Corrections and CCW

jaeger · 01-22-2008, 05:09 PM

Just a question, what does everyone think about Correctional officers right to carry a concealed weapon. Not trying to start a debate, just curious.

Cyrano · 01-22-2008, 05:21 PM

It depends, jaeger. Do you mean on the job, or off the job?

Off the job, I'd like to have a law that said corrections officers HAD to carry concealed at all times. They are the subjects of lots of threats from the convicts, and some of those threats aren't just cons gassing, they are real. The corrections officers need to be able to deal with them if and when some ex-con or gangbanger takes action against the corrections officer and his family.

On the job is a different matter. There is an ironclad rule in most prisons that guns are not brought into proximity with inmates for a very good reason. There are lots of cons that wouldn't give a hoot if someone else got killed as long as they were able to get their hands on a weapon for purposes of their own, usually killing someone. That's why prisons have gun towers and gun galleries, and why the officers working in those positions have longarms and not pistols. Longarms are much harder to conceal.

I would not support a law that allowed C.O.s to carry concealed on the job.

mym1a · 01-22-2008, 05:23 PM

some states it's allowed some states CO's are peace officers with limited power and can carry under their badge.In AZ where I was a CO you weren't considered a peace officer and at the time if you wanted to carry cancealed you would have to apply for a permit like all non law inforcement folks.Is it fair? probably not.
I think he is referring to off the job.No one in their right mind would carry nor is it legal or with in prison policy to carry a fire arm on prison grounds,UNLESS AUTHORIZED.Towers, control rooms, transportation, gun gangs, exercise pens complex security.the only time anyone walks a yard or cell block with a fire arm is under lock down and usualy by the prison swat team and or designe.unless its a secure post mess hall some cell blocks but inmates have no access to these posts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyrano

It depends, jaeger. Do you mean on the job, or off the job?

Off the job, I'd like to have a law that said corrections officers HAD to carry concealed at all times. They are the subjects of lots of threats from the convicts, and some of those threats aren't just cons gassing, they are real. The corrections officers need to be able to deal with them if and when some ex-con or gangbanger takes action against the corrections officer and his family.

On the job is a different matter. There is an ironclad rule in most prisons that guns are not brought into proximity with inmates for a very good reason. There are lots of cons that wouldn't give a hoot if someone else got killed as long as they were able to get their hands on a weapon for purposes of their own, usually killing someone. That's why prisons have gun towers and gun galleries, and why the officers working in those positions have longarms and not pistols. Longarms are much harder to conceal.

I would not support a law that allowed C.O.s to carry concealed on the job.

no need if you work a prison and assgned to an armed post you can only use the weapon and ammo thats issued to you.Theres no need for any staff to carry a firearm on prison grounds! unless its authorized.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyrano

It depends, jaeger. Do you mean on the job, or off the job?

Off the job, I'd like to have a law that said corrections officers HAD to carry concealed at all times. They are the subjects of lots of threats from the convicts, and some of those threats aren't just cons gassing, they are real. The corrections officers need to be able to deal with them if and when some ex-con or gangbanger takes action against the corrections officer and his family.

On the job is a different matter. There is an ironclad rule in most prisons that guns are not brought into proximity with inmates for a very good reason. There are lots of cons that wouldn't give a hoot if someone else got killed as long as they were able to get their hands on a weapon for purposes of their own, usually killing someone. That's why prisons have gun towers and gun galleries, and why the officers working in those positions have longarms and not pistols. Longarms are much harder to conceal.

I would not support a law that allowed C.O.s to carry concealed on the job.

not always some posts require or are issued different weapons could be revolver,gas gun shot gun or rifle???

khahn79 · 01-22-2008, 05:52 PM

My dad works for the prison, not as a guard, but as a steamfitter. I have never worried about his safety on the job and he has several inmates working under him. However, if the CO's were walking around with pistols on their hips I think I would worry. He's witnessed first-hand...several times...an inmate QUICKLY take down a CO, even if just temporarily. Some of those inmates spend a lot of time watching the CO's and learning their body language and they know when the CO's can be caught off guard. Even the "best" CO's. Of course I fully support the SWAT and guard tower officers being armed, but for the CO's that are working in close proximity to the inmates, I just don't think it would be a great idea. Just my two cents.

