Winchester 1897 Ammunition Question

littlejoe872 · 05-29-2007, 08:53 PM

I've been looking on-line a bit, and I've seen conflicting information about this shotgun. One camp says that regarding ammunition, you can't shoot 2 3/4" shells in this gun because the receiver isn't long enough, and too much pressure is built up. The other says that this is true for the Model 1893 shotgun, which was made to shoot black powder loads and the Model 1897 is ok to shoot 2 3/4" shells. Most of the ammo I've seen online here is 2 3/4". Can anyone clear this up for me. I tried posting in the other thread, but it kept auto-merging with my last post, and not showing up in New Posts. Thanks again.

ezearln · 05-29-2007, 08:54 PM

You may be in a bind as many moons ago some shotgun stuff was all loaded in 2 1/2 " shells as I recall...

littlejoe872 · 05-29-2007, 08:58 PM

That would go along with the 2 5/8" because from what I read, it goes by the length of the un-crimped spent shell. I'm confused

ezearln · 05-29-2007, 08:59 PM

Don't worry lil joe, most times all of us is a bit confused!

Mooseman684 · 05-29-2007, 09:21 PM

Hey Buddy,
The Model 1897 was the first Winchester shotgun chambered for 2-3/4 " Smokeless Shells....Just before Producing the 1897, The Model 1893 was for Black powder in 2-5/8" and my book says that mechanical weaknesses occurred when people shot the New Smokeless cartridges, so Winchester Offered them a brand new shotgun of choice when they returned the 1893...
Note to that a few 1897's were produced with Damascus Barrels and are very Rare.
Rich

littlejoe872 · 05-29-2007, 09:23 PM

Thanks Rich, that eases my mind a lot. You don't happen to know what markings on the barrel tell if it's a Damascus barrel, by any chance?

Mooseman684 · 05-29-2007, 09:30 PM

If it is Damascus Steel, it will look like no other under a brite light...It will appear as twisted and welded by forging, lots of colors from the process...
Rich

littlejoe872 · 05-29-2007, 09:33 PM

Thanks, Rich. After I get down to the metal when I clean it, I'll let you know if It is a Damascus barrel. I guess I am being a little sarcastic.

samuel · 05-29-2007, 09:35 PM

When I was a teenager they had just come out with 3" mags.My cousin had a model 97 win.and somehow got a 3" mag in it and fired it.He said it kicked hard but it didnt blow up.He had to take the barrel off to get the casing out but otherwise it was okay.We often shot 2 3/4" mags in it.I believe mooseman is right about one that didnt have the barrel that could be taken off easily.I cant remember but there was one that noone wanted.I also remember getting my fingers pinched several times. samuel.

JoeLee · 05-29-2007, 09:39 PM

If it's a made in 1897 take it to a real Gunsmith before trigger pull.

littlejoe872 · 05-29-2007, 09:44 PM

It was made in 1905, according to the serial #. I plan on taking it to a gunsmith anyway. It literally sat for years, possibly decades in my father-in-law's friend's house, until he passed away. I wish I could say that it sat in a safe, or cabinet, but by the looks of it, wherever it was kept, it wasn't very moisture free. My father-in-law got the gun, and knew I wanted one, so he gave it to me.

JoeLee · 05-29-2007, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by littlejoe872

It was made in 1905, according to the serial #. I plan on taking it to a gunsmith anyway. It literally sat for years, possibly decades in my father-in-law's friend's house, until he passed away. I wish I could say that it sat in a safe, or cabinet, but by the looks of it, wherever it was kept, it wasn't very moisture free. My father-in-law got the gun, and knew I wanted one, so he gave it to me.

1897-1905 "same same" take it to a Smith not us experts.Eyes are worth more then all the guns in the World!!

Mooseman684 · 05-29-2007, 10:01 PM

I almost got one that was in terrible shape, rusted like it layed on a beach for a year, but the guy wouldn't sell it to me for 50 bucks, but I would have rebuilt it over the next few years as a "Tough Project" challenge had I acquired it... They are fine shooters , and I don't know what the concern is about shooting them, if the Bore is clean and the barrel to action is tight, there is No reason for alarm with an 1897, they are tough as heck and battle proven...Parts are Hard to come by as far as Originals, and re-assembling the breech block and Hammer spring and Hammer is a real Pain in the butt, so don't take it apart if you can help it, I have the Manual and it is a real booger still. You don't have a Damascus if yours is that late made so Have fun shooting it !
Rich

JoeLee · 05-29-2007, 10:25 PM

littlejoe,Let Mooseman proof test it.

littlejoe872 · 05-29-2007, 10:34 PM

Allow me to quote myself....

Quote:

Originally Posted by littlejoe872

I plan on taking it to a gunsmith anyway.

Mooseman684 · 05-29-2007, 10:37 PM

I thought you were a Gunsmith of sorts, You have always impressed me with your Knowledge and projects you have done in the past !
Rich

littlejoe872 · 05-29-2007, 11:09 PM

Normally, I would just clean her up and head on down to the range. However, this one is a little different, given the age, and general condition of this particular gun, and the fact that this is my first shotgun, believe it or not. I don't really have the confidence I usually would in my ability.

