.308 overkill for coyotes?

[Onesonek]

Originally Posted by Silent Shooter

Nobody in their right mind would shoot a 50gr bullet at those yardages. BR guys use a 90gr BT VLD to reach those yardages. The only thing you are going to hit with a 50gr is wind and then dirt.

I never said it was ideal. The matter of the question was comparative accuracy. The point was that the .223 isn't necessarily less accurate than the .308. Now you and I both know that if some one is going to shoot at those and longer ranges consistantly, most if not all, will use a more sofisicated setup all together.
I said I wouldn't hesitate the shot with .223. But then it's not something I would do or take lightly at those ranges without being well schooled and practiced, no matter what the round is. I would however setup differently if those ranges were to be shot on a regular basis. The fact remains it's possible, probable is another matter, dependant entirely upon an individuals skill and knowledge.

Dave

[Onesonek]

Originally Posted by Blackrock

It took me six trys to hit a 12" gong at 800 yards with my .222 Rem. Had to hold over by maybe 6 feet and left windage about the same before i could walk it in. Mr Coyote would be long gone by then.

My buddy can consistently whack that same gong with his M14 .308 with iron sights.

Sounds like your buddy has very intimate knowledge of his load andis well skilled with with his M14. Very nice shooting indeed!
I don't hold off a target and "walk" it in, thats what the target turrets are for. Along with the use of your practice notes and or ballistic program and hand held puters. Holding off the target is pretty much is a waste of ammo.

Dave

[Silent Shooter]

There is no comparison of accuracy. You cannot hit the target with a 50gr .223 at 750-800 yards. Sure you might luck out and hit it by accident, but to claim that you can hit anything smaller than a truck (much less a yote) with any level of consistency is a joke. May I ask what rifle you are (supposedly) doing this with???? Be detailed as possible.

[Silent Shooter]

Hey Sam, I have a benchrest 17HMR that shoots 5 inch groups at 1000 for sell if you want it. I will sell it real cheap...

[Onesonek]

Originally Posted by Silent Shooter

There is no comparison of accuracy. You cannot hit the target with a 50gr .223 at 750-800 yards. Sure you might luck out and hit it by accident, but to claim that you can hit anything smaller than a truck (much less a yote) with any level of consistency is a joke. May I ask what rifle you are (supposedly) doing this with???? Be detailed as possible.

So you're saying the .223 can't and the .308 can?
I didnt say I was doing it with anything,,,I said it was ballistically possible when compared to the 308.

[Silent Shooter]

I am saying that if I were to stand 800 yards away from someone shooting at me with a .233 loaded with 50gn bullets and I was shooting at them with a .308 loaded with 168gn BTHP I would feel safe as a bug in a rug and they would feel dead.

[ArkansasHunter]

I didn't read all the posts, but I'd like to say if you like the 308 then by all means
buy one and use it.
You'll pay more for ammo but how much ammo are you going to shoot on an outting ???
Say you buy (1) box of 308 ammo, how long do you recon that 1 box will last you ?

I'd say you'll get several outtings with it because how many otes are you going to harvest every outting ?

On a good day would it be fair to say 2 to 3 ?

Several here mentioned 223 caliber which would be my choice due to it's accuratcy,
ammo costing less, less kick and report.

Only problem though I'd have to buy a rifle in 223 and I ain't going to buy a rifle in 223 caliber.

Fortunitly I have a very accurate 308 in my gun cabinet, so if I was to take up coyote shooting it would be the rifle I'd use.
And it would be a Jim Dandy too, need I mention you could hunt bigger game with it .

So spring for the 308 due to it's excellent accuratcy and ability to hunt Bigger Game with it too !

The moral to my post is don't let the cost of ammo be a factor in useing the 308 because like most hunters you'll some times come home from hunting with out ever fireing a shot.
I suppose our sub-conisous mind cause's us to think when we head out to varmint or just hunt.
Were going to shoot our guns until the barrel melt's which just ain't so...A.H

[samuel]

Originally Posted by ArkansasHunter

WOW I've got the Big Head Now ! I didn't know 1000 yard shots was hard to make !!
I do it all the time !!! Honest !!!!...A.H

P.S. Can I win money makeing 1000 yard shots and futher ?

[ArkansasHunter]

Samuel I never said I hit anythang LMAO !!!!!!!

[Onesonek]

Yes with that bullet you would gain a 2.35 moa advantage in drift. Significant? yes,,,making it an impossibilty for the other, no!
But the target style bullet wasn't really part of the initial discussion.
Conjecture of personal beliefs out of context of what was stated, really proves nothing.
Saying something can't be done, when it is physically and mathmatically possible, is pessimistic at best and a quiters attitude at the worst.
Personally with 2.35 moa difference I wouldn't feel safe in front of either.
And wouldn't be just real smart to think otherwise.
Doping the wind from zero to 4moa, or 6.5 moa, has little to do with accuracy, only the shooters skill.

[Silent Shooter]

The 50gn .233 will have 28.76 feet or 41.2 MOA drop at 800 yards and only has 90.4 ft/lbs of energy. The 168gn .308 will have 13.675 feet of drop or 19.6 MOA with 962.7 ft/lbs of energy. A .22lr has more energy at 100 yards than a .223 50gn bullet does at 800. If you are saying that you regularly and consistently shoot 'yotes at 800 with a .223 50gn then I would have to say you are mistaken.