mym1a · 01-22-2008, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by khahn79

My dad works for the prison, not as a guard, but as a steamfitter. I have never worried about his safety on the job and he has several inmates working under him. However, if the CO's were walking around with pistols on their hips I think I would worry. He's witnessed first-hand...several times...an inmate QUICKLY take down a CO, even if just temporarily. Some of those inmates spend a lot of time watching the CO's and learning their body language and they know when the CO's can be caught off guard. Even the "best" CO's. Of course I fully support the SWAT and guard tower officers being armed, but for the CO's that are working in close proximity to the inmates, I just don't think it would be a great idea. Just my two cents.

staff cannot bring a fire- arm on prison grounds,only authorized CO's who are assigned to certain posts carry weapons these post are in places were inmates have no access or are placed in restraints and being transported.weapons and ammo are issued you don't just bring your favorite shot gun to work.If you fear for your safety and carry enroute to work and home you can secure your weapon at the prison armory before entering the prison and p/u on your way home!

jaeger · 01-22-2008, 10:52 PM

The reason I asked is because I am a Federal C/O and we are authorized to carry concealed in all 50 states. However today I was kept for over an hour on the side of the road waiting for a field supervisor to clarify the LEOSA to the officer who pulled me over. I did not get mad or loud because i knew he was doing his job, and when you dont know you ask. Just wanted to get some opinions. At the prison I work at only perimeter and escort have weapons, also we are not authorized (yet) to bring our personal weapons onto bureau property. Just as a finishing note, I did declare my weapon, and its location to the officer when he approched my truck, and no I did not get any tickets

ArkansasHunter · 01-23-2008, 12:02 AM

I wouldn't mind working in a Jail as a Jailer and I would wish I could carry a concealed hand gun. Because it's a ruff place to work and for that reason it's best not to have one...meaning if it were detected and you were over powered it would be a real SHTF.
My son put himself through a class at a college being a Jailer and Dispatcher and carrying a gun there was against the rules. They had extendable night sticks, Pepper spray and Tasers to take care of problems.

GlockMeister · 01-23-2008, 12:28 AM

Your problem is that of an officer not fully knowing the law is all. I'm sure it was nothing personal towards you. I'm sure once he found out you were sent on your way. Yes, I'm sure it was an inconvenience. But, consider what it is like for these officers now a days?

Be glad you can carry at all. Hillary or Obama gets there way, you may be one of the victims. They may not see you as one that requires you to carry all the time. I on the other hand think and guard, or prison personnel that deals directly with inmates, and can at any time be threatened, should be allowed to be able to protect themselves. As far as the khahn79's statement, I can completely understand where you're coming from. An inmate can at anytime surprise any member of the prison staff that may be carrying inside and use it against that individual or someone else. I completely agree with them not having the authority to carry in that instance.

Now as far as the ones that are kept armed, but away from the general population, such as the guards on a wall or something like that, by all means, give them the best rifle with an even better scope and allow them to take 'em out.

G-Meister

Mooseman684 · 01-23-2008, 12:49 AM

In Alaska the DOC guys Train alongside State Troopers, and Are Law enforcement 24/7...
Inside prisons is a different story for security reasons...
And we ALL can carry concealed without permits Now !!! I love this State !
Rich

Windwalker · 01-23-2008, 07:31 AM

Alaska is a great state. Wish I lived there but I am getting so old that I might not be able to get around good enough in the snow and ice. Sure would love to try though.

jaeger · 01-23-2008, 08:15 AM

To Glockmeister, we do have rifles in our Patrol Veh's, however with a prison that is over 800 yds long and a 16" M-16 we would be playing 5.56 artillery. Thats why you just hit them with the truck, get out shoot him, cuff him, have a smoke and get a promotion.

wily1 · 02-01-2008, 11:47 PM

I put on my uniform, go to work, and thank the Big Guy when I walk out 12 hours later

ClayMan · 02-02-2008, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaeger

Just a question, what does everyone think about Correctional officers right to carry a concealed weapon. Not trying to start a debate, just curious.

