PTSD.another pandoras box.

[dropzone]

sorry I couldnt help but to open this. not saying its not real, but what the guys coming back are suffering is not ptsd. its that after been in direct combat for 12-+ months they are thrown to the civilian world without time to unwind, I believe our combat troops coming back should stay restricted to post for at least 30days during this time their families and friends visit them and they can be reintroduce slowly. switch from survivor/combat state of mind to "back home again" mentality. also their family and friends need to understand that this guys are not the same person that left to fight a yr ago, one, two, three or more tours ago, and they will never be . is like virginity....once loose is gone for ever.every time I came from downrange time. it took me a little time to switch again to the non-combat mentality. I not saying ptsd isnt real, but to many "experts",the press,etc are using the term too easily, too fast to explain a behavior that was normal and necesary to survive in combat, but not for back here.give the guys some downtime to detox the combatmode. ptsd is a way for this "experts" to get their 15min of fame in the spotlight(news), and not a illness.

[nathangdad]

When I was young a great many WW2 veterans worked in the West Texas
Oil Fields. I remember one in particular, Rod H. (last name omitted purposefully) who was a machinegunner on a B-17. I have on several occasions heard him tell my father, "I don't know what it is but I'm telling you there are times when I am back in that thing and it is real. I mean everything from the roar of the engines to the sound of all of us shooting."

That was before Vietnam and a long time before PTSD was in the public vernacular. Here was a case of a man who had almost a year of time in the military at bases in England and then the long boat trip home plus the hero parade before he was released.

So, some people did get a long decompression time but still had PTSD.

[dropzone]

what we went thru during combat will never leave us. the sounds, the faces, etc. all that is real.but if we make ptsd a disability we all qualify I just have to say I have nightmares,(ptsd) go to work and slap the boss(ptsd),adultery(ptsd)dont want to work(ptsd), stand in the itersections with a sign that say"ptsd" please help. we are not talking about a mental illness, we are talking about the new cute anacronism to excuse every screwup we can think of,and a new way for the "expert" to get $$$$ I remember that in the 80's everyone wanted to be a sex terapist, then viagra came in an kill that one now we have a huge # of troops in "combat/survivor" mode, so the new frappuccino is "PTSD" can some troops get mentally severelly affected by the war? hell yeah..also everyone that been raped, had loss his/her job.been a victim of a crime. comit a crime, got into a bad car accident. saw a puppy been kill in the highway. not having enough milk to eat the cereal. didnt get a car loan. saw the gas prices. see the fact that is not a good or bad president who make descisions, but the congress/senate that vote yes or no. post in a website and find out not everyone agreed with me(ptsd), last time I check when a person is mentally ill he/she is the last one to find out.mental illness is the most dificult condition to diagnost simply because the patient dont fell is doing nothing wrong. but when a a soldier come home and slap his girl/wife, police come and the 1st thing he/she say is i been in the sand box I have ptsd.it meant tha everyone that went to d-day should be interned with ptsd, everyone in vietnam should be interned also with ptsd, . our troops do need time to unwind and remember that there not in the combat enviorment, but back home. the same way,it take time to get sharp again once they get deployed again. thats why the military have the "predeployment training" it should be a prereturn home training.and the press and the selfappointed experts need to keep coming with all this cute names.....

[HARDERTR]

We have had a couple of wives killed at Ft. Bragg recently....now all of a sudden every chaplain over here is hounding us about "re-deployment training.." The funny thing is, not a SINGLE ONE OF THEM blames the cheating spouse back home...they blame it on PTSD.

[big shrek]

You will never forget the first time you put a human in your sights. But then, with that you should always remember what THEY were armed with and why YOU put them in your sights in the first place. If it was a righteous shoot, you should have no issues.



I also remember the first cow I had to euthanize...but I'll be danged if it'll stop me from enjoying steaks & burgers.

[retiredsquid]

For the last few years each appointment at the VA with my primary care physician the nurses ask about my mental health and if there are any demons resurfacing. I just tell them that I am fine and wouldn't tell them if there were any. I am not going to give them a chance to take my guns away from me. I've been accused of having PTSD. My response is that everyone else is e'ff'd up, 'cause I am the normal one.

I can see where some will find PTSD as an easy way to claim disability, though. Heck, mine already adds up to 140% if you used regular math instead of VA math.
Regards,
Rich

[dropzone]

the whole country will suffer extreme ptsd by nov 7.

[Zen900]

Originally Posted by big shrek

You will never forget the first time you put a human in your sights. But then, with that you should always remember what THEY were armed with and why YOU put them in your sights in the first place. If it was a righteous shoot, you should have no issues.



