Manurhin Walther

Calvin · 01-06-2003, 03:53 PM

Anyone have any experience with these Walthers? I've read about them, and have seen them in the $400 price range at a few gun shows. Only reason I'm asking is because Centerfire Systems has them for $250 in the box with 1 mag. If I remember correctly, they were made under license in France between 1948-56, and used by German police.

NRAJOE · 01-06-2003, 04:13 PM

III. Firearm Information By Type
C. Semi-Automatic Pistols
2. Models and Manufacturers
m. Manurhin Made Walther P-1
by Ben Sansing (ben.sansing@grapevine.lrk.ar.us).
Shooting Report - 19 Oct 95

To paraphrase an old saying: "The more I shoot other auto pistols, the more I appreciate my FM Hi-Power." Thus it was - yet again - today.

A friend had loaned me a Manurhin-made Walther P-1 (postwar, alloy- framed P-38) 9mm pistol, so I could try it out pending a swap he'd proposed. He wants my M-1 carbine, a nice little Underwood (albeit a Korean re-import). So, I took the P-1 to the range, along with my Hi- Power, which would be the "control" in the shooting experiments - how well would the P-1 compare, and all that.

First, the good news. The P-1 handles beautifully. It points extremely well; has a decent SA trigger (and even a fair DA trigger!); has really nice sights (though fixed, they are very visible and give a clear sight picture - they're also "dead-on" at 25 yards); and is superbly accurate. In addition, in firing close to 100 rounds today, it was 100% reliable. All ammo consisted of my reloads, using a 124gr RN hard-cast bullet. I load two different "strengths" - a light load using 4.2gr Unique, and a "heavy" using 5.5gr of the same powder. The P-1 perked along quite happily with the light load, and handled the heavy with no qualms (My Hi-Power, by contrast, will just *barely* cycle with the light load - the slide *won't* lock back on the last shot, indicating how "marginal" this load is - though it dotes on the "heavy", as well as any +P or NATO-spec ammo it gets fed. Always has - but then, it was designed for heavy duty military use!).

Now, the bad news. Minor "nitpicky" stuff, like the fact that it kicks a bit (being alloy-framed) is of no consequence, but this P-1 pistol has one *major* problem which annoys me greatly. It ejects its cases straight back! Most of them today flew past my left ear today, though a few hit me in the chest, or bounced off my shoulder. Three or four caught me squarely in the face, including one which bounced just *wrong* and lodged between my glasses and my cheek. Yes, it was HOT. Somehow I managed to dislodge it without violating any safety rules - my finger came off the trigger, the gun remained pointing downrange - but I did let out a most pitiful wail, fearing for my eye!

Other than this obnoxious "ejection direction" difficulty, I like the P-1 very much - but the "in yer face" stuff may doom it. Is anyone here wise in the ways of the P-38/P-1 pistols? Is this a common problem? Is there a simple cure? Since the magazine has something important to do with ejection (so I've read), would a different magazine be likely to send 'em off on a different trajectory?

My main "plinking" target was a section of wood hacked from the trunk of a small tree (obtained during a recent session of yard work), about the size of a human head or a small pumpkin. At 25 yards it was easy to knock it around with either the Hi-Power or the P-1. 50yd "swinging plates" were more difficult, as the P-1 shot a bit low, but once "Kentucky Windage" was established, the plates were quickly set to swinging by repeated hits.

As noted in my opening remark, though, the P-1 was helpful in another way. After a magazine or two through it, I'd switch to the Hi-Power - and marvel again at how well the old Browning-designed blaster fits my hand, how instinctively (for me) it points, how simple to align the "tri-dot" sights are, and how marvellously effortless it is to hit stuff with. I'm still quite partial to "six-shooters", of course - but the FM is my all-time favorite "fourteen-shooter". A few weeks ago, I was raving about how neat Glocks are... well, Glocks are still neat, but when all is said and done I still *prefer* the old P35 Hi-Power. IMHO, it remains the world's best service pistol - and one of the primo choices for civilian shooters (especially those on a budget: FM = $225- 250, approx. Glock = $400-600. 13rd Hi-Power mags remain low-priced and plentiful. Not so hi-cap Glock mags. So, is the choice a no-brainer, or what?).