The Second Amendment affirms the right of all people to keep and bear arms without respect to occupation (all real scholars agree that the "well regulated militia" wording is NOT a stipulation).

Everyone should have CCW everywhere right?

ClayMan

mym1a · 02-02-2008, 05:58 PM

It should be well within your right to carry to and from work/prison as long as you adhere to your prisons policy on securing your weapon, from my experience all I had to do is check mine into the armory or front gate depends on lay out of the prison????

mdj696 · 02-02-2008, 10:21 PM

Best thing Bush ever did was to pass a law allowing retired law enforcement to carry. Had CWPs, after retiring, in Ga & N.C.(permit N.C.) was about $250.00. Havn't found a need to carry concealed but have one within reach at all times. Used to work stakeout in Conv. stores, county just east of Atlanta, talk about open season.

RMTactical · 02-13-2008, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaeger

To Glockmeister, we do have rifles in our Patrol Veh's, however with a prison that is over 800 yds long and a 16" M-16 we would be playing 5.56 artillery. Thats why you just hit them with the truck, get out shoot him, cuff him, have a smoke and get a promotion.

I like your style.

Abomb5800 · 02-16-2008, 10:02 PM

I WISH CO'S COULD CARRY WHILE OFF DUTY. I AM A MILITARY PRISON GUARD WITH MY CCW IN COLORADO. BUT THAT DOES NOT HELP ME, THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA DOES NOT SEE IT FIT FOR A PRISON GUARD TO HAVE TO PROTECT HIM/HER SELF WHILE OFF DUTY. I WAS A COP FOR THREE YEARS BEFORE I JOINED. I HAD APPROVEL FROM MY COMAND TO GET ONE. THE LAID WHO DID MY INTERVIEW COULD NOT COMPREHEND WHY A CORRECTIONS OFFICER WOULD NEED ONE.

01-22-2008, 05:09 PM	#1
jaeger Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: NJ Posts: 232 Images: 3	Corrections and CCW Just a question, what does everyone think about Correctional officers right to carry a concealed weapon. Not trying to start a debate, just curious.

01-22-2008, 05:52 PM	#4
khahn79 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 178	My dad works for the prison, not as a guard, but as a steamfitter. I have never worried about his safety on the job and he has several inmates working under him. However, if the CO's were walking around with pistols on their hips I think I would worry. He's witnessed first-hand...several times...an inmate QUICKLY take down a CO, even if just temporarily. Some of those inmates spend a lot of time watching the CO's and learning their body language and they know when the CO's can be caught off guard. Even the "best" CO's. Of course I fully support the SWAT and guard tower officers being armed, but for the CO's that are working in close proximity to the inmates, I just don't think it would be a great idea. Just my two cents. __________________ Well behaved women rarely make history!

01-23-2008, 12:28 AM	#8
GlockMeister Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Northern Illinois Posts: 2,895	Your problem is that of an officer not fully knowing the law is all. I'm sure it was nothing personal towards you. I'm sure once he found out you were sent on your way. Yes, I'm sure it was an inconvenience. But, consider what it is like for these officers now a days? Be glad you can carry at all. Hillary or Obama gets there way, you may be one of the victims. They may not see you as one that requires you to carry all the time. I on the other hand think and guard, or prison personnel that deals directly with inmates, and can at any time be threatened, should be allowed to be able to protect themselves. As far as the khahn79's statement, I can completely understand where you're coming from. An inmate can at anytime surprise any member of the prison staff that may be carrying inside and use it against that individual or someone else. I completely agree with them not having the authority to carry in that instance. Now as far as the ones that are kept armed, but away from the general population, such as the guards on a wall or something like that, by all means, give them the best rifle with an even better scope and allow them to take 'em out. G-Meister __________________ I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6! Last edited by GlockMeister; 01-23-2008 at 12:31 AM.

