.223 Savage or Howa??

stretchmiester · 12-10-2006, 02:14 PM

Hey guys, first off I would like to say thanks for all the info I've been reading on here, I have learned a lot. I am looking into getting a .223 rifle. This is my first rifle, I always shot other people's guns, but never had my own. I'm surely not a pro, still a novice by all means. I am looking into a Savage 11FXP4 223 AT Package or a Howa Lightning with 3-9x42 scope 223 (or basically any other Savage with a scope). Any recommendations or experience with these rifles? I will mainly be shooting at a range and maybe 5% of the time shooting small game. I am set on the .223, but I am trying to decide which gun. Also, both of these packages go for around $400 (walmart & Jim's sporting goods online), is there any other places that offer a better price for these, or where could I find them cheaper? Thanks in advance. Steve Looking to spend no more than 500 bones.

lefty o · 12-10-2006, 02:29 PM

my advice is to not buy a package. buy the bare gun, then buy a quality scope- you'll be money ahead in the long run.

rdnckhnter · 12-10-2006, 04:51 PM

yeah definetly dont buy the package get the gun like lefty said

stretchmiester · 12-10-2006, 07:14 PM

All of the guns I saw without a package (Savage at least) were like 500-600 bucks....Where can I find one cheaper?

BattleRifleG3 · 12-11-2006, 01:26 PM

Using the 223 cartridge, I wouldn't be as worried about the cheaper scopes in the package guns. Around 7mm-08/270/308 I would start worrying, but 223/243/22-250/etc should be fine.

That doesn't mean you shoudl get the package, just that it's not as bad an idea as with the heavier rounds.

67pt67 · 12-12-2006, 07:48 PM

i recoomend the savage i have a .223 savage and have never had a problem i can pick off prairie dogs at 250-400yards the 400 yard end has only happened a few times but thats just the way the trajectory on a .223 is after that range, but overall a great varmint gun

at4rxj · 12-13-2006, 12:14 PM

The package will be OK to start off with. You'll be much better off though putting a nice scope on it.

I vote to get the combo and save up for a nice scope. I've never had much experience with the Howa rifles, but have heard nothing bad. I have heard very much good feedback from the Savage rifles though. Especially with the accu-trigger.

woodster · 12-13-2006, 01:16 PM

I'm partial to the Savage which I own. I have the 10FP model, heavy barrel, 24" barrel, 1:9 twist and synthetic stock. The accu-trigger which is adjustable is a great featue. I use it largely for target and varmint hunting. Savage Arms are reasonably priced and consider getting the rifle first and then adding a scope. The .223 creates the best knock down energy for varmint in the .222 family. The next caliber up you may wish to consider would be .243 W. This will give you more versitility in hunting. I have the Remingtom 700VLS which I use for coyote and bobcat and can be used on larger game.

rcortinas · 12-19-2006, 07:16 AM

To be honest i have shot most of these models and they are good, but have you considered the new Remington 700 SPS rifle. For about $425-$450. Very reliable and straight shooting.

felix cortinas · 12-24-2006, 03:25 PM

Hey rcortinas,there are not many cortinas out there, if you are from Texas like me we are probably descended from the family that came from Spain in the late 1700's, fought for Texas Independence and the Confederacy. I live in Luling, where you from? as for firearms my favorites are the rifles in .22-250, .308, AR15, AR10, and pistols in .45 auto and .45 colt single action.

