Why John McCain is wrong for the right...

LiveToShoot · 01-26-2008, 10:23 PM

Why John McCain is wrong for the right

Chuck Muth
For the Appeal
January 25, 2008, 4:01 AM

For conservatives with long memories, John McCain is about the worst possible Republican presidential nominee - unless, of course, anyone still thinks Mike Huckabee actually has a shot at the brass ring, or you like seeing the GOP split asunder. And the reason why can perhaps best be summed up in two words: McCain-Feingold.

Sen. McCain's campaign finance reform bill - which he pushed relentlessly, almost to the exclusion of everything else - was a frontal attack on the right of free speech. Not commercial or pornographic free speech, mind you. Political free speech. The kind of speech the Founders clearly had in mind when they emphatically declared that Congress shall make no law abridging.

An even bigger problem is that too many Republicans actually agree with John McCain on restricting political speech. Mike Huckabee, for instance.

McCain-Feingold is a constitutional abomination. If John McCain can chuck the First Amendment overboard, no other constitutional protections would be safe under his watch either. Indeed, Sen. McCain has also gone after the Second Amendment with efforts to close the so-called "gun show loophole." But for gun rights advocates, that was no "loophole." It was just another chapter in the gun-grabbers never-ending quest to disarm American citizens.

Recall, also, that it was Sen. McCain who led the "Gang of 14," which undercut the GOP attempt to break Harry Reid's filibusters of conservative judges. Many conservative judicial nominees have never received so much as the courtesy of an up-or-down vote, thanks to Sen. McCain and his band of moderate Republicans.

And then there's the glue that holds conservatives of all stripes together - taxes. John McCain was against tax cuts before he was for them. Recall that McCain voted against the Bush tax cuts while he was a senator, but now he's all for tax cuts as a presidential candidate. And McCain is the only remaining GOP presidential candidate to thus far refuse to sign the Taxpayer Protection Pledge promising not to raise taxes.

There's also the matter of illegal immigration. No matter how many times Sen. McCain says the bill he co-sponsored with Ted Kennedy wasn't amnesty - it was. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it ain't no chicken.

In an effort to re-invent this history and make John McCain palatable to conservatives today, supporters are now pointing to his 82 percent lifetime rating from the American Conservative Union (ACU). But this is extremely misleading. McCain only gets to 82 percent lifetime because he was far more conservative in his early years in Congress two decades ago than he is now. Indeed, his ACU score for 2006 was a paltry 65 percent.

True limited-government conservatives and principled Republicans will continue to oppose John McCain as the GOP's nominee, but the senator from Arizona might nevertheless prevail. If so, I suspect even the specter of a President Hillary won't be enough to get many conservative elephants to forget the John McCain they've known and vote for him in November. It could be 2006 all over again.

Republicans better be careful whom they vote for. They just might get him. And by extension ... HER.

Why John McCain is wrong for the right | Nevada Appeal | Serving Carson City, Nevada

'Straight Talk' Express Takes Scenic Route to Truth - HUMAN EVENTS

Is John McCain a Crook? - Chris Suellentrop - Slate Magazine

Cyrille · 01-27-2008, 04:59 AM

Looks to me like this country has a choice between Ahumado's pit or his "bird" cages.
neither of which holds much promise of coming out alive or sane!

Wingwiper · 01-27-2008, 06:39 AM

Livetoshoot

You are so very right....

He has no problem with Illegal Aliens.

Is Pro Gun Control

Wants a schedule pull out of Iraq

Is in Feinstein and Kenndy's pocket. He is more Democrat than Conservative Republican.

Why do you think he is leading in some states? Because the Democrats who hate Hillary and don't want Obama are voting for him.

Out of the Bunch Mit Romney will attack the illegal Alien Issue, he will keep Gun Rights and he will do what it takes to WIN in Iraq. I don't fully trust him and would have Fred, but I am voting for Romney to be certain McCain doesn't get it.

Windwalker · 01-27-2008, 07:32 AM

John Mc Cain says he is a Conservative.The Mc Cain-Feingold Campaign Finance Reform Bill doesn't reflect this. It has little to do with campaign finance and much to do with incumbent politicians remaining in office. Since most politicians want to keep the cushy high paying job they now have or use it as a springboard to get an even higher paying office, the bill passed and our First Amendment Right of Free Speech took a hard hit. When he co-sponsers bills with the like of Feingold and Ted Kennedy I fail to see anything conservative about him.

ArkansasHunter · 01-27-2008, 07:38 AM

Right on Windwalker !!!