01-23-2008, 12:49 AM	#9
Mooseman684 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 8,195 Images: 2	In Alaska the DOC guys Train alongside State Troopers, and Are Law enforcement 24/7... Inside prisons is a different story for security reasons... And we ALL can carry concealed without permits Now !!! I love this State ! Rich __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

01-22-2008, 05:21 PM	#2
Cyrano Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: New York Posts: 1,110	It depends, jaeger. Do you mean on the job, or off the job? Off the job, I'd like to have a law that said corrections officers HAD to carry concealed at all times. They are the subjects of lots of threats from the convicts, and some of those threats aren't just cons gassing, they are real. The corrections officers need to be able to deal with them if and when some ex-con or gangbanger takes action against the corrections officer and his family. On the job is a different matter. There is an ironclad rule in most prisons that guns are not brought into proximity with inmates for a very good reason. There are lots of cons that wouldn't give a hoot if someone else got killed as long as they were able to get their hands on a weapon for purposes of their own, usually killing someone. That's why prisons have gun towers and gun galleries, and why the officers working in those positions have longarms and not pistols. Longarms are much harder to conceal. I would not support a law that allowed C.O.s to carry concealed on the job.

01-22-2008, 10:52 PM	#6
jaeger Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: NJ Posts: 232 Images: 3	The reason I asked is because I am a Federal C/O and we are authorized to carry concealed in all 50 states. However today I was kept for over an hour on the side of the road waiting for a field supervisor to clarify the LEOSA to the officer who pulled me over. I did not get mad or loud because i knew he was doing his job, and when you dont know you ask. Just wanted to get some opinions. At the prison I work at only perimeter and escort have weapons, also we are not authorized (yet) to bring our personal weapons onto bureau property. Just as a finishing note, I did declare my weapon, and its location to the officer when he approched my truck, and no I did not get any tickets

01-23-2008, 12:02 AM	#7
ArkansasHunter Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: South Arkansas Posts: 8,702	I wouldn't mind working in a Jail as a Jailer and I would wish I could carry a concealed hand gun. Because it's a ruff place to work and for that reason it's best not to have one...meaning if it were detected and you were over powered it would be a real SHTF. My son put himself through a class at a college being a Jailer and Dispatcher and carrying a gun there was against the rules. They had extendable night sticks, Pepper spray and Tasers to take care of problems.

01-23-2008, 07:31 AM	#10
Windwalker Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 2,146	Alaska is a great state. Wish I lived there but I am getting so old that I might not be able to get around good enough in the snow and ice. Sure would love to try though.

01-23-2008, 08:15 AM	#11
jaeger Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: NJ Posts: 232 Images: 3	To Glockmeister, we do have rifles in our Patrol Veh's, however with a prison that is over 800 yds long and a 16" M-16 we would be playing 5.56 artillery. Thats why you just hit them with the truck, get out shoot him, cuff him, have a smoke and get a promotion.

02-01-2008, 11:47 PM	#12
wily1 Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Brandon, Manitoba Posts: 73	I put on my uniform, go to work, and thank the Big Guy when I walk out 12 hours later

02-02-2008, 05:58 PM	#14
mym1a Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,063	It should be well within your right to carry to and from work/prison as long as you adhere to your prisons policy on securing your weapon, from my experience all I had to do is check mine into the armory or front gate depends on lay out of the prison????

02-02-2008, 10:21 PM	#15
mdj696 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 171 Images: 1	Best thing Bush ever did was to pass a law allowing retired law enforcement to carry. Had CWPs, after retiring, in Ga & N.C.(permit N.C.) was about $250.00. Havn't found a need to carry concealed but have one within reach at all times. Used to work stakeout in Conv. stores, county just east of Atlanta, talk about open season.

02-16-2008, 10:02 PM	#17
Abomb5800 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 7	I WISH CO'S COULD CARRY WHILE OFF DUTY. I AM A MILITARY PRISON GUARD WITH MY CCW IN COLORADO. BUT THAT DOES NOT HELP ME, THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA DOES NOT SEE IT FIT FOR A PRISON GUARD TO HAVE TO PROTECT HIM/HER SELF WHILE OFF DUTY. I WAS A COP FOR THREE YEARS BEFORE I JOINED. I HAD APPROVEL FROM MY COMAND TO GET ONE. THE LAID WHO DID MY INTERVIEW COULD NOT COMPREHEND WHY A CORRECTIONS OFFICER WOULD NEED ONE.