rcortinas · 12-26-2006, 07:50 AM

I'm from Bay City, Tx. We probably are related down the way. All the calibers you said are some of my faves as well. Have you tried the .223wssm. It has gotten a bad rap, but i have a Winchester model 70 Coyote chambered in it and it is one of the best shooting rifles i own. I got it for under 600.00

johnboy1948 · 12-31-2006, 08:09 PM

Stretchmeister,
Get yourself the Savage police model 223 with 24" heavy barrel. My 308 police with 20" barrel shoots 3/4" (5 shots) at 100 yards with reloads; on some days the bullet holes all touch each other. About a $500 gun. If you are on a really tight budget give the H&R Ultra model 223 single shot a try, about $250; mine shoots 1" (5 shots) at 100 yards with reloads. You don't need an expensive scope to start with; just remember that the chinese scopes (cheap) don't have very precise adjustment characteristics of the crosshairs); but you can sight them in to shoot tight groups. Sometimes the Point of Impact will change when you adjust the scope power or the parallax. If you are going to have just ONE gun, save up your money and buy a good scope.

frozentorso · 01-01-2007, 05:18 PM

That second to last sentence is presicely why you SHOULD NOT EVER buy a cheap scope. I agree with the last sentence.

Zen900 · 01-01-2007, 07:30 PM

Heck I think you'll love either brand in .223. I tried to find a Howa though and there were none to be seen. I even checked Davidsons online and the .223s were out so apparently people buy them pretty fast. They must work.

frozentorso · 01-24-2007, 09:47 PM

A question was posed to David Petzel in the new Field and Stream about building your own rifle from parts. His answer was 1) buy a used rifle, a new stock and have the barrel and action re-blued; 2) Buy a Dakota barreled action for $1800; 3) His personal advice, buy a Howa barreled action for around $400. Anyone with doubts about Howa should pick up a copy. I wish I had the magazine handy to quote him. He's always had a good opinion of Howa(pronounced hoe-ah).
I just bought a new Real-Tree stock from the bargain section at Cabelas for my son's Howa .243. $50! That gun is such a tack driver that I hauled off and put a new Nikon 6x18x40 on it for my son to use on coyotes. Its just as exiting as buying a new gun. Gonna sight it in Friday and start killin next new moon.

reloader · 02-04-2007, 04:20 PM

i would choose a savage anyday they are a very good gun...but i just got my stevens modle 200 short action 223 that is made by savage you can pick one up for like 2oo bucks. i love myen and wouldent even trade it for a 204.. im cuttin bullet holes a 200yrds but i reload my own shells... the savage and stevens both have a 1 and 9 twist rate but the savage and stevens shoot the same just the stevens look cheeper thats all.. hope this will help you out! reloader.

milosity · 04-01-2007, 05:05 PM

Hey Frozen, what kind of howa rifle exactly does your son have "the tack driver"? I'm glad i found this thread, i'm currently doing some research on a 22-250. i've definetley decided on a howa, but I'm torn between the Varmint set up (not the varminter) and the lightning. also torn between the heavy and light barrels. i'm having a little trouble finding some reviews on the light howa barrels but have read some great reviews on the heavy. definitley going to be used for yotes, but i'm leaning towards more of a walk-about rifle. not a whole lotta open fields here in CA anymore.
MILO

Zen900 · 04-01-2007, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milosity

Hey Frozen, what kind of howa rifle exactly does your son have "the tack driver"? I'm glad i found this thread, i'm currently doing some research on a 22-250. i've definetley decided on a howa.....
MILO

I have a Stevens .223 that does .5" @ 100yds. I wanted a Howa but there were none anywhere to be had in Mar 06. I had to look a few months before I found a Stevens .223. They are both hot sellers in my neck of the woods and not shelf items. The Howa is a full pound heavier than my Stevens. Yea the Stevens has a cheap plastic stock but it looks neato after you camo spray paint it. If it's accuracy you're after then the Savage/Stevens meet the bill. When you go to purchase this Howa 22-250 you may find there is a waiting list.

frozentorso · 04-01-2007, 07:40 PM

Mine's a 1500 .243. Its older, before the Lightning tag. See if you can get a .243 any quicker. Its versatile as a varmint gun and a deer gun. The Hornady 58 gr. V-max Moly gets spit out at 3750 fps, and zeroed at 200 yards, it drops 5 inches at 300. Pretty flat. And only half an inch more than a .22-250. Check out Hornady