Mooseman684 · 05-29-2007, 11:15 PM

Thats Good, If you don't feel Confident, as Safety should always be paramount ! I respect that as should your Gunsmith !
Rich

05-29-2007, 08:53 PM	#1
littlejoe872 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Rockland County, NY Posts: 364 Images: 20	Winchester 1897 Ammunition Question I've been looking on-line a bit, and I've seen conflicting information about this shotgun. One camp says that regarding ammunition, you can't shoot 2 3/4" shells in this gun because the receiver isn't long enough, and too much pressure is built up. The other says that this is true for the Model 1893 shotgun, which was made to shoot black powder loads and the Model 1897 is ok to shoot 2 3/4" shells. Most of the ammo I've seen online here is 2 3/4". Can anyone clear this up for me. I tried posting in the other thread, but it kept auto-merging with my last post, and not showing up in New Posts. Thanks again.

05-29-2007, 08:54 PM	#2
ezearln Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 3,175	You may be in a bind as many moons ago some shotgun stuff was all loaded in 2 1/2 " shells as I recall... __________________ "You can have my Freedom when I'm done with it!"

05-29-2007, 08:59 PM	#4
ezearln Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 3,175	Don't worry lil joe, most times all of us is a bit confused! __________________ "You can have my Freedom when I'm done with it!"

05-29-2007, 09:21 PM	#5
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 10,572 Images: 2	Hey Buddy, The Model 1897 was the first Winchester shotgun chambered for 2-3/4 " Smokeless Shells....Just before Producing the 1897, The Model 1893 was for Black powder in 2-5/8" and my book says that mechanical weaknesses occurred when people shot the New Smokeless cartridges, so Winchester Offered them a brand new shotgun of choice when they returned the 1893... Note to that a few 1897's were produced with Damascus Barrels and are very Rare. Rich __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

05-29-2007, 09:30 PM	#7
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 10,572 Images: 2	If it is Damascus Steel, it will look like no other under a brite light...It will appear as twisted and welded by forging, lots of colors from the process... Rich __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

05-29-2007, 08:58 PM	#3
littlejoe872 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Rockland County, NY Posts: 364 Images: 20	That would go along with the 2 5/8" because from what I read, it goes by the length of the un-crimped spent shell. I'm confused

05-29-2007, 09:23 PM	#6
littlejoe872 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Rockland County, NY Posts: 364 Images: 20	Thanks Rich, that eases my mind a lot. You don't happen to know what markings on the barrel tell if it's a Damascus barrel, by any chance?

05-29-2007, 09:33 PM	#8
littlejoe872 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Rockland County, NY Posts: 364 Images: 20	Thanks, Rich. After I get down to the metal when I clean it, I'll let you know if It is a Damascus barrel. I guess I am being a little sarcastic.

05-29-2007, 09:35 PM	#9
samuel Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5,237	When I was a teenager they had just come out with 3" mags.My cousin had a model 97 win.and somehow got a 3" mag in it and fired it.He said it kicked hard but it didnt blow up.He had to take the barrel off to get the casing out but otherwise it was okay.We often shot 2 3/4" mags in it.I believe mooseman is right about one that didnt have the barrel that could be taken off easily.I cant remember but there was one that noone wanted.I also remember getting my fingers pinched several times. samuel.

05-29-2007, 09:39 PM	#10
JoeLee Banned Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: North New York State. Posts: 1,241	If it's a made in 1897 take it to a real Gunsmith before trigger pull.

05-29-2007, 09:44 PM	#11
littlejoe872 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Rockland County, NY Posts: 364 Images: 20	It was made in 1905, according to the serial #. I plan on taking it to a gunsmith anyway. It literally sat for years, possibly decades in my father-in-law's friend's house, until he passed away. I wish I could say that it sat in a safe, or cabinet, but by the looks of it, wherever it was kept, it wasn't very moisture free. My father-in-law got the gun, and knew I wanted one, so he gave it to me.

05-29-2007, 10:01 PM	#13
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 10,572 Images: 2	I almost got one that was in terrible shape, rusted like it layed on a beach for a year, but the guy wouldn't sell it to me for 50 bucks, but I would have rebuilt it over the next few years as a "Tough Project" challenge had I acquired it... They are fine shooters , and I don't know what the concern is about shooting them, if the Bore is clean and the barrel to action is tight, there is No reason for alarm with an 1897, they are tough as heck and battle proven...Parts are Hard to come by as far as Originals, and re-assembling the breech block and Hammer spring and Hammer is a real Pain in the butt, so don't take it apart if you can help it, I have the Manual and it is a real booger still. You don't have a Damascus if yours is that late made so Have fun shooting it ! Rich __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

05-29-2007, 10:25 PM	#14
JoeLee Banned Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: North New York State. Posts: 1,241	littlejoe,Let Mooseman proof test it.

05-29-2007, 10:37 PM	#16
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 10,572 Images: 2	I thought you were a Gunsmith of sorts, You have always impressed me with your Knowledge and projects you have done in the past ! Rich __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

05-29-2007, 11:09 PM	#17
littlejoe872 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Rockland County, NY Posts: 364 Images: 20	Normally, I would just clean her up and head on down to the range. However, this one is a little different, given the age, and general condition of this particular gun, and the fact that this is my first shotgun, believe it or not. I don't really have the confidence I usually would in my ability.

05-29-2007, 11:15 PM	#18
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 10,572 Images: 2	Thats Good, If you don't feel Confident, as Safety should always be paramount ! I respect that as should your Gunsmith ! Rich __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!