[Onesonek]

Originally Posted by Silent Shooter

The 50gn .233 will have 28.76 feet or 41.2 MOA drop at 800 yards and only has 90.4 ft/lbs of energy. The 168gn .308 will have 13.675 feet of drop or 19.6 MOA with 962.7 ft/lbs of energy.

What 50 gr are you using here,,,and are you using the same scope settings,,, and at what speeds??? I'm not doubting you, just it's not looking like the same parameters. Be that as it may,the RSI program using the 50gr NBT which was originally used, run at 3400 fps BC of .238 with a 10mph cross , set up with both rounds using the same 3" pbr and scope height with atmospheric setting the same also,,,,we are close enough on the 168 gr, that the differences aren't worth mentioning for all intents and purposes. I actually came up 18.45 moa drop for the 168.
The 50 gr. however, is very different from what I ran and found for comparision.
What I came up with for the 50gr.NBT are. 14.5 moa drop 6.35 moa drift and 305 ft/lbs at 800yds.
You can change the bullets/parameters to spin this thread any way you want. Which is just changing the context of where it all started..... Is the .308 inherently more accurate than the .223? I contend that it isn't necssarily so.
In reality if you want to compare them to smallest degree, they both have about the same expansion ratio. So outside of energy levels being different, you run bullets of like SD and BC,, they peform about the same.
Up to this point we been running the .223's speed against the .308's BC, not really an accurate comparison.

[samuel]

Originally Posted by ArkansasHunter

Samuel I never said I hit anythang LMAO !!!!!!!

I had something written under your post but I don't see it and forgot what it was so I guess I'll write this:I have to shoot things much closer because if I shot something that far away nowadays I might not be able to get to it in my lifetime. sam.

[samuel]

Originally Posted by Onesonek

Sounds like your buddy has very intimate knowledge of his load andis well skilled with with his M14. Very nice shooting indeed!
I don't hold off a target and "walk" it in, thats what the target turrets are for. Along with the use of your practice notes and or ballistic program and hand held puters. Holding off the target is pretty much is a waste of ammo.

Dave

It's good to know that every sniper and a lot of hunters have pretty much wasted their ammo.I am delighted to have you set us straight and prove that snipers are lying or just had accidents. sam.

[samuel]

Originally Posted by Silent Shooter

Hey Sam, I have a benchrest 17HMR that shoots 5 inch groups at 1000 for sell if you want it. I will sell it real cheap...

Could it be that you made a typo and added two extra 0,s? sam.

[Onesonek]

Originally Posted by samuel

It's good to know that every sniper and a lot of hunters have pretty much wasted their ammo.I am delighted to have you set us straight and prove that snipers are lying or just had accidents. sam.

Where did I imply anybody was lying,,,,and honestly how many snipers on a mission would send mulitiple rounds down range to see where they're at do you know.. All I meant, is that walking a bunch of rounds to the target using hold off is inefficient. In my opinion, it's much better to walk them to the target using hold on. Naturally during the learning phase of any new round/load, even for the most experienced, is going to take practice. No disrepect was meant,,,Sorry if anyone, specially Blackrock took it that way.
Thats why when it comes to big game, I promote PBR sight-ins, and hunt within that range. Hold-off just is more difficult for accuracy.
And Sam,,,I would think you'd be tired of being all wet,,,cuz your sarcasim is nothing more than pi**in in the wind as far as I'm concerned.
Dave

[rdale501]

Originally Posted by billy

thats comforting.
from what some say i thought most folks could see what color the elks eyes were at 1000 yards.

Blue eyes. Elks eyes are blue at 1000 yards.

[rdale501]

Saying something can't be done, when it is physically and mathmatically possible, is pessimistic at best and a quiters attitude at the worst.


I work in a business where engineers and draftsmen calculate things out on paper and tell us how it can be, and what is possible. It almost never works out like they plan it on paper. Allmost everything has to be tweeked and modified in order to work in the real world. But it looks good on paper don't cut it. Without good men with experience working things out with their hands, the paper pushers and number crunchers would be out of a job. I think that about says it for me...

[Onesonek]

Originally Posted by rdale501

Saying something can't be done, when it is physically and mathmatically possible, is pessimistic at best and a quiters attitude at the worst.


I work in a business where engineers and draftsmen calculate things out on paper and tell us how it can be, and what is possible. It almost never works out like they plan it on paper. Allmost everything has to be tweeked and modified in order to work in the real world. But it looks good on paper don't cut it. Without good men with experience working things out with their hands, the paper pushers and number crunchers would be out of a job. I think that about says it for me...

And I agree totally as I too have worked with a number of engineers over the years, and yes tweeking while not scientific, is darn near a rule you could set in stone.
Tweeking a load is part of the process, and shooting is the only way to do it.

Dave

[billy]

Originally Posted by rdale501

Blue eyes. Elks eyes are blue at 1000 yards.

what?
one blew thataway and the other blew thisaway?