What is a good price on these? I know they are discontinued due to law, but I just recently bought some from a flea market for $40...I got 20 of them.
I'm kind of a 'gun newbie', but im getting into them a lot, and I plan on expanding my collection of ammo, guns, ect.
Are they worth it? What are the pro's and con's of them?
One of my buddies told me they are great bullets, teflon coated, and made to pierce armor. Is this true?
Also, the Federal Premium Law Enforcement Hydra-Shok ammunition as well, I purchased 50 of those for $25. What are the pro's and con's on these?
that isn't really a teflon coating the way i understand it, and i dont believe that most HP's can penetrate body armor. i think the talons and the federal (LEO ONLY) SXT's are the same. dont take what i am saying to the bank, it's not like i got this info from federal or winchester. this is just the way i remember hearing it.
I really like the black talons. I know a guy at the gun show who sells them 10 bucks for 8 rounds of .45. I'd say that was a good deal. Hydrashock, black talons, golden saber, silver tips, and all the other good defense rounds are all good ammo. Shoot a whole lot and see what you like the most. I have grown to like the super light hydrashocks because of how low the recoil it is, so I can get a nice accurate shot pattern in rapid fire.
I'd say you paid through the nose for those Black Talons. Back in '92 I bought 2 20 round boxes for $12 each.
They are not armor piercing in any way. They are however one of the best self defense 9mm rounds that were available. Even some police departments were using them. The law against them was revoked. Winchester voluntairly stopped producing them in 2000. The pro of this round is the petals on the ends of the hollowpoint will tear through whatever flesh, guts Etc. they go through. Making the damage to the person you just shot worse than other hollowpoint ammunition. The Federal Hydrashocks are just another self defense round. But it may have a bit higher one shot stops than other hollowpoints in 9mm.
Do yourself a favor. If you purchase any more self defense rounds, get them in 147 or 124 grain loadings. The 115 grain bullet is too light to penetrate deep enough for many one shot stops. That's why the Black Talons are 147 grains. Also the Federal Hydrashock ammunition or Winchester SXT are what I'd be using if I didn't have the black talons.
Last edited by dmdm; 08-21-2009 at 07:30 PM.
Reason: Wanted to add more information.
Listen to lefty and dmdm they are not as good as the sxt, gold dots , hydra shoks dpx etc....
The do not defeat armour. They were marketed as the second coming of sd ammo but they failed. Do not waste your money on them unless you want them as a collector item.
first, there was no law that made that made Black Talons disappear. they were the focus of a media attack on hollow point ammo in general. there was something that was being drafted at the time to regulate what types of ammo could be sold (a safer hollow point?) in response Winchester pulled all of their Black Talon bullets from retailer shelves on a Monday morning and this effectively ended the media hype and no legislation was created giving some government bureucrat (read, "Idiot") authority over what types of ammo could be sold (safe bullets versus dangerous bullets).
second, they are not Teflon coated. its the same black coating on the Winchester Supreme rifle ammo. I have a quite a bit of the old Black Talon 45acp and 300WM still in boxes.
and finally, the Winchester Supreme SXT ammo is the old Black Talon ammo minus the black coating found on the Supreme rifle ammo.
I currently carry 165gr Ranger SXT in my .40S&W carry gun and I feel very confident in it. After reading up on Winchester's new PDX1, though, I may be switching to that, as it's the next iteration and it's why the SXT is going to be discontinued (according to the article in American Rifleman, September 2009, page 75).
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For those not aware, Winchester intended for SXT to stand for Supreme eXpansion Technology. ( @ TGF) And, if you've seen the gelatin or water test results of the round, you'd understand why they call it that.
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first, there was no law that made that made Black Talons disappear. they were the focus of a media attack on hollow point ammo in general. there was something that was being drafted at the time to regulate what types of ammo could be sold (a safer hollow point?) in response Winchester pulled all of their Black Talon bullets from retailer shelves on a Monday morning and this effectively ended the media hype and no legislation was created giving some government bureucrat (read, "Idiot") authority over what types of ammo could be sold (safe bullets versus dangerous bullets).
second, they are not Teflon coated. its the same black coating on the Winchester Supreme rifle ammo. I have a quite a bit of the old Black Talon 45acp and 300WM still in boxes.
and finally, the Winchester Supreme SXT ammo is the old Black Talon ammo minus the black coating found on the Supreme rifle ammo.
ooops, made a mistake. it's the Winchester PDX1 ammo that is the old Black Talon ammo. didn't realize the mistake till I got to work and saw a box on the shelf. (PDX, pretty darn expensive)
ooops, made a mistake. it's the Winchester PDX1 ammo that is the old Black Talon ammo. didn't realize the mistake till I got to work and saw a box on the shelf. (PDX, pretty darn expensive)
*poke, poke*... Look at post #10 in this thread.
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I'd suggest staying away from the two bucks per round stuff and just find a plain vanilla-flavored JHP that you can afford to shoot. The "magic" bullets are a lot of hype, a bad guy is going to be just as unhappy if you shoot him in the right place with Winchester White Box JHP's .
Last edited by Taurus Fan; 09-01-2009 at 08:27 AM.
I'd suggest staying away from the two bucks per round stuff and just find a plain vanilla-flavored JHP that you can afford to shoot. The "magic" bullets are a lot of hype, a bad guy is going to be just as unhappy if you shoot him in the right place with Winchester White Box JHP's .
$2 per round? What snake oil have you been looking at? Cabela's has the PDX1 ammo for around $1 per round (some a little more, like $1.10 per). That's par for the course with premium defense ammo.
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$2 per round? What snake oil have you been looking at? Cabela's has the PDX1 ammo for around $1 per round (some a little more, like $1.10 per). That's par for the course with premium defense ammo.
Original poster said he bought 20 rounds for $40.
Anyway here's some pretty pictures of various 9mm JHP's , go nuts with it.
Black Talons 
@ TGF) And, if you've seen the gelatin or water test results of the round, you'd understand why they call it that.
it's the Winchester PDX1 ammo that is the old Black Talon ammo. didn't realize the mistake till I got to work and saw a box on the shelf. (PDX, pretty darn expensive)
