Model 94 surprise

just_a_car · 08-06-2007, 02:11 AM

So, I knew my father had a lever action rifle and he said it was chambered in .25-35. I did some research and found that it pretty much had to be a Winchester Model 94. Problem was, it was buried somewhere in the garage and was missing the buttstock and some screws.

Well, my father and I cleaned a bunch of the garage today and I found it. I confirmed that it is indeed a Model 1894. It also has quite a bit of surface rust around the muzzle and down the barrel/magazine-tube.

Since I want to get it back into serviceable condition, I went online to research cost of parts. I found a site for disassembly of the Model 94 that said "All the Model 94 parts lists I've read clearly state that flat mainspring trigger/tang assemblies are used on rifles SN 4,580,000 and below." and I noticed the number on the bottom of the rifle was 62,XXX. I immediately knew that this could be a very early production model and went to tell my father.

He had previously told me that his father (born around 1903) and uncle had taken many a Montana deer with this rifle and that it had been owned by his father's father. When I told him of the possible early-manufacture, he said he'd be interested in knowing the year. So I went to check online.

I found this simple site where you put the serial number in and it tells you the Winchester Date of Manufacture. It came up as 1896, the third year of production and the second year it was offered in .25-35.

Now, in it's current condition I'm sure the value is greatly decreased, but I'll bet it's got some serious collector's value. That being said, the sentimental/heirloom value to me, personally, is priceless, since it's something of my grandfather's that I never got to meet. I almost feel it's a kind of link to a past that I can never access otherwise.

...man, I love firearms.

HEMI · 08-06-2007, 02:32 AM

Priceless, get it fixed up use it and pass it on to a loved one.
You have something that must be reincarnated.

just_a_car · 08-18-2007, 08:18 PM

Okay, I finally have pictures of it: just_a_car/Winchester - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

There are quite a few so I'll just link to them, but I want to post the one that shows the serial number as an attachment. I'm also going to post the one that gives me the most pride; the one looking down the sight that my grandfather looked down before he took a deer. Feels like stepping back in time to somehow know him where I couldn't know him at all before.

ArkansasHunter · 08-18-2007, 09:29 PM

J-A-C you ever notice that the steel in those old guns seem to with stand rust much better than later steels ?
The first time i ever deer hunted I used one of those, my father borrowed it from his boss.
I had 4 cartridges and was told don't shoot it unless you shoot at a deer and if you do, find the empty brass and return it them, because the guy reloaded them.
I had entirely forgotten this until now. Fixer up feller...A.H

just_a_car · 08-18-2007, 09:37 PM

Funny thing is, the muzzle was all brown with surface rust and there's surface rust all over it. But it looks like it will come out with a light application of some 00-0000 steel wool.

It might be the Nickel in the steel that helps inhibit the rust... no idea.

I've got a buttstock and a screw set on the way to refurb this baby and get her shootin' again! I even bought a Hoppe's .22+ caliber cleaning rod (only had a .30+) and .243/.25 brush.

I couldn't see any bore before and there was a lot of cobwebs in there. Now I can just make out the rifling after a few runs with some trusty Hoppe's No 9.

Hoping to get it all ready to shoot by the time my father's birthday comes around in mid-November.

toolman · 08-18-2007, 10:20 PM

That's really cool JAC. FWIW, don't scrub on it with the bare steel wool. Try dipping the wool in automatic transmission fluid, it will finish without all of the scratch marks and the atf will help remove the rust without attacking the steel.

just_a_car · 08-18-2007, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toolman

That's really cool JAC. FWIW, don't scrub on it with the bare steel wool. Try dipping the wool in automatic transmission fluid, it will finish without all of the scratch marks and the atf will help remove the rust without attacking the steel.

Thanks for the tip, toolman!

I forgot to mention, if you look at the shot of the top of the tang with the model information on it, you can see the outline of where there was a tang-mounted target peep-sight. What's odd is this is a carbine and I thought only the long-barreled model 94's had the target sight.

ArkansasHunter · 08-18-2007, 11:55 PM

J-A-C wet it down good with Break Free CPL too !

ezearln · 08-19-2007, 12:38 AM

J-A-C you have a treasure there, I wish you all the best in it's restoration, hang on to it, it isn't an investment it's a part of your families history to be passed on with all of the tales and scents and passion which it has witnessed over the years as wel as the Love and connections it will inspire. Bless you pass it on Brother.

billy · 08-19-2007, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by just_a_car

Thanks for the tip, toolman!

