Winchester 490

[bakengdeuce]

I just bought a new/used winne 490 and all I read is that they jam and perform poorly ? What ammo seems
to work best in these guns, if any?

[.22hustler]

I just bought a M-490 back in Sept. It also was like new/used in the original box with ops manual. I haven't fired it yet but this gun was so dirty I don't believe it would have functioned very well. I have a M-290, bought new in 1971, and it has yet to jam on me.All said, just keep it clean, and use CCI mini-mags. They seem to work best in everything, their quality is great, and they're not that dirty of ammo. Just don't buy Remington Thunderbolts?. Worst junk on the market. One problem I've heard of in the Model 490 was premature firing of the next round going into the chamber. That said, even though I haven't fired mine, I love it!!!

I'm probaly going to take the model-490 to my buddies tomorrow and sight in the new scope. I've got 200rds of new CCI mini-mags I'll be using. I'll post something Sunday night if the weather for shooting isn't too bad.

[bakengdeuce]

Thank you for responding. My 490 hasn't showed
up yet, and I'm suspicious about this new/used
condition also. Mine is coming w.o. papers or box.
As for CCI ammunition, I bought 2 boxes of Hyper velocity, 40 gr. last week in anticipation. My wife has a 10/22 and that gun loves CCI and hates everything else. When I examing the shell, itself,
there seem to be fewer ridges around the circ. which could hang up during loading.
The thing I liked about the 490 was the fact that it is all steel. And it's a pretty too.

[two-70]

.2hustler is right about the thunderbolts, bad ammo period

[.22hustler]

I took my M-490 to my buddies range Sunday morning, in the sleet, ice, and snow.. I also brought along my M-290, and a old Stevens Model-53B Buckhorn single shot. All with scopes. The last time I fired them(three weeks ago), I was using the Remington Thunderbolts and couldn't get a decent group, let alone consistency. My Model 290, which hasn't jam since new(1971) gave me fits. I gave away the remaining 300 rounds, and bought CCI mini-mags. The difference is like night and day.My M-290 holds nickel-size groups all day at 50yds. The little Stevens Buckhorn is even better, but not much. The M-490 is a different animal. As Bakengduece said, it's indeed pretty, but wait till you shoot it!!!! This thing is SWEET!!!No problems whatsoever with feeding/jamming,etc. It's a wonderful rifle with alot of weight. weiieght. It has the same iron sights on it as does my Winchester M-88 in .308. It holds a very tight group at 50yds, and this is no doubtgh my favorite rifle.The only problemsels I had with it are putting the mag into the rifle itself, a little tricky and time consuming, and I couldn't get more than 5 rounds into the mag. I thought the owners manual stated a 7 round capacity total, but I could be wrong. Still a great looking and performing .>22. I always keep my auto-loaders squeaky clean and use a very light oil, them mostly wipe it off. .22 ammo is dirty, and you'll see a fast build-up with an oily gun. Try and get an owners manula, repo if possible. It's a must have in order to break it down correctly and clean it. When I recieved my 490, it had a clean barrel but that was it. I followed the owners manual but still couldn't get the bolt out because of crud. After soaking it for 24hrs, and a little persuasion, it did come out and the inner guts behind and around the bolt were filthy!! I got it clean and used 2000 grit wet/dry paper and polished all the working surfaces on the bolt.If you can't locate an owners manual, I'll copy mine and send it out to you. I'm not a very good computer geek, so my son will have to help, as you can tell by my delete button not working!!! I try to anwser mail within 24-48 hrs Good luck.... PS..I emptyied the clip into a dime-sized group at 50yds, as fast as accurately as possible. LOVE taht 490!!!w>tBuall I gave aw

[Dan22]

Hustler,

Glad to hear someone else likes the Winchester 490. It feels very good and it's all steel.

What ammo are you using?

I don't feed anything through an auto except for copper clads. I learned from .22 Auto pistols that solid lead can get nicked on feeding so the harder copper feeds much better.

Those clips are either 5 or 10 shots. If it's flush with the bottom of the stock it's a five.

[.22hustler]

Hi Dan.. I was using CCI minimags, clad in copper. I've used these before years ago, but went to something cheaper, Winchester, and always got good results. I'll stay with the mini-mags from now on...The clip is flush with the stock, so we'll call it the five shot mag. My thanks to you for your assistance..A little story about the M-490.I first saw this .22 went it came out yrs ago,late70's early 80's? I believe the price was approx $185 or so.That was a weeks pay for me, and with a non-working ex-wife, 2 babies, car and house payments, and me only bringing home $170 a week, the gun purchase was put off. Back in Sept of this year, I saw one at a hardware store/gun shop/antique store. Original box, with the ops manual. He was asking, get ready, $599.99 for it, hardly used! I did some horse trading with a surplus Enfield .303, and bought the gun for $400.00 even. I waited 25-7 years for that gun, and I was going to walk out the store with it!! Over-paid, maybe..... But that 490 is the prettiest gun I've seen in a long time, next to my Winchester M-88. And it runs like a scalded dog!! Just plain love it!!!