After the pistol session, I drove my squat little Ford Pinto Runamuck up to the intermediate (125yd) range and plinked a bit with my scoped Marlin 336 in .35 Remington - "Old Reliable" - and then dug out the battered, blueless, ratty-looking *old* Marlin 336 .30-30 I picked up at a pawn shop last week for a song. No scope, just the 30-year-old crude iron sights. No "tailored loads" - just some 110gr whoopies I'd originally loaded for my Super14 Contender. The target - a fat dirt clod - again, about "small pumpkin" sized - low down on the backstop 125yds away. Took me two shots to correct for elevation. Windage was "on" from the start. Then, I pulverized the clod (those 110gr bullets literally explode when they hit). Several additional clods lost their lives in a similarly-spectacular manner. I'd bought the .30-30 with the idea of making a "Winter Project" out of it, refinishing the stock, cleaning it up, etc - all these plans hanging on the corollary, "if it worked". Well, yeah - it works GREAT. And, with its straight-gripped stock (somewhat uncommon on Marlins, which are most often found in pistol-grip config like my .35) and glassless top, it weighs very little and handles like a good shotgun. Fast! I may end up having it "Trapperized", cut down to a 16.25" barrel and tube. May have it parkerized, too. Or may leave it alone except for cosmetic improvements. Don't know yet. I *do* know it's destined to be taken to the range - and the woods - a lot. Great "utility" guns, these .30-30s. Marlins, especially. I *likes* 'em.

As a final diversion, I packed up again and drove over to the 300 meter rifle range, where I found a cluster of earnest fellows sighting in their muzzleloaders for next week's opening day of BP deer season, interspersed with the usual smattering of "serious" modern rifle shooters. They were all on the "paper target" side of the range, so I went to the "steel clangy things" side, which offers all the popular silhouette animals (not all of them at "official" ranges, but rather scaled down appropriately where necessary), each mounted on a heavy truck spring so it goes "whanga-whanga" quite nicely when hit, but - like "Punchy the Clown" - it don't fall down. I unlimbered the good old .35, with its 3-9x "plinking" scope attached (as opposed to the smaller, lighter 2.5-7x "hunting" scope), got out my sandbags and such, and settled down to do some *serious* plinking. I'd brought about 100rds for it, I guess - about half of them my "light" load (158gr JHP pistol bullet over 11.3gr Unique pistol powder - gives about .357 Magnum rifle ballistics), and the rest my "full-power practice load", using "just enough" 3031 behind a 180gr JHP pistol bullet, which I use to simulate the more expensive 180gr Speer FNs I employ for "serious hunting".

No time to waste - I sat down, drew a 9x bead on the forlorn little scaled-down ram at 300 meters, and cut loose. It went low, so I corrected, and within a couple of shots "got his number", then proceeded to make him go "whanga-whanga" repeatedly. About ten shots into this amusement, the "serious modern rifle shooters" across the way began grumbling, and soon thereafter they packed up and left. I learned later that they'd become annoyed at the sight of "the old fart hick" (which I guess I look like, from a distance) down the way, with "his **** .30-30" (which the .35 looks like, from a distance), making the "long-range ram" boogie til it puked, even as they were struggling valiantly to sight in their high-priced *new* bolt action sporters at the vastly more rational range of 100 yards! Gee, sorry guys - it's really not as hard as it looks, I promise! People whack those silly things with PISTOLS all the time, so it's a relatively minor feat with a good rifle. I guess it was just as well I didn't have my old No4 Enfield along - it *really* pisses 'em off when someone "dances the ram" with an iron-sighted military rifle. :-)

I finally got tired of the ram, and "killed" the 200m chicken for a while, and even plinked at the 300m pig (but he's not scaled-down, so it's not very challenging) then got tired and packed up and came home. All in all, a very rewarding and relaxing "ex-po-tition".

PAPA G · 01-06-2003, 04:39 PM

crap!!! my Centerfire ad is soggy with drool!!!

Calvin · 01-07-2003, 12:27 AM

They certainly do, Papa G! I think I may have to see if they have any for adoption this week!

NRAJoe, I shoulda specified that the model is a PP. They sure look nice, man!

jaco · 08-04-2003, 04:31 AM

I have a Manurhin PPK - Shot everything I could get me grubby mitts on through it, and no FTF or FTE after about 1000 rounds.
Totally reliable and excellent workmanship.

NRAJOE · 08-04-2003, 11:10 AM

I still keep putting off getting one. Lois from Centerfire advertises them on ak-47.net in the c&r section for $229.00!

01-06-2003, 03:53 PM	#1
Calvin Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 1,976	Manurhin Walther Anyone have any experience with these Walthers? I've read about them, and have seen them in the $400 price range at a few gun shows. Only reason I'm asking is because Centerfire Systems has them for $250 in the box with 1 mag. If I remember correctly, they were made under license in France between 1948-56, and used by German police. __________________ I've gone to look for myself. If I should return before I get back, please ask me to wait.

