Need appraiser to look at winchester model 1903 .22 cal automatic serial # 556

SmokeJumper · 11-16-2009, 04:19 AM

Greetings all!
My father-in-law is suffering from Alzheimers and the family is now in the process of liquidating his lifes accumulated belongings.
Twenty-five years ago, he passed on to me a Winchester Model 1903 --- .22 Caliber Automatic --- Serial Number 556.
I have been told by a local "gun expert" (???) that this rifel is from the very first year of production as well as being number 556 produced --- out of an approximate total production run of 114,992 -- produced from 1903 through 1936 when the model was discontinued.
He informs me this was the very first "automatic" produced by Winchester; the 1903 replacing the former rifels which were "black powder".
The 1903 22 caliber appears to have been (and remains so today) a special .22 Caliber round that differs from those we have today. It appears as if this special .22 cartridge is not interchangeable with any / all other 22 caliber cartridges.
If what I am told by this "expert" is true, even though this gun has obviously ben used, but not abused, he placed the value at between $250.00 and $325.00. He indicated that since there were so many made - even though it is 106 years old - there were too many made to allow it to increase in value beyond the amounts noted above.
MY DILEMMA IS THIS: Even though he says the value is between $250.00 and $325.00, he said he would like to have it for, "his collection" and would pay me $400.00 in spite of the actual value being lower.
HONESTLY something about the way he explained the lack of value due to the total number produced seemed a bit strange. In addition, why would he pay more than his estimated value, if the gun is not worth that amount?
You see where I am headed -- simply because he seemed to willing to "do the deal" right there on the spot. He even went so far as to pull out the cash and place it on the counter! "Take it or leave it", he said.
As I mentioned, the gun has been used over the years, but it has not been abused. The wood certainly has "dings and scratches", but overall it is not THAT bad. The metal has areas where there is color change, kind of like a"plumb color", but not definite rust is visible. He rated the gun at 60%, but said some appraisers might rate it higher and some lower --- but he kept insisting that since there were so many made -- the value would not change that much.
I have taken pictures (to the best of my ability) but do not know how to or if it is even allowed to post them here on the forum. I can get them on PhotoShop OR PhotoBucket when time permits if it might help determine if the "facts" he kept giving me are actually true. My gut tells me he is trying to rip me off since he has called me every day for the last week to see if I made up my mind to sell himthe gun, "...against HIS better judgement:,
I live in the Albuquerque, New Mexico area, but have not had much luck in finding another place to have the gun re-appraised. When I mentioned to the "expert" who offered me the $400.00, he seemed shocked and asked if I did not trust him! He actually got mad and slammed down the phone.
SO? Does anyone know where I might go in my area to obtain another opinion? Any and all info will be appreciated.

IF I did this correctly, pictures are available at this URL. On the right hand side there is a SLIDESHOW that can be clicked on and it should run.

WINCHESTER 1903 pictures by SmokeJumperFirearms - Photobucket
Thanks,
John

Mooseman684 · 11-16-2009, 04:30 AM

I hope this helps you...
That gun is valued at 100%=1500.00 , 95%=1325.00, 90%=1,025.00, 80%=900.00, 70%=775.00 and 60%=650.00.
Now IF it is the deluxe checkered Model it is worth TWICE the above amounts, and it sounds like the gun is closer to 80% by your description. It is a .22 Win auto caliber... Obsolete , but can be found...
I would add a 200.00-500.00 Premium for an Early serial Number as well.

Rich

Mooseman684 · 11-16-2009, 04:33 AM

Oh , and Welcome to G&G...And FYI , I do appraisals all the time and I use the Blue Book of Gun values primarily and also other Market indicators and demands when i appraise...
I'm glad you didnt let the guy screw you out of that gun !!!

Rich

SmokeJumper · 11-16-2009, 04:59 AM

Thanks MOOSEMAN684. If I did it correctly, you should be able to click on this link and go to Photobucket and run a slideshow of some of the pictures I tool. I'm no pro, but I tried.

Towards the right hand side of the screen (when it loads) there is a word SLIDESHOW. Clicking that should start it running. I took most of them before I semi-cleaned the rifel inside, so some "dirt" still shows. They are not the best pics and some of them have lint and small pieces of debris that is not "attached" to the gun. It has never been "refinished" -- just left alone and cleaned after use then wiped down with a bit of oil. If you hav a moment to look I'd appreciate it a lot! thanks for the other info -- I guess I was about to be taken for a ride!

Cordially,
John

WINCHESTER 1903 pictures by SmokeJumperFirearms - Photobucket

Mooseman684 · 11-16-2009, 05:18 AM

John,
I am going to say after looking at those pictures It grades out about 65%- 70% and is the Deluxe Checkered model and value it at 1300 to 1500 Bucks.
That gun was made in 1903 by all estimates and No later than early 1904...
That is a a Nice Winchester! Keep it oiled lightly , and in a display case if possible....They are still going up in value.

Rich

Mooseman684 · 11-16-2009, 05:32 AM

here is some Ammo for sale...WTS Collectors .22 western .22 Win Auto ammo - AK47.NET

Rich

oldjarhead · 11-16-2009, 06:14 AM

Never trust a gun dealer to give you the true value of any gun.
Normally they will offer about 30% actual value but seldom more than 50%.

.22hustler · 11-16-2009, 06:11 PM

As usual, the great guys here on G&G have helped another soul...Thanks for being honest guys!!! That's why I stay.....

SmokeJumper · 11-16-2009, 10:45 PM

To Rich and the board in general. Than You for treating a new kid (don't I wish) on the board like I'd been here forever! Rich, your time and effort as well as cordial replies are greatly appreciated. Not only did you reaffirm my 'gut feeling' that my local dealer was a bit too anxious to buy the gun - your stats explained 'why'.

I'll stop short of saying he was deliberately trying to take advantage, however, as faithful as I have been in tryig to support the local gun shops, his in particular, it does anger me a bit. I'll not be so quick to toss my cash on the counter, knowing I may be paying a few bucks more than I could get a gun elsewhere, but feeling confident that my loyalty to him would be returned. Lost faith is hard to regain.

Fortunately I had the smarts to never consider "refinishing the wood or other parts". The good old Antique Roadshow which my wife loved to watch taught me that; it looks OLD because it IS OLD! Therein lies the value, interest, history and so on. Making it look pretty makes it look like every other pretty new gun in a shop.

Once again - THANKS! I seriously appreciate the assistance!

John

Sav22 · 12-16-2009, 07:01 PM

I think your local dealer is a crook! Your gun is a good example of an early version - no saftey, Looks to have a bronze firing pin (as very early guns should), and it's a deluxe version! That gun should get a premium over all the book prices. The side mount sight could be an issue on value, I could not see from you pictures if there were any manufactures marks on it. I was not aware this style sight was made for the 1903 but if this sight is correct for a 1903 it might not be an issue - it required adding exctra holes to the side of the receiver and this could drop the value some unless this is some scarce sight made specifically for that rifle - if its something custom made that would be another issue.

big boomer · 12-16-2009, 07:45 PM

Wow what a great old gun I would not sell that one ever. Welcome to the site we are always happy to get new folks here.