Bakengduece, there's a nice repo owners manual on ebay for your M-490. Worth the price if you want to keep it clean....Go to sporting, then just type in model 490 winchester, should get you there...

[bakengdeuce]

Hustler
The 490 is in- pick it up tomorrow morning. The gunsmith(FFL) saw I paid 475 for it and about died. He looked at me like I had multiple screws loose. I have the manual here in front of me. I ordered it from "Rediscovered shooting treasures" in Traverse City Michigan and I started to read up on it and decided to go to this page here first. I'm relieved you like the gun.If you had said it was a piece of shit, I would have sat up all night worrying about what I was going to find tomorrow morning, and . . how I was going to explain my activities to my wife. . .and what was with this new/used junk gun. You've made it possible for a good nights sleep.
I'll let you know how it shoots and what it looks like. Your groups are way out of my league. I just
try to get close to the bullseye at 65 yards. Although
I can frequently hit a tennis ball at 100 yards with
my M1 Carbine and it has just the standard peep sight. Thanks again for your help.Austin

[.22hustler]

Hey duece.. Your price reflects about the same as what I paid for mine. Go on line and try to find one!! If it's half as nice as mine, you'll love it. Don't forget, even a piece of shit can be fixed!! But don't worry, it should shoot and function fine. Just keep it clean, very easy thing to do. Glad you found a owners manual. You have to have it to break it down completely. My bolt wouldn't come out at first, but after soaking it over-night, out she came. I just rotated it alittle in the reciever and apparently it broke free of the crude. To get it back in, just follow the manual. It will take a good force backwards to get it to seat again, and to move past the hmammer, but just give it a good pull, it'll go. Hope all this helps, and give me a note as to what the new member looks like!!! Dam delete button won't work again!!hu

Your shooting is alot better than mine,Duece. I have a bushnell 3x9 scope on it, the 490 that is..I shot expert with a M-16 back in 1970 when I got drafted. Peep sights too. I don't want to get into a gun fight with you!!! Let me know how you make out!!

[bakengdeuce]

.22 hustler, I picked up my 490 this morning and it is probably the most beautiful gun I've ever held.Not 1 scratch or dent in the wood. It's perfect. I"ll take it to the range tomorrow and see if it works. If you want to see this gun type in
Gunbroker.com in google and click on the gunbroker
web page. When it comes up type in the following
number in the space at the top where it says search. 84898752. I'll post here tomorrow night when back from the range. I'm also going to shoot for the first time a little JC Higgans .22 that I bought for 45.00 at a pawn shop- took completely apart, bought new parts from Numrich, installed them and completely re-did the stock. Really cute
gun. Cute but not beautiful. Take a look at that 490.It's actually prettier than the pictures.Austin

[.22hustler]

Outstanding Duece!!! I'm glad you got such a pretty specimen!!! Mine is also beautiful, that's what I thought 20some odd years ago when I first saw it, and when I saw it again several months ago!! If it looks that good, I wouldn't be surprised that it's been babied all it's life, and should function like a dream. Mine is sweet, and I'm glad your's came out even better!! Post the pix, and I'll have to go to the other site for a look see. Again, way to go!!! I'm sure you'll like the JC Higgans. Like I posted earlier, I have a little Stevens Buckhorn 53B single shot that my uncle gave my dad some 50 years ago. It was painted with a black stock with silver paint on the barrel and other metal parts. It also had my uncles initials carved into the stock about an inch high and approx 1/8 deep!! I refinished it back in 1972 but it was a very amateur job. I took my time this time and did a fairly decent job on it. Got the initials out by straight sanding with a sanding block, stripped all the metal parts, and polished them with 2000 grit wet/dry paper. The barrel was like a mirror and took the blueing perfectly. I fooled around and found some scope mounts that would work as the barrel was drilled and tapped. I put on a long eye relief scope and this little gun is just super. What a joy...Both my Dad and uncle are long gone, but I know my uncle would be pleased to see his little gun so nice. Dad never hunted or bothered with firearms. I guess that's what happens when you served in a combat zone for years. He was in China, Burma, and India, Second World War.. Tough place !!