I forgot to mention, if you look at the shot of the top of the tang with the model information on it, you can see the outline of where there was a tang-mounted target peep-sight. What's odd is this is a carbine and I thought only the long-barreled model 94's had the target sight.

those tang sights are the sweetest!
i love em .
AND THEY LOOK GREAT TOO!

god i would love to have one of those!
drool slobber slurp

toolman · 08-19-2007, 08:59 PM

JAC, that tang sight could've been added by a previous owner. If you want to reinstall one, given the age of the gun, it was probably either a Marbles or Lyman. This might give you some ideas on where to find a replacement.

just_a_car · 08-19-2007, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toolman

JAC, that tang sight could've been added by a previous owner. If you want to reinstall one, given the age of the gun, it was probably either a Marbles or Lyman. This might give you some ideas on where to find a replacement.

...and by previous owner, you mean either my grandfather or his brother, since they're the only other owners save for my father.

Thanks for the heads-up on the brand. I found a Marbles already on e-gunparts, but it's $126. I'm hoping that when/if I or my father find the original butt stock, we'll find the attaching hardware and perhaps the tang sight.

just_a_car · 08-23-2007, 06:32 AM

Just got finished disassembling the rifle to clean it. Man, the Finger Lever Pin and the screw that holds the lever into the receiver were pain the butt to remove!

I followed the directions at this site: Winchester Model 94 Disassembly
They worked pretty well, but, as I mentioned, the pin didn't come out nearly as easily as his did... likely due to being there for the last 111 years. Wow... that's the first time I realized just how old this rifle is.

Well, I took a bunch of pictures while taking her apart and will post those tomorrow. I'll also start cleaning her up with Hoppe's, Mineral Spirits and, if necessary, no-residue electric parts cleaner. At the moment, I'm too tired to do much else. I'll keep you all updated with the progress.... It's looking promising that I may get this all ready for Nov. 17th, my father's birthday. The screw set for the rifle came from Midway yesterday and the buttstock is set to arrive Friday. Heck, if everything goes well *crosses fingers and prays to the Boss upstairs* I could have this done this weekend and possibly get to functional test it..... I think I just wet myself.

billy · 08-23-2007, 07:20 AM

jac, that is such a cool thing you have going on.
the history of the rifle makes it even cooler.
some gunmakers have sales records.
it cost a little money but if you could get the pedigree on it that would increase its historical and dollar value.
if it were me i think it would be money well spent.
i would also throw the correct tang sight on it.

the way i look at it you got the rifle for nothing .
you could spend $500 on it and be way ahead.

just_a_car · 08-23-2007, 07:36 AM

Technically it's still my father's. So, as long as I out-live him, then yes, I will end up getting it for nothing.

I will end up putting the tang sight on.

I found so many proof stamps when I took it apart in all kinds of places... you guys are gunna love it!

I will also need to pick up a rear sight before that, though, so that I can even shoot it straight. I just wish it all wasn't so expensive: $100 + shipping for the rear sight; $125 + shipping for the tang sight; $41 for the screw set; $42.50 for the buttstock.... I've only purchased the last two, though. Then there's finding ammo for it: .25-35WCF.

Edit: Found that I can get Winchester Super-X 117gr SP ammo for ~$20/box (20rnds) + shipping on gunbroker.

billy · 08-23-2007, 08:06 AM

be sure that things safe to fire modern ammo!

toolman · 08-23-2007, 11:19 AM

JAC, where are you getting your parts? Those prices sound outrageous, try About Gun Parts! ...Bob's Gun Parts. Top Page Commercial Super Site. or use a business name to get them from Brownells - World's Largest Supplier of Firearm Accessories, Gun Parts and Gunsmithing Tools

just_a_car · 08-23-2007, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toolman

JAC, where are you getting your parts? Those prices sound outrageous, try About Gun Parts! ...Bob's Gun Parts. Top Page Commercial Super Site. or use a business name to get them from Brownells - World's Largest Supplier of Firearm Accessories, Gun Parts and Gunsmithing Tools

Brownells did not have any that were for this rifle.

The first one had them and if you look at this link, you will find them as the first two items on the right hand column... for $125 and $100. Same price.

Oxford · 08-23-2007, 05:08 PM

Just a car...that's a priceless windfall...something most gun collectors just dream about owning.

