[Taurus Fan]

Quote:       Originally Posted by rondog

Guys, this thread is 3 years old!

Omigod this thread IS three years old who resurrected this thing?

[pajaro]

i remember the original black talon...... the way they were marketed, it looked like they split apart at the top, and produced sharp pieces that cut their way into flesh like a drill bit........ it got anti gunners all hot and bothered and they started a huge campaign against them....... it was no use at all to tell them that the bullet would only make about one turn in 10 inches, and that that's not how hydrostatic shock works...... after a lot of very bad publicity, i think winchester pulled them off the market......... didn't they?

[TXplt]

Thread is several years old.

Even so, I see "black talons" (at premium prices) touted for sale from time to time--usually with the sellers thinking they've somehow appreciated in value or gotten better like some type of wine. I think it's more rooted in urban legend than anywhere else--while their performance at the time was good the newer 3rd/4th generation HP's perform better than BT's ever did.

The SXT/SXZ was the next step (with equal or better performance than BT's); now it's the Bonded Defense/PDX line. ANY of these (PDX/SX/SZ) or other competitors (critical defense/gold dot/unicore, etc) offer better and more consistent performance than BT's ever did--politics got the name (not the bullet) dropped. Several unscrupulous prosecutors (either completely lacking in any firearms knowledge or intentionally saying false things if they knew anything about ballistics) used the name and proported design to attempt to get or amplify a conviction--trying to show a good and responsible use of a decent bullet design which had reliable expansion and minimized overpenetration somehow gave malice of thought due to a scary marketing name. They tried to liken it to some type of evil flesh shredding buzz saw which it obviously wasn't (if a bullet makes 1 turn in 10" it will barely make one full turn--if that much-- before stopping in or exiting in a typical target).

Then again, there's no "magic bullet" and shot placement trumps all else. With a handgun it is simply making the best of what you have in terminal performance.

[gun owner]

Winchester discontinued the Black talon, but they never stopped making that specific type of ammo. They just went from calling them "Black Talon" to SXT and for Law Enforecement Winchester Ranger LE ammo. This seems to be just some corporate rebranding. I found a site that sell to civilians here: Welcome To Ammo Sphere at $.70/round not $2.00 a round! The OP got ripped off! I bought some from ammosphere with a credit card and got my order within a couple of days

[TGriffey]

It's just a black oxide finish (Black), with an expanding hollow-point with sharp claws
(Talon)s, at the edges of the copper jacket. "NOT" armor piercing.
Winchester dropped the Black Talon from its line in the early 90's due to complaints that surgical gloves were easily punctured when bullets were removed from the body. Winchester replaced the Black Talon with the SXT line. SXT bullets
are identical in every way except for the lack of a black finish and the pointed claws on the expanded bullets.

[gandog56]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Tack Driver

Black Talon... aka "cop killers"

I'm a betting that actually very few cops were ever killed by them.

[KW Gary M]

My understanding is Black Talon were never discontinued per legal order. Winchester discontinued them due to bad press and them becoming known as "Cop Killer Bullets". The rumor that they will pierce a bullet proof vest is just that, a rumor. Very few, if any, pistol ammo will pierce a bullet proof vest. An old 7.6X25 CZ 57 will have a better chance of going through a bullet proof vest than a Black Tallon. They are great self defense ammo but there are many outher equally as good if not better. Winchester Ranger Talon is pretty much the same thing they just aren't black. I personally like Remmington Golden Saber myself.

[deadzero]

how about Speer Gold Dot ammo? anybody got any feedback on that stuff?

I found a leade on some 380 for my girlfriends gun. I ordered 2 boxes of that Gold Dot for her since she has no ammo for it. (she now knows to never shoot up all her remaining stash of ammo)

[Tack Driver]

Quote:       Originally Posted by gandog56

I'm a betting that actually very few cops were ever killed by them.

I bet you're right too...The ammo got a bad repuation attached to it because of the media, so Winchester pulled it from the market.

[KW Gary M]

I look at Black Talon and the media the same as I look at any gun or any ammo. Black tallon was labeled a "Cop Killer" bullet. I agree with gndog & Tack Driver that most like very few, if any, cops were killed with Black Talon. However, be it Black Talon, Rangers, Golden Sabers, Buffalo Bore, hand loads or any ammo, the bullet didn't kill the cop. The person who pulled the trigger of the gun that fired the Black Talon is the murderer not the Black Talon bullet.

[TGF]

Manufacturer Recalls Hollow Point Bullets That Fail To Explode Inside Targets | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

I want some inferno bullets.