Hey duece..Just checked out your 490. What a beauty!! That one is nicer than mine!!! I have a factory-blemish on a small piece of the stock. Nothing too bad but you can spot it when you look at it carefully. Yours is immaculate!!! Worth every penny, in my opinion!!! Wait till you shoot it!!! The term "tack-driver" is over-used, but in this case, justified!! I'll try to post some pix of mine but like I said, I'm no computer geek. If you can post your pix, run me through the procedure, or I can send them to your e-mail. Your choice. Again, nice score. I'm impressed. Maybe we shouldn't brag about this little beast. It might drive the prices up even higher, and I know I want another one!! HaHa.

[bakengdeuce]

Well hustler, the 490 is a better shot than I. I have some work to do before we're friends. One stinking bullseye at 65 yards. Still the open sights. However, that wasn't the problem.
1. I had bought from Numrich, 2, 10 shot magazines. Both failed after about 20 rounds thru
each. The stakes that hold the sides on failed at the top. and the magazines flaired out to such an extent that they would no longer insert thru the gap. I tapped them back together several times and then just used the 5 shot magazine.
2. I just finished cleaning the gun. I ran about 150
rounds thru it. Boy was it filthy. Really filthy. Really
really filthy. Wonder why ?
Also the factory had used some wrong sized screws with too large a heads on them so I couldn't just remove the clip holder frame because the head on the rear screw ran into the trigger housing, and I never figured out how to take that thing apart. It was restrained by a spring inside that I couldn't get to release.
Having spent my whole career in designing machinery and airplanes I frequently look at products and try to determing why some succeed
and others pass off into history. This 490 is such an example. An absolutely beautiful gun. Why isn't
it still around ? The 10/22 is !
For starters, if the 10 shot magazines were typical, then the gun was only good for 5 shots. And, plunking that damn magazine in the receiver is no
slam dunk either. Secondly, it's difficult to take apart and clean. Right now as I sit here smelling like solvent and gun oil(slippery though) I dread going out to shoot again because of the cleaning details. What I need is a 55 gallon drum of cleaner,
and a drum of oil. Then I could slosh the gun up and down in the first then the second, hang it out
to dry, and go shoot some more. I'll work on that
plan. Everything considered, after I got it all back together I looked at that gun, and I sez to me -
Thats still the most beautiful gun I've ever held or
cleaned, and I promise you, my beloved 490 we will
become best friends. I promise. Austin

[.22hustler]

Hi deuce...Well, I see the first date didn't go very well. It will get better, believe me. let's take this one step at a time.....I understand about you not hitting much, but understand, that's the thing with iron sights. They are good ones on the 490, but still iron sights. Hitting a bullseye with them at 65 yds is in my opinion, pretty darn good!! I have a 3x9 Bushnell variable scope on my 490. It was made for this gun. In fact, I have 3x9 variables on all my rifles.. A Winchester M-88, Winchester M-290, and a 2x7 variable on my little Stevens. as you can tell, I like scopes.... It looks like those mags you bought were just plain junk. Maybe finding some originals would be the way to go. And I also had a heckuva time trying to get the magazine to fit into the rifle. My son couldn't do it at all, but I think he was a little apprehensive about screwing up Dad's new gun..>>My 490 also has the same problem with the over-size screws you are talking about. I just wiggle everything around as I back out the screws and that seems to work. It's a bear getting it back in though. Why this particular model gets so darn dirty, so fast, is beyond me. But for me, cleaning them is part of the joy in owning/shooting them. It's like changing your kids diaper.. A shitty job for sure, but one that's full of love. EEEWWWW!!! And even when your done, smelling like solvent and oil, and the wife yelling at you because your doing/cleaning it again on her dining room table, it still is the prettiest gun in the cabinet....I'm going to try and post some pix this weekend when my son comes home from college. He's the brain here, along with my wife..Hopefully, the weather will co-operate for him. He goes to a state university at Oswego, right on the shores of Lake Ontario, and it's not unusual for them to get a foot of snow an hour, for HOURS!!! Such fun..Keep me posted. Lorenn

[bakengdeuce]

That one particular screw was a slotted head,with a large head. My downloaded manual shows a phillips head screw with a pan head, that would be one heck of a lot smaller head diameter which means one could get it in and out without loosening the trigger assembly from the receiver.
Of course, at the time today when I was arguing with it I didn't have enough brains to look at the size or the length. As a mater of fact I don't even know if it is american or metric. These guns were
made in Canada, so who knows what they were using that week. Memory says it was 10-32/ about 3/8 long.
As for the clips, the 10 shot looked identical to the 5 in construction. I kind of assume, the 10 had some QC problems. I'm going back to the range about friday. I'll report back then. Austin

[.22hustler]