I'd be interested in seeing pic's of it when you're through doing your renovation work.

rondog · 08-23-2007, 05:54 PM

When I was like 14 or 15, my buddy Mark's older brother Rick bought an old Chevy from a farmer. While cleaning it up, they found a Marlin lever action rifle under some crap in the trunk. I can't recall the model, but it was late 1800-something, in .32 rimfire caliber. Wasn't in bad shape either. Rick didn't want it, so he gave it to Mark. Of course, he couldn't find ammo for it (this was in the early 70's, before Internet), so he had a local gunsmith make him a center-fire firing pin for it. Found some shells, and it shot just fine, but had a feeding issue. Accurate little gun though! I'm sure Mark still has it, haven't seen him in years.

08-06-2007, 02:11 AM	#1
just_a_car Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Edmonds, WA Posts: 3,639	Model 94 surprise So, I knew my father had a lever action rifle and he said it was chambered in .25-35. I did some research and found that it pretty much had to be a Winchester Model 94. Problem was, it was buried somewhere in the garage and was missing the buttstock and some screws. Well, my father and I cleaned a bunch of the garage today and I found it. I confirmed that it is indeed a Model 1894. It also has quite a bit of surface rust around the muzzle and down the barrel/magazine-tube. Since I want to get it back into serviceable condition, I went online to research cost of parts. I found a site for disassembly of the Model 94 that said "All the Model 94 parts lists I've read clearly state that flat mainspring trigger/tang assemblies are used on rifles SN 4,580,000 and below." and I noticed the number on the bottom of the rifle was 62,XXX. I immediately knew that this could be a very early production model and went to tell my father. He had previously told me that his father (born around 1903) and uncle had taken many a Montana deer with this rifle and that it had been owned by his father's father. When I told him of the possible early-manufacture, he said he'd be interested in knowing the year. So I went to check online. I found this simple site where you put the serial number in and it tells you the Winchester Date of Manufacture. It came up as 1896, the third year of production and the second year it was offered in .25-35. Now, in it's current condition I'm sure the value is greatly decreased, but I'll bet it's got some serious collector's value. That being said, the sentimental/heirloom value to me, personally, is *priceless*, since it's something of my grandfather's that I never got to meet. I almost feel it's a kind of link to a past that I can never access otherwise. ...man, I love firearms. __________________

08-18-2007, 09:37 PM	#5
just_a_car Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Edmonds, WA Posts: 3,639	Funny thing is, the muzzle was all brown with surface rust and there's surface rust all over it. But it looks like it will come out with a light application of some 00-0000 steel wool. It might be the Nickel in the steel that helps inhibit the rust... no idea. I've got a buttstock and a screw set on the way to refurb this baby and get her shootin' again! I even bought a Hoppe's .22+ caliber cleaning rod (only had a .30+) and .243/.25 brush. I couldn't see any bore before and there was a lot of cobwebs in there. Now I can just make out the rifling after a few runs with some trusty Hoppe's No 9. Hoping to get it all ready to shoot by the time my father's birthday comes around in mid-November. __________________

08-18-2007, 10:20 PM	#6
toolman Mr. Fixit Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: abilene,tx Posts: 5,865 Blog Entries: 24	That's really cool JAC. FWIW, don't scrub on it with the bare steel wool. Try dipping the wool in automatic transmission fluid, it will finish without all of the scratch marks and the atf will help remove the rust without attacking the steel. __________________ cosmoline is an aphrodisiac!

08-19-2007, 12:38 AM	#9
ezearln Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 3,175	J-A-C you have a treasure there, I wish you all the best in it's restoration, hang on to it, it isn't an investment it's a part of your families history to be passed on with all of the tales and scents and passion which it has witnessed over the years as wel as the Love and connections it will inspire. Bless you pass it on Brother. __________________ "You can have my Freedom when I'm done with it!"

08-19-2007, 08:59 PM	#11
toolman Mr. Fixit Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: abilene,tx Posts: 5,865 Blog Entries: 24	JAC, that tang sight could've been added by a previous owner. If you want to reinstall one, given the age of the gun, it was probably either a Marbles or Lyman. This might give you some ideas on where to find a replacement. __________________ cosmoline is an aphrodisiac!

08-06-2007, 02:32 AM	#2
HEMI Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 828	Priceless, get it fixed up use it and pass it on to a loved one. You have something that must be reincarnated.

08-18-2007, 09:29 PM	#4
ArkansasHunter Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: South Arkansas Posts: 10,998	J-A-C you ever notice that the steel in those old guns seem to with stand rust much better than later steels ? The first time i ever deer hunted I used one of those, my father borrowed it from his boss. I had 4 cartridges and was told don't shoot it unless you shoot at a deer and if you do, find the empty brass and return it them, because the guy reloaded them. I had entirely forgotten this until now. Fixer up feller...A.H

08-18-2007, 11:55 PM	#8
ArkansasHunter Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: South Arkansas Posts: 10,998	J-A-C wet it down good with Break Free CPL too !