Midas · 04-01-2007, 08:54 PM

You really can't go wrong with either, I own both brands, and they are accurate rifles, and very reliable

12-10-2006, 02:14 PM	#1
stretchmiester Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 3	.223 Savage or Howa?? Hey guys, first off I would like to say thanks for all the info I've been reading on here, I have learned a lot. I am looking into getting a .223 rifle. This is my first rifle, I always shot other people's guns, but never had my own. I'm surely not a pro, still a novice by all means. I am looking into a Savage 11FXP4 223 AT Package or a Howa Lightning with 3-9x42 scope 223 (or basically any other Savage with a scope). Any recommendations or experience with these rifles? I will mainly be shooting at a range and maybe 5% of the time shooting small game. I am set on the .223, but I am trying to decide which gun. Also, both of these packages go for around $400 (walmart & Jim's sporting goods online), is there any other places that offer a better price for these, or where could I find them cheaper? Thanks in advance. Steve Looking to spend no more than 500 bones.

12-10-2006, 04:51 PM	#3
rdnckhnter Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: pennsylvania and new jersey right on the bored Posts: 182	yeah definetly dont buy the package get the gun like lefty said __________________ My long hair dont cover my redneck and u know what im ok with that

12-11-2006, 01:26 PM	#5
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,401 Images: 13	Using the 223 cartridge, I wouldn't be as worried about the cheaper scopes in the package guns. Around 7mm-08/270/308 I would start worrying, but 223/243/22-250/etc should be fine. That doesn't mean you shoudl get the package, just that it's not as bad an idea as with the heavier rounds. __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf

12-26-2006, 07:50 AM	#11
rcortinas Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 25	I'm from Bay City, Tx. We probably are related down the way. All the calibers you said are some of my faves as well. Have you tried the .223wssm. It has gotten a bad rap, but i have a Winchester model 70 Coyote chambered in it and it is one of the best shooting rifles i own. I got it for under 600.00 Last edited by rcortinas; 12-26-2006 at 07:52 AM.

01-01-2007, 05:18 PM	#13
frozentorso Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: North East Texas Posts: 592	That second to last sentence is presicely why you SHOULD NOT EVER buy a cheap scope. I agree with the last sentence. __________________ "I'm your huckleberry. Thats just my game!" Last edited by frozentorso; 01-01-2007 at 05:20 PM.

12-10-2006, 02:29 PM	#2
lefty o Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: mn Posts: 4,789	my advice is to not buy a package. buy the bare gun, then buy a quality scope- you'll be money ahead in the long run.

12-10-2006, 07:14 PM	#4
stretchmiester Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 3	All of the guns I saw without a package (Savage at least) were like 500-600 bucks....Where can I find one cheaper?

12-12-2006, 07:48 PM	#6
67pt67 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5	i recoomend the savage i have a .223 savage and have never had a problem i can pick off prairie dogs at 250-400yards the 400 yard end has only happened a few times but thats just the way the trajectory on a .223 is after that range, but overall a great varmint gun

12-13-2006, 12:14 PM	#7
at4rxj Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 855 Images: 10	The package will be OK to start off with. You'll be much better off though putting a nice scope on it. I vote to get the combo and save up for a nice scope. I've never had much experience with the Howa rifles, but have heard nothing bad. I have heard very much good feedback from the Savage rifles though. Especially with the accu-trigger.

12-13-2006, 01:16 PM	#8
woodster Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: High Desert, California Posts: 433	I'm partial to the Savage which I own. I have the 10FP model, heavy barrel, 24" barrel, 1:9 twist and synthetic stock. The accu-trigger which is adjustable is a great featue. I use it largely for target and varmint hunting. Savage Arms are reasonably priced and consider getting the rifle first and then adding a scope. The .223 creates the best knock down energy for varmint in the .222 family. The next caliber up you may wish to consider would be .243 W. This will give you more versitility in hunting. I have the Remingtom 700VLS which I use for coyote and bobcat and can be used on larger game.

