New to forum and shooting help!

bunce · 10-09-2008, 11:28 PM

Hi guys, im new to this forum, and relitivly new to shooting. I have been shooting for about a year on my farmw with licenced shooters. I have been using the remmington 700 .223 vermint rifle with a 8-24x25 scope. I have been able to shoot kangaroos in the head from 230 metres but its almost always been a fluke. I have heard recent reports that people have sighted Pather's in the hills neer my farm in northern Victoria, Australia, and was wondering if i could use my .223 varmint to kill an averaged size panther, female or male? Does anyone know if there is a size difference or a way to tell from a shooting varntage spot? will i need a higher caliber gun?

Thanks for your help guys

Cyrano · 10-10-2008, 07:46 AM

Welcome to the forum, bunce.

Re: using the .223 cartidge on panthers: I wouldn't. Here in the USA, the .223 is looked at as a varminting cartridge. There are many states that won't allow it for deer hunting. I think you need something heavier.

Were I you, I'd be looking at something in the military-caliber class, .303 British, .308 Win/7.62 NATO, 7.62x54R, .30-06, for a rifle to use against a panther. You want something with enough power to get it done with one shot, since one shot is all you are going to get. You don't want to be tracking a wounded cat through cover.

Gopher3604x4 · 10-10-2008, 10:05 AM

I you cant just go out and buy a new rifle you can use the .223 but it would be a good idea to look ant the ammo you use. You want to use the heaviest bullet that your rifling will stabilize so you dont loose acurisy, and a bullet that will stay together after contact. I would go with a deer type round.

AllAlaskan · 10-10-2008, 10:48 AM

for a big cat i wouldnt use any thing that small. like Cyrano said you really dont want to be tracking a wounded pissed off big cat through thick cover. I would use something like a .270 or bigger if it was me.

bunce · 10-11-2008, 03:29 AM

ok, well i dont have ready access to new wepons as it IS Australia we are talking about here, no rights to bare arms :P. If i wanted to get the best possible ammo for a .223 to shoot a panther, could some one recommend an ammo and give me a link to a website please? Are the platic redtips from winchester the ones your talking about? or somthing different? i have been using a low level federal for roos, who seems to be, at times, really hard to take down, but i manage.

thanks for your help so far

AllAlaskan · 10-11-2008, 08:31 AM

If you place the shot well in the head Im pretty sure it would go down. Not to familure with ammo for that gun but im sure some one else will reply some info.

O and welcome to the forum

Gopher3604x4 · 10-11-2008, 01:00 PM

If you reloar I would use the 70gr barnesbullet TSX BT, you can look them up at www.barnesbullets.com if not you can just use Winchester 55gr sp.

bunce · 10-12-2008, 01:22 AM

the bullets on the website are not in a shell, im guessing that they are when you buy them, or are they some special type of bullet, forgive me but im young in the game.

ArkansasHunter · 10-12-2008, 01:39 AM

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one on here that can't spell worth a dearn !!! LOL

Sounds like you've had some good practise with your 223 rifle, so if it's all you have then find a mite heavier bullet and give it your best shot.

Good luck and it would'nt hurt to have a friend around with a rifle for back up just in case he/she is needed.

Why can't you buy another rifle ?...A.H

dannyd · 10-12-2008, 02:28 PM

You should be able to take him down whith the 223. But the real question is how do you find him.

Gopher3604x4 · 10-13-2008, 07:43 AM

You should carry a 357mag or so for backup. you dont reload I see. do you have a friend the does?

bluealtered · 10-13-2008, 07:51 AM

All my hunting is predator hunting, i live in an area that is overrun with mountain lions. My favorite rifle for that and yotes is a little 16" ar-15.

The .223 will work well for for a lion out to a certain range, i wouldn't try further than 200yds. and as stated above, bullet weight and type is the key. Every rifle has a bullet it works best with, try as many different bullet weights as you can to see what works best.

I use the ar because of the heavy brush i'm hunting in, the rifles small with a fast follow up shot when needed. The .223 is on the small side for lions, but works well with the proper placement, in the 100yd range, 200yd max.