08-23-2007, 06:32 AM	#13
just_a_car Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Edmonds, WA Posts: 3,639	Just got finished disassembling the rifle to clean it. Man, the Finger Lever Pin and the screw that holds the lever into the receiver were pain the butt to remove! I followed the directions at this site: Winchester Model 94 Disassembly They worked pretty well, but, as I mentioned, the pin didn't come out nearly as easily as his did... likely due to being there for the last 111 years. Wow... that's the first time I realized just how old this rifle is. Well, I took a bunch of pictures while taking her apart and will post those tomorrow. I'll also start cleaning her up with Hoppe's, Mineral Spirits and, if necessary, no-residue electric parts cleaner. At the moment, I'm too tired to do much else. I'll keep you all updated with the progress.... It's looking promising that I may get this all ready for Nov. 17th, my father's birthday. The screw set for the rifle came from Midway yesterday and the buttstock is set to arrive Friday. Heck, if everything goes well crosses fingers and prays to the Boss upstairs I could have this done this weekend and possibly get to functional test it..... I think I just wet myself. __________________

08-23-2007, 07:20 AM	#14
billy spiritual counselor Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: a secret lab on the shores of lake titicaca Posts: 14,347 Images: 9 Blog Entries: 154	jac, that is such a cool thing you have going on. the history of the rifle makes it even cooler. some gunmakers have sales records. it cost a little money but if you could get the pedigree on it that would increase its historical and dollar value. if it were me i think it would be money well spent. i would also throw the correct tang sight on it. the way i look at it you got the rifle for nothing . you could spend $500 on it and be way ahead. __________________ "I would never die for my beliefs because what if I'm wrong?"- Bertrand Russell Last edited by billy; 08-23-2007 at 07:21 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

08-23-2007, 07:36 AM	#15
just_a_car Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Edmonds, WA Posts: 3,639	Technically it's still my father's. So, as long as I out-live him, then yes, I will end up getting it for nothing. I will end up putting the tang sight on. I found so many proof stamps when I took it apart in all kinds of places... you guys are gunna love it! I will also need to pick up a rear sight before that, though, so that I can even shoot it straight. I just wish it all wasn't so expensive: $100 + shipping for the rear sight; $125 + shipping for the tang sight; $41 for the screw set; $42.50 for the buttstock.... I've only purchased the last two, though. Then there's finding ammo for it: .25-35WCF. Edit: Found that I can get Winchester Super-X 117gr SP ammo for ~$20/box (20rnds) + shipping on gunbroker. __________________ Last edited by just_a_car; 08-23-2007 at 07:42 AM.

08-23-2007, 08:06 AM	#16
billy spiritual counselor Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: a secret lab on the shores of lake titicaca Posts: 14,347 Images: 9 Blog Entries: 154	be sure that things safe to fire modern ammo! __________________ "I would never die for my beliefs because what if I'm wrong?"- Bertrand Russell

08-23-2007, 11:19 AM	#17
toolman Mr. Fixit Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: abilene,tx Posts: 5,865 Blog Entries: 24	JAC, where are you getting your parts? Those prices sound outrageous, try About Gun Parts! ...Bob's Gun Parts. Top Page Commercial Super Site. or use a business name to get them from Brownells - World's Largest Supplier of Firearm Accessories, Gun Parts and Gunsmithing Tools __________________ cosmoline is an aphrodisiac! Last edited by toolman; 08-23-2007 at 11:21 AM.

08-23-2007, 05:08 PM	#19
Oxford Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Gladstone, Missouri Posts: 13,110 Blog Entries: 4	Just a car...that's a priceless windfall...something most gun collectors just dream about owning. I'd be interested in seeing pic's of it when you're through doing your renovation work. __________________ "If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right".

08-23-2007, 05:54 PM	#20
rondog Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Parker, CO Posts: 1,582	When I was like 14 or 15, my buddy Mark's older brother Rick bought an old Chevy from a farmer. While cleaning it up, they found a Marlin lever action rifle under some crap in the trunk. I can't recall the model, but it was late 1800-something, in .32 rimfire caliber. Wasn't in bad shape either. Rick didn't want it, so he gave it to Mark. Of course, he couldn't find ammo for it (this was in the early 70's, before Internet), so he had a local gunsmith make him a center-fire firing pin for it. Found some shells, and it shot just fine, but had a feeding issue. Accurate little gun though! I'm sure Mark still has it, haven't seen him in years.