I also remember the first cow I had to euthanize...but I'll be danged if it'll stop me from enjoying steaks & burgers.

It's more likely that PTSD comes from being shot AT. Or just the thought of being shot tommorrow.

[nathangdad]

is not the rememberance of a traumatic event but the
involuntary total recall (re-experience) of the event.

I agree it is a vague issue but even the most jaded person
must understand for some people it is a situation that
interferes with daily activity, growth beyond the event,
ability to function, hold a job, etc.

[dropzone]

nathagdad you are right as any mental illness is almost impossible to diagnoss ptsd is real but now is miss used and used as an excuse for everything

[Jay]

Some folks will misuse anything. That doesn't detract from taking care of those who need it. PTSD doesn't follow rigid guidelines. I work in a Comp & Pension clinic for the VA, and it's easy to spot the fakes, but it's also sobering to see the legit guys and gals. (and just so you know, many of the fakes get caught)
I have PTSD as well, but it's not debilitating. Just for the record, I asked my Senator about it, and got this response...

http://personal.swayzee.com/jayb/hr2640.jpg

Just for a bit of clarity here........

What is Posttraumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD)? - (National Center for PTSD)

Semper Fi

[Jay]

Just in case anyone here should be interested in contacting the VA for anything, I put this online the other day. It's accurate as of last month.

VA Contact info

[Rangersniper175]

The treatment I have found that work for me and you may call it BS, but it works for me for the past 10 years is bio-feed back training. It gives you the power to overcome the build up and anger when you first feel it coming on. This has kept me from blowing up many many times. Plus I have a fantastic wife who also is able to pick up the signals when I am building up and she can defuse the situation. She has kept my ass out of a lot of situations. Plus I can talk to her about a lot more than I can with a stranger who has no idea what I mean, because she has been there thru thick and thin. So my hat is off to her for being such a strong woman.

[Seabeescotty]

I've seen fakes take the government, for everything they could get. And I've talked to people who have PTSD, who say they deal with it on a daily basis, and need no help. PTSD is real, and can ruin lives. I talked to a fella, who was on the Indianapolis, when she got torpedoed. He came home, married, worked, raised his children, and had no problems. Then he retired, and his wife died. With all the idle time on his hands, the memories surfaced, and made life a living hell, for him. He started attending Nam vet sessions, and it helped him cope with the memories, and nightmares. Everyone has an opinion, about this. I have had problems, myself, and know that it's a damaging problem, if left to fester. My sons have had bouts, with it, and most likely are forever changed, like the rest of the combat veterans. That was the one thing that saddened me, about their service, knowing that they would come home changed, like so many of us, who served in combat.

[Deersniper]

What they make our soldiers do these days goes against the moral code they are taught. The poor civilians caught up in it. The terrorists that use human shields. The carnage. These things put a very deep wrinkle in the human memory. I was 4-F because of asthma, but lived through the troubles it caused my dad who served in Korea. He pushed the release button on the B-52's. Men were taught to keep it in. Every time there was a bomb go off on TV he would go to the CO club and get wasted. If soldiers would be used correctly for defending this country, it would help. Killing any human being, whether righteous or not sticks with you forever. It's how you deal with it that's vital to your health, you deserve the best in life now.
Thanks for your service. You did the best you could for our freedom. Get together with each other, talk it out, keep close to each other. May the best come your way all your days

[Seabeescotty]

We get together, to make sure we are doing the best we can, and to discuss the issues. Very rarely will you hear us talking about the dark side of our service. We talk about the inane things that happened, but you won't hear us talk about killing. We remember those who never came home, and bolster one another's spirit. We do our best, to care for our own, because of the hell we were put through, by a very few people. And we do our very best, to protect the next generation, from the heartache we were forced to suffer. "Never again, will one generation of veterans, abandon another generation of veterans."

That is the goal of the Vietnam Veterans of America, and it's a worthy goal, in my old eyes!

[Rangersniper175]

Seabeescotty very, very well put into words. Keep up the good work!!