You should understand that the cat will be hunting you as well, and it's best to have something at your back at ALL times, don't ever forget that you are just part of the food chain to it.

It's best to have a good pistol with you at all times that you can use very fast, i find a shoulder hoster works best for me. I try to sit with a large tree or bush or rock at my back at all times, one trick you can use to see whats behind you is a little stickon truck mirror on an ace bandage, slipped over your hand. You need to remember that movement is the key to predator hunting, it will key on any movement no matter how small, so keep still.

In this area, they have started hunting in pairs, so the one you see may not be the one to worry about, (again, something at your back, always). It's best to bring the cat to you, that can be done with different types of calls, go to www.predatormasters.com to learn more. blue

bunce · 10-14-2008, 05:37 PM

Wow, thanks heeps gusy, i have learnt so much from you. im taking it those bullets are if you want to put them back into the shells yourself?

I will be going with a friend btw blue, and he will have his .30-06, if i go with another guy there will be a .243 also.

also this is Australia, there is no constitution that says we have the right to bare arms! so we need to get high level licenses to own a hand gun, so thats out of the question. Same with the semi-austomatic tactical rifles :S.

Does any one recomed for or against baiting it with meat? or is there somthing wrong with that in terms of the threat of the animal?

thanks again, your being such a great help!
bunce.

owen762 · 10-14-2008, 06:16 PM

mmm big cats in aus i want to catch me one then hurl it in the office of the csiro and say 'now do you believe them' did you hear about the big cat a man shot in gippsland it was featured in the shooters magazine about 18 months ago he shot it with a 270 winchester from memory and sorta destroyed the cats front end the dna test confirmed this was 98% positive for domestic cat it was just really big it had a 65 cm (25.6 inch) tail IMHO bait them and kill them do whatever you can its a feral species

bunce · 10-14-2008, 07:48 PM

yeh i want its head for a trophy

hard to find a taxidermist now days though, know of any in melbourne or neer strathbogie? Owens did you also see the A Cureent Affair thing on the black mountain cheetars, panthers and pumas in northern Victoria? thats what i want to hunt. Another question is, is a .270 alot bigger than a .223? also, really stupid question, but ive never been told, how do you calculate the calibre of a gun? is it diamiter of the bullet or somthing, i just dont get it.

Again, Owen, id love to prove all of them right and wrong! haha

bunce · 10-14-2008, 07:53 PM

Owens, i would love to go prove the CSIRO wrong, and all those who believe in them right, as i used to be a sceptic, but not anymore. Also, i have a stupid question, but is a .270 much bigger than a .223, and how do you calculate the caliber of a bullet/gun, like is it the diamiter of the bullet or somthing?
thanks
bunce.

sell33 · 10-14-2008, 09:42 PM

223 shoots a true .224 cal bullet, while a 270 shoots a .277 cal bullet, so it is about .043 of an inch bigger...a fairly significant size. you might be metric, so 223 is 5.56 mm and 270 is around 6.8 i believe. Basically i a bigger diameter yes, so more mass and a bigger wound channel...

i don't see anything wrong with baiting a big cat. good luck with the hunt.

bunce · 10-14-2008, 09:50 PM

ok sell, but how did you work that out, and can different caliber bullets be used in different caliber guns, because i think ive seen that done before, or am i wrong? thanks so far.

Gopher3604x4 · 10-17-2008, 11:50 AM

Never shoot a round in a gun that it wos not intended for!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NEVER EVER EVER THRY THAT!!!!

Gopher3604x4 · 10-17-2008, 11:52 AM

Look for some ammo with a picture of a deer on it in .223 that should be good for your cat.