01-06-2003, 04:13 PM	#2
NRAJOE Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Toledo,OH Posts: 18,883	III. Firearm Information By Type C. Semi-Automatic Pistols 2. Models and Manufacturers m. Manurhin Made Walther P-1 by Ben Sansing (ben.sansing@grapevine.lrk.ar.us). Shooting Report - 19 Oct 95 To paraphrase an old saying: "The more I shoot other auto pistols, the more I appreciate my FM Hi-Power." Thus it was - yet again - today. A friend had loaned me a Manurhin-made Walther P-1 (postwar, alloy- framed P-38) 9mm pistol, so I could try it out pending a swap he'd proposed. He wants my M-1 carbine, a nice little Underwood (albeit a Korean re-import). So, I took the P-1 to the range, along with my Hi- Power, which would be the "control" in the shooting experiments - how well would the P-1 compare, and all that. First, the good news. The P-1 handles beautifully. It points extremely well; has a decent SA trigger (and even a fair DA trigger!); has really nice sights (though fixed, they are very visible and give a clear sight picture - they're also "dead-on" at 25 yards); and is superbly accurate. In addition, in firing close to 100 rounds today, it was 100% reliable. All ammo consisted of my reloads, using a 124gr RN hard-cast bullet. I load two different "strengths" - a light load using 4.2gr Unique, and a "heavy" using 5.5gr of the same powder. The P-1 perked along quite happily with the light load, and handled the heavy with no qualms (My Hi-Power, by contrast, will just barely cycle with the light load - the slide won't lock back on the last shot, indicating how "marginal" this load is - though it dotes on the "heavy", as well as any +P or NATO-spec ammo it gets fed. Always has - but then, it was designed for heavy duty military use!). Now, the bad news. Minor "nitpicky" stuff, like the fact that it kicks a bit (being alloy-framed) is of no consequence, but this P-1 pistol has one major problem which annoys me greatly. It ejects its cases straight back! Most of them today flew past my left ear today, though a few hit me in the chest, or bounced off my shoulder. Three or four caught me squarely in the face, including one which bounced just wrong and lodged between my glasses and my cheek. Yes, it was HOT. Somehow I managed to dislodge it without violating any safety rules - my finger came off the trigger, the gun remained pointing downrange - but I did let out a most pitiful wail, fearing for my eye! Other than this obnoxious "ejection direction" difficulty, I like the P-1 very much - but the "in yer face" stuff may doom it. Is anyone here wise in the ways of the P-38/P-1 pistols? Is this a common problem? Is there a simple cure? Since the magazine has something important to do with ejection (so I've read), would a different magazine be likely to send 'em off on a different trajectory? My main "plinking" target was a section of wood hacked from the trunk of a small tree (obtained during a recent session of yard work), about the size of a human head or a small pumpkin. At 25 yards it was easy to knock it around with either the Hi-Power or the P-1. 50yd "swinging plates" were more difficult, as the P-1 shot a bit low, but once "Kentucky Windage" was established, the plates were quickly set to swinging by repeated hits. As noted in my opening remark, though, the P-1 was helpful in another way. After a magazine or two through it, I'd switch to the Hi-Power - and marvel again at how well the old Browning-designed blaster fits my hand, how instinctively (for me) it points, how simple to align the "tri-dot" sights are, and how marvellously effortless it is to hit stuff with. I'm still quite partial to "six-shooters", of course - but the FM is my all-time favorite "fourteen-shooter". A few weeks ago, I was raving about how neat Glocks are... well, Glocks are still neat, but when all is said and done I still prefer the old P35 Hi-Power. IMHO, it remains the world's best service pistol - and one of the primo choices for civilian shooters (especially those on a budget: FM = $225- 250, approx. Glock = $400-600. 13rd Hi-Power mags remain low-priced and plentiful. Not so hi-cap Glock mags. So, is the choice a no-brainer, or what?). After the pistol session, I drove my squat little Ford Pinto Runamuck up to the intermediate (125yd) range and plinked a bit with my scoped Marlin 336 in .35 Remington - "Old Reliable" - and then dug out the battered, blueless, ratty-looking old Marlin 336 .30-30 I picked up at a pawn shop last week for a song. No scope, just the 30-year-old crude iron sights. No "tailored loads" - just some 110gr whoopies I'd originally loaded for my Super14 Contender. The target - a fat dirt clod - again, about "small pumpkin" sized - low down on the backstop 125yds away. Took me two shots to correct for elevation. Windage was "on" from the