12-19-2006, 07:16 AM	#9
rcortinas Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 25	To be honest i have shot most of these models and they are good, but have you considered the new Remington 700 SPS rifle. For about $425-$450. Very reliable and straight shooting.

12-24-2006, 03:25 PM	#10
felix cortinas Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 144	Hey rcortinas,there are not many cortinas out there, if you are from Texas like me we are probably descended from the family that came from Spain in the late 1700's, fought for Texas Independence and the Confederacy. I live in Luling, where you from? as for firearms my favorites are the rifles in .22-250, .308, AR15, AR10, and pistols in .45 auto and .45 colt single action.

12-31-2006, 08:09 PM	#12
johnboy1948 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 3	Stretchmeister, Get yourself the Savage police model 223 with 24" heavy barrel. My 308 police with 20" barrel shoots 3/4" (5 shots) at 100 yards with reloads; on some days the bullet holes all touch each other. About a $500 gun. If you are on a really tight budget give the H&R Ultra model 223 single shot a try, about $250; mine shoots 1" (5 shots) at 100 yards with reloads. You don't need an expensive scope to start with; just remember that the chinese scopes (cheap) don't have very precise adjustment characteristics of the crosshairs); but you can sight them in to shoot tight groups. Sometimes the Point of Impact will change when you adjust the scope power or the parallax. If you are going to have just ONE gun, save up your money and buy a good scope.

01-01-2007, 07:30 PM	#14
Zen900 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 700	Heck I think you'll love either brand in .223. I tried to find a Howa though and there were none to be seen. I even checked Davidsons online and the .223s were out so apparently people buy them pretty fast. They must work.

01-24-2007, 09:47 PM	#15
frozentorso Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: North East Texas Posts: 592	A question was posed to David Petzel in the new Field and Stream about building your own rifle from parts. His answer was 1) buy a used rifle, a new stock and have the barrel and action re-blued; 2) Buy a Dakota barreled action for $1800; 3) His personal advice, buy a Howa barreled action for around $400. Anyone with doubts about Howa should pick up a copy. I wish I had the magazine handy to quote him. He's always had a good opinion of Howa(pronounced hoe-ah). I just bought a new Real-Tree stock from the bargain section at Cabelas for my son's Howa .243. $50! That gun is such a tack driver that I hauled off and put a new Nikon 6x18x40 on it for my son to use on coyotes. Its just as exiting as buying a new gun. Gonna sight it in Friday and start killin next new moon. __________________ "I'm your huckleberry. Thats just my game!"

02-04-2007, 04:20 PM	#16
reloader Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Middleburg Posts: 27	223 i would choose a savage anyday they are a very good gun...but i just got my stevens modle 200 short action 223 that is made by savage you can pick one up for like 2oo bucks. i love myen and wouldent even trade it for a 204.. im cuttin bullet holes a 200yrds but i reload my own shells... the savage and stevens both have a 1 and 9 twist rate but the savage and stevens shoot the same just the stevens look cheeper thats all.. hope this will help you out! reloader.

04-01-2007, 05:05 PM	#17
milosity Registered User Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1	Hey Frozen, what kind of howa rifle exactly does your son have "the tack driver"? I'm glad i found this thread, i'm currently doing some research on a 22-250. i've definetley decided on a howa, but I'm torn between the Varmint set up (not the varminter) and the lightning. also torn between the heavy and light barrels. i'm having a little trouble finding some reviews on the light howa barrels but have read some great reviews on the heavy. definitley going to be used for yotes, but i'm leaning towards more of a walk-about rifle. not a whole lotta open fields here in CA anymore. MILO

04-01-2007, 08:54 PM	#20
Midas Troll B' Gone Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Springdale, Arkansas Posts: 3,800 Images: 2 Blog Entries: 6	You really can't go wrong with either, I own both brands, and they are accurate rifles, and very reliable __________________ "Recoil lasts for a second, gravity lasts forever"