10-09-2008, 11:28 PM	#1
bunce Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 24	New to forum and shooting help! Hi guys, im new to this forum, and relitivly new to shooting. I have been shooting for about a year on my farmw with licenced shooters. I have been using the remmington 700 .223 vermint rifle with a 8-24x25 scope. I have been able to shoot kangaroos in the head from 230 metres but its almost always been a fluke. I have heard recent reports that people have sighted Pather's in the hills neer my farm in northern Victoria, Australia, and was wondering if i could use my .223 varmint to kill an averaged size panther, female or male? Does anyone know if there is a size difference or a way to tell from a shooting varntage spot? will i need a higher caliber gun? Thanks for your help guys

10-10-2008, 07:46 AM	#2
Cyrano Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: New York Posts: 3,044	Welcome to the forum, bunce. Re: using the .223 cartidge on panthers: I wouldn't. Here in the USA, the .223 is looked at as a varminting cartridge. There are many states that won't allow it for deer hunting. I think you need something heavier. Were I you, I'd be looking at something in the military-caliber class, .303 British, .308 Win/7.62 NATO, 7.62x54R, .30-06, for a rifle to use against a panther. You want something with enough power to get it done with one shot, since one shot is all you are going to get. You don't want to be tracking a wounded cat through cover.

10-10-2008, 10:05 AM	#3
Gopher3604x4 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: 1/2 mi. off the dirt road. Posts: 111	I you cant just go out and buy a new rifle you can use the .223 but it would be a good idea to look ant the ammo you use. You want to use the heaviest bullet that your rifling will stabilize so you dont loose acurisy, and a bullet that will stay together after contact. I would go with a deer type round.

10-10-2008, 10:48 AM	#4
AllAlaskan Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: In HOT North East Texas Missing COLD South Central Alaska Posts: 822	for a big cat i wouldnt use any thing that small. like Cyrano said you really dont want to be tracking a wounded pissed off big cat through thick cover. I would use something like a .270 or bigger if it was me.

10-11-2008, 03:29 AM	#5
bunce Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 24	ok, well i dont have ready access to new wepons as it IS Australia we are talking about here, no rights to bare arms :P. If i wanted to get the best possible ammo for a .223 to shoot a panther, could some one recommend an ammo and give me a link to a website please? Are the platic redtips from winchester the ones your talking about? or somthing different? i have been using a low level federal for roos, who seems to be, at times, really hard to take down, but i manage. thanks for your help so far

10-11-2008, 08:31 AM	#6
AllAlaskan Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: In HOT North East Texas Missing COLD South Central Alaska Posts: 822	If you place the shot well in the head Im pretty sure it would go down. Not to familure with ammo for that gun but im sure some one else will reply some info. O and welcome to the forum

10-11-2008, 01:00 PM	#7
Gopher3604x4 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: 1/2 mi. off the dirt road. Posts: 111	If you reloar I would use the 70gr barnesbullet TSX BT, you can look them up at www.barnesbullets.com if not you can just use Winchester 55gr sp.

10-12-2008, 01:22 AM	#8
bunce Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 24	the bullets on the website are not in a shell, im guessing that they are when you buy them, or are they some special type of bullet, forgive me but im young in the game.

10-12-2008, 01:39 AM	#9
ArkansasHunter Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: South Arkansas Posts: 10,998	I'm glad to see I'm not the only one on here that can't spell worth a dearn !!! LOL Sounds like you've had some good practise with your 223 rifle, so if it's all you have then find a mite heavier bullet and give it your best shot. Good luck and it would'nt hurt to have a friend around with a rifle for back up just in case he/she is needed. Why can't you buy another rifle ?...A.H

10-12-2008, 02:28 PM	#10
dannyd Registered User Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 7	You should be able to take him down whith the 223. But the real question is how do you find him.

10-13-2008, 07:43 AM	#11
Gopher3604x4 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: 1/2 mi. off the dirt road. Posts: 111	You should carry a 357mag or so for backup. you dont reload I see. do you have a friend the does?