start. Then, I pulverized the clod (those 110gr bullets literally explode when they hit). Several additional clods lost their lives in a similarly-spectacular manner. I'd bought the .30-30 with the idea of making a "Winter Project" out of it, refinishing the stock, cleaning it up, etc - all these plans hanging on the corollary, "if it worked". Well, yeah - it works GREAT. And, with its straight-gripped stock (somewhat uncommon on Marlins, which are most often found in pistol-grip config like my .35) and glassless top, it weighs very little and handles like a good shotgun. Fast! I may end up having it "Trapperized", cut down to a 16.25" barrel and tube. May have it parkerized, too. Or may leave it alone except for cosmetic improvements. Don't know yet. I do know it's destined to be taken to the range - and the woods - a lot. Great "utility" guns, these .30-30s. Marlins, especially. I likes 'em. As a final diversion, I packed up again and drove over to the 300 meter rifle range, where I found a cluster of earnest fellows sighting in their muzzleloaders for next week's opening day of BP deer season, interspersed with the usual smattering of "serious" modern rifle shooters. They were all on the "paper target" side of the range, so I went to the "steel clangy things" side, which offers all the popular silhouette animals (not all of them at "official" ranges, but rather scaled down appropriately where necessary), each mounted on a heavy truck spring so it goes "whanga-whanga" quite nicely when hit, but - like "Punchy the Clown" - it don't fall down. I unlimbered the good old .35, with its 3-9x "plinking" scope attached (as opposed to the smaller, lighter 2.5-7x "hunting" scope), got out my sandbags and such, and settled down to do some serious plinking. I'd brought about 100rds for it, I guess - about half of them my "light" load (158gr JHP pistol bullet over 11.3gr Unique pistol powder - gives about .357 Magnum rifle ballistics), and the rest my "full-power practice load", using "just enough" 3031 behind a 180gr JHP pistol bullet, which I use to simulate the more expensive 180gr Speer FNs I employ for "serious hunting". No time to waste - I sat down, drew a 9x bead on the forlorn little scaled-down ram at 300 meters, and cut loose. It went low, so I corrected, and within a couple of shots "got his number", then proceeded to make him go "whanga-whanga" repeatedly. About ten shots into this amusement, the "serious modern rifle shooters" across the way began grumbling, and soon thereafter they packed up and left. I learned later that they'd become annoyed at the sight of "the old fart hick" (which I guess I look like, from a distance) down the way, with "his **** .30-30" (which the .35 looks like, from a distance), making the "long-range ram" boogie til it puked, even as they were struggling valiantly to sight in their high-priced new bolt action sporters at the vastly more rational range of 100 yards! Gee, sorry guys - it's really not as hard as it looks, I promise! People whack those silly things with PISTOLS all the time, so it's a relatively minor feat with a good rifle. I guess it was just as well I didn't have my old No4 Enfield along - it really pisses 'em off when someone "dances the ram" with an iron-sighted military rifle. :-) I finally got tired of the ram, and "killed" the 200m chicken for a while, and even plinked at the 300m pig (but he's not scaled-down, so it's not very challenging) then got tired and packed up and came home. All in all, a very rewarding and relaxing "ex-po-tition". __________________ U.S. Army 1976-1979 237th Combat Engineers Heilbronn, Germany

01-06-2003, 04:39 PM	#3
PAPA G Guest Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: somerset, kentucky Posts: 12	THEY DO LOOK TEMPTING CALVIN!!!! crap!!! my Centerfire ad is soggy with drool!!!

01-07-2003, 12:27 AM	#4
Calvin Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 1,976	They certainly do, Papa G! I think I may have to see if they have any for adoption this week! NRAJoe, I shoulda specified that the model is a PP. They sure look nice, man! __________________ I've gone to look for myself. If I should return before I get back, please ask me to wait.

08-04-2003, 11:10 AM	#6
NRAJOE Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Toledo,OH Posts: 18,883	I still keep putting off getting one. Lois from Centerfire advertises them on ak-47.net in the c&r section for $229.00! __________________ U.S. Army 1976-1979 237th Combat Engineers Heilbronn, Germany

08-04-2003, 04:31 AM	#5
jaco Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 1	I have a Manurhin PPK - Shot everything I could get me grubby mitts on through it, and no FTF or FTE after about 1000 rounds. Totally reliable and excellent workmanship.

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