[Rockh0und]

They are making great steps toward getting people with problems to seek help too. Before, if you went to the VA with mental issues. It went on file. It could keep you from getting promotions and cause all kinds of problems for the career soldier. Just a couple years ago someone finally noticed that this was a problem and now mental issues are kept private and off your military records. So hopefully, more people with a problem will be more likely to go seek the help they need.
A major problem I see, I can't speak for all branches of service, but the Army standards for enlistment are way, way too low. They'll take just about anybody. I didn't join the Army until I was almost 30 but I'm in good enough shape to keep up with the younger guys. When I went through Basic Training I was shocked at the disrespect, the lack of disipline, the overall chewed up behavior that was allowed. And even more so that those individuals were not culled from service. All the power to mold warriors from civilians has been taken from the Drill Sergeants. So the product they're forced to turn out every few months is a soft, undiciplined, me, me, me group that isn't fit to fight a cold, much less a war. I'm in Iraq right now. Going outside the wire every day. We have junior enlisted that talk back to NCO's and Officers. Almost every order is questioned/griped about openly. You take a weak minded individual, and put him in this situation. He's probably going to have trouble figuring out how to deal with the little annoyances back home. Much less the big problems. Don't get me wrong, I'm by no means saying that everybody who has trouble dealing with the transition is weak. If you see your buddy in the seat beside you blow up in an ied explosion or have to take a human life it WILL be with you forever. I don't care who you are. I went home a month ago for R&R and was almost on the floor of the Japaneese Steak house when they squirted the stuff on the grill and set the big fire off behind me. I also noticed that I wanted to knock the crap out of anyone I heard going on about petty annoyance like it was a life and death emergency. I didn't like going to the store because of the crouds. I had the bad dreams too. I know it will be a struggle fitting back into the real world. But like Rangersniper, I've got a great woman back home that can read me like a book and calm me down or get me out of a volitile situation or just shut up and give me space. The famlies back home need as much training on what to look for in us after we come home as we get on the subject before we start home. Just most of them either don't know it or won't take the time to seek it out.

[Rockh0und]

They are making great steps toward getting people with problems to seek help too. Before, if you went to the VA with mental issues. It went on file. It could keep you from getting promotions and cause all kinds of problems for the career soldier. Just a couple years ago someone finally noticed that this was a problem and now mental issues are kept private and off your military records. So hopefully, more people with a problem will be more likely to go seek the help they need.
A major problem I see, I can't speak for all branches of service, but the Army standards for enlistment are way, way too low. They'll take just about anybody. I didn't join the Army until I was almost 30 but I'm in good enough shape to keep up with the younger guys. When I went through Basic Training I was shocked at the disrespect, the lack of disipline, the overall chewed up behavior that was allowed. And even more so that those individuals were not culled from service. All the power to mold warriors from civilians has been taken from the Drill Sergeants. So the product they're forced to turn out every few months is a soft, undiciplined, me, me, me group that isn't fit to fight a cold, much less a war. I'm in Iraq right now. Going outside the wire every day. We have junior enlisted that talk back to NCO's and Officers. Almost every order is questioned/griped about openly. You take a weak minded individual, and put him in this situation. He's probably going to have trouble figuring out how to deal with the little annoyances back home. Much less the big problems. Don't get me wrong, I'm by no means saying that everybody who has trouble dealing with the transition is weak. If you see your buddy in the seat beside you blow up in an ied explosion or have to take a human life it WILL be with you forever. I don't care who you are. I went home a month ago for R&R and was almost on the floor of the Japaneese Steak house when they squirted the stuff on the grill and set the big fire off behind me. I also noticed that I wanted to knock the crap out of anyone I heard going on about petty annoyance like it was a life and death emergency. I didn't like going to the store because of the crouds. I had the bad dreams too. I know it will be a struggle fitting back into the real world. But like Rangersniper, I've got a great woman back home that can read me like a book and calm me down or get me out of a volitile situation or just shut up and give me space. The famlies back home need as much training on what to look for in us after we come home as we get on the subject before we start home. Just most of them either don't know it or won't take the time to seek it out.

[SwedeSteve]

A while back I went in to see the Doc ref a sinus infection. Just took some antibiotics. During our discussion he asked if I had any other health related issues. I told him yes, insomnia. He said it could be ptsd-related. I said it was, but chose to deal with it on my own. What did I say that for !!! It took me almost another hour to get out of there !! Recently, I had a cancer scare. I asked him if it was ptsd-related jokingly. He said probably, but you'll just deal with it on your own !! LOL !!
I never took any disability, I had nothing serious wrong with me. Save it for my brothers that need it I always said. Same with this I guess. There are some soldiers out there that really need help, and I do NOT want to tie up resources that they so desperately need, just because I don't sleep much. Shell Shock, Combat Fatigue, PTSD, whichever you choose to call it, it is real, and requires each and every one of us to help our soldiers through it. Sure, some sorry SOB's will try to skate, but that is true in all that is military.