Duece, I took mine apart tonight to clean. It was dirty, but not bad. I know of the screw of which you speak. My owners manual also says a phillips screw, and indeed shows one. I loosend the trigger guard screw to get mine back in, and when I retightened it, somehow it must have made contact with the bottom of the bolt, causing it to not return fully. This might happen to yours if you do the same thing so be careful. I had a heckavu time reassembling it tonight! All thumbs. Good luck Friday..Loren

[bakengdeuce]

Loren, I took mine apart friday night and had trouble putting the breech bolt back in. . .until I loosened the trigger guard assembly. Once those 2 big screws were backed out the breech went right back in like it should. Two things. 1. why isn't this mentioned in the disassembly instructions and 2. Even by taking the trigger guard screws all the way out, that trigger guard won't come free of the receiver. It's hanging on something and that's even with the bolt completely out. It's almost like it's restrained by another spring. I looked in the hole with the bolt out and saw a protrusion up into the bolt area but it should not keep the trigger assembly from dropping free. I've tried to find a cross sectional drawing of this whole assembly but to no avail.
Next, I inquired on the ammunition sight here about cleaner ammunition and I got a response about a weak recoil spring ??. That may be why this gun comes home from shooting so filthy dirty. I blamed blow by and blow by would be caused by the shell coming out of the barrel too soon bringing blow back gasses with it on it's way out.
Do you know a gunsmith you could ask these sorts of questions. I would also be curious if you took out the two big screws on the trigger assembly and if that assembly fell free of the receiver. Mine does not and I think it should. The reason I'm curious is it would be easier to put the bolt back in, etc. and then add the trigger
assembly so it would go into the right position and not hang on the bottom of the bolt. . . .Still love the gun. It just has a few engineering fuck ups. When we finally get it right we'll rewrite the disassembly manual for all the other 10 or 12 souls that kept their rifles. Austin

[.22hustler]

Well, I tried to post an answer to you but the gosh-dang computer hung up, so here goes again...I can not get my trigger group out either, but it does seem to be loose. I just don't want to try and take it off without some type of manual/instructions. On the topic of that front screw, if I tighten that front screw up, it protrudes into the reciever and hangs the bolt up. Leaving it just snug seems to be the answer, but I'm not comfortable with that. Maybe a small star lock washer will make up for the difference in the length of the screw. I'm going to try that, and see what happens. I didn't have that problem the first time I dis-assembeled the rifle, but I didn't loosen those screws either. About your bolt hanging up without looseneing the trigger group. I believed the same thing was happening to me, but I think I now know the answer. What's hanging up I believe is the rod on the bolt that goes into the recess/hole, near the stock. I put my bolt into the reciever without the charging handle just for shits and grins, and the darn thing plopped right into position, (bolt open position). I took the bolt out and reinstalled with the charging handle and couldn't get it in. I jiggled it around a bit and that rod found it's sweet spot and again just fell into place.. If you got the time, and balls, try it!! I'm positive that's whats causing the seemingly hang-ups. If that rod doesn't find the hole, you can use two hands and still not get that bolt to go backwards. I know, I've tried!! Possibly the same thing happened to you, and it was just dumb luck that when you loosened those two bolts, the rod found it's right-ful place?? This little beauty is going to take some time getting to know her, but I think with a little slapping around, she'll come clean!! Another thing is buy that spring if you can find it. It seems like you're on the right track with your thinking. If anything, at least you'll have a spare part. I have Winchester shotguns, and two other rifles, and whenever I see a part for them on sale I try to justify it and buy them. Just in case! I'll ask a gunsmith the questions about the trigger guard assembly when I get a chance to get out. I'm dis-abled so it's a little hard to walk. The computer is now getting to be a good friend!! I'm going to try and post a few pictures. Stay tuned and good luck.

I've got some pix but the files are too big for this type, or something.. I'll have to change something!! Give me time...>>>

[bakengdeuce]

It's only a matter of time before someone else who owns one of these 490's chimes in and tell us how to take this damn thing apart and put it back together again like Humpty Dumpty and we're both going to be standing around looking stupid saying, "Yea we knew that all along." I'm going to go out and shoot at the range friday, get the gun filthy again, and will then have the opportunity to argue
with this bolt assembly all over again.
Hopefully, someone will come to the rescue before weeks end. Austin

[.22hustler]

It looks like we're learning something, but who knows what!..Good luck at the range and let me know how you make out...Loren

[Dan22]

Here's an old thread with some pictures of the 490 cleaning sequence.

Mine does not have the phillips head screw either. BE CAREFUL not to twist the barrel when removing from receiver as you could damage the extractor lever. Just tap and wiggle it out.

(Winchester Model 490 .22 autoloader)http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/22-rimfire/40246-winchester-model-490-22-autoloader.html