10-13-2008, 07:51 AM	#12
bluealtered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: outback oregon Posts: 54	All my hunting is predator hunting, i live in an area that is overrun with mountain lions. My favorite rifle for that and yotes is a little 16" ar-15. The .223 will work well for for a lion out to a certain range, i wouldn't try further than 200yds. and as stated above, bullet weight and type is the key. Every rifle has a bullet it works best with, try as many different bullet weights as you can to see what works best. I use the ar because of the heavy brush i'm hunting in, the rifles small with a fast follow up shot when needed. The .223 is on the small side for lions, but works well with the proper placement, in the 100yd range, 200yd max. You should understand that the cat will be hunting you as well, and it's best to have something at your back at ALL times, don't ever forget that you are just part of the food chain to it. It's best to have a good pistol with you at all times that you can use very fast, i find a shoulder hoster works best for me. I try to sit with a large tree or bush or rock at my back at all times, one trick you can use to see whats behind you is a little stickon truck mirror on an ace bandage, slipped over your hand. You need to remember that movement is the key to predator hunting, it will key on any movement no matter how small, so keep still. In this area, they have started hunting in pairs, so the one you see may not be the one to worry about, (again, something at your back, always). It's best to bring the cat to you, that can be done with different types of calls, go to www.predatormasters.com to learn more. blue

10-14-2008, 05:37 PM	#13
bunce Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 24	Wow, thanks heeps gusy, i have learnt so much from you. im taking it those bullets are if you want to put them back into the shells yourself? I will be going with a friend btw blue, and he will have his .30-06, if i go with another guy there will be a .243 also. also this is Australia, there is no constitution that says we have the right to bare arms! so we need to get high level licenses to own a hand gun, so thats out of the question. Same with the semi-austomatic tactical rifles :S. Does any one recomed for or against baiting it with meat? or is there somthing wrong with that in terms of the threat of the animal? thanks again, your being such a great help! bunce.

10-14-2008, 06:16 PM	#14
owen762 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: nsw australia Posts: 139	mmm big cats in aus i want to catch me one then hurl it in the office of the csiro and say 'now do you believe them' did you hear about the big cat a man shot in gippsland it was featured in the shooters magazine about 18 months ago he shot it with a 270 winchester from memory and sorta destroyed the cats front end the dna test confirmed this was 98% positive for domestic cat it was just really big it had a 65 cm (25.6 inch) tail IMHO bait them and kill them do whatever you can its a feral species

10-14-2008, 07:48 PM	#15
bunce Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 24	yeh i want its head for a trophy hard to find a taxidermist now days though, know of any in melbourne or neer strathbogie? Owens did you also see the A Cureent Affair thing on the black mountain cheetars, panthers and pumas in northern Victoria? thats what i want to hunt. Another question is, is a .270 alot bigger than a .223? also, really stupid question, but ive never been told, how do you calculate the calibre of a gun? is it diamiter of the bullet or somthing, i just dont get it. Again, Owen, id love to prove all of them right and wrong! haha

10-14-2008, 07:53 PM	#16
bunce Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 24	Owens, i would love to go prove the CSIRO wrong, and all those who believe in them right, as i used to be a sceptic, but not anymore. Also, i have a stupid question, but is a .270 much bigger than a .223, and how do you calculate the caliber of a bullet/gun, like is it the diamiter of the bullet or somthing? thanks bunce.

10-14-2008, 09:42 PM	#17
sell33 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,399	223 shoots a true .224 cal bullet, while a 270 shoots a .277 cal bullet, so it is about .043 of an inch bigger...a fairly significant size. you might be metric, so 223 is 5.56 mm and 270 is around 6.8 i believe. Basically i a bigger diameter yes, so more mass and a bigger wound channel... i don't see anything wrong with baiting a big cat. good luck with the hunt.

10-14-2008, 09:50 PM	#18
bunce Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 24	ok sell, but how did you work that out, and can different caliber bullets be used in different caliber guns, because i think ive seen that done before, or am i wrong? thanks so far.

10-17-2008, 11:50 AM	#19
Gopher3604x4 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: 1/2 mi. off the dirt road. Posts: 111	Never shoot a round in a gun that it wos not intended for!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NEVER EVER EVER THRY THAT!!!!

10-17-2008, 11:52 AM	#20
Gopher3604x4 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: 1/2 mi. off the dirt road. Posts: 111	Look for some ammo with a picture of a deer on it in .223 that should be good for your cat.