LiveToShoot · 01-28-2008, 08:27 AM

Maybe I should have set up a separate thread for Ann Coulter's article on McCain's straight talk detour:

'Straight Talk' Express Takes Scenic Route to Truth - HUMAN EVENTS

When McCain received the New York Times' endorsement, conservatives should be even more alert to where McCain stands with liberals...

According to the New York Times, McCain is now the republican poster child for being an acceptable candidate for liberals.

Additional examples of non-straight talk from McCain:
Michelle Malkin
Michelle Malkin » Open borders + campaign finance hypocrisy + eco-radicalism = McCain’s billionaire national finance co-chair Jerry Perenchio

Windwalker · 01-28-2008, 11:28 AM

Elect Mc Cain and his buddy Jerry Perenchio can teach all of us to speak Spanish, for a price of course, as this will be necessary due to Mc Cain"s open boarder policy and amnesty for illegal aliens.

troy2000 · 01-28-2008, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiveToShoot

Maybe I should have set up a separate thread for Ann Coulter's article on McCain's straight talk detour:
'Straight Talk' Express Takes Scenic Route to Truth - HUMAN EVENTS
When McCain received the New York Times' endorsement, conservatives should be even more alert to where McCain stands with liberals...
According to the New York Times, McCain is now the republican poster child for being an acceptable candidate for liberals.
Additional examples of non-straight talk from McCain:
Michelle Malkin
Michelle Malkin » Open borders + campaign finance hypocrisy + eco-radicalism = McCain’s billionaire national finance co-chair Jerry Perenchio

I'm not a McCain supporter. But I guarantee you that if I were, quoting Michelle Malkin and Anne Coulter certainly wouldn't change my mind. Those are two of the most hateful women in the world.

LiveToShoot · 01-28-2008, 11:57 AM

My focus, in presenting the above two articles, is on the verifiable substance of the information brought forth concerning McCain's political maneuvering...to highlight the danger McCain presents to the "conservative base" of the republican party.

These two articles help Republican voters understand where McCain stands politically. This info can also be obtained from other writer's and speaker's comments on these facts about McCain.

Please, let's focus on the messages at hand, not the messengers, so Republican voters can become more focused on the issues and where the candidates stood and stand in relation to them.

Thanks...

ArkansasHunter · 01-28-2008, 12:59 PM

I got to hand it to you LTS you dig deep LOL I just hope you don't fall in. LOL

Now who in your oppinion should all of us vote for ??? To lead this country out of this Recession, Deport Illegals, Leave the Constitution alone, Balance the Budgect,
Bring our children home from Iraq and Afganastan, Give America back to it's citicens,
Lower Taxes, restore faith in our law makers, Fix Education, Work on our Energy needs, Change the bad Image we have to other countrys, Create jobs,
Put a Stop to Companys from pulling out to go to other countrys, Ban Abortions,
Marrage between man and woman only.
If I have left anything out members please add to it.

As I type this stuff Mike Huckabee keeps comeing to mind and I didn't type the above to promote him.
But he would do the above...A.H

P.S. Now LTS who do you think we should vote for, come on lets here it...
come on, come on, come oooon........come on.......who ?

LiveToShoot · 01-28-2008, 02:08 PM

AH, I prepared an answer to your question...and tried to get the answer into this thread, but it wouldn't upload...too long I guess. So, I sent you a PM containing my answer.

mkusanagi · 01-28-2008, 07:19 PM

I'm voting McCain - he can BEAT Hillary and Obama.

Romney still supports a so-called assault weapons ban, so if that dem congress passes one you can bet your backside he'd sign the thing.

And if all the Rush listeners want to sit out election 2008 because McCain wasn't anointed by the same party elders who anointed Bush, fine - just make sure you know where you're going to be stashing your guns in '09!

LiveToShoot · 01-28-2008, 07:22 PM

Romney, in last week's Florida debate, assured viewers that there was no need for additional laws to restrict gun ownership, and that he would not sign any legislation for such.

In that debate, Romney also explained the legislation that came about and he signed in MA...

Romney's Florida debate comments can be viewed at msnbc.com.

mkusanagi · 01-28-2008, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiveToShoot

Romney, in last week's Florida debate, assured viewers that there was no need for additional laws to restrict gun ownership, and that he would not sign any legislation for such.

In that debate, Romney also explained the legislation that came about and he signed in MA...

Romney's Florida debate comments can be viewed at msnbc.com.

Yep, and I heard him say much the same thing less than 30 days ago, albeit with the caveat to the effect of "..except if some weapon that is singularly deadly to police or the public comes along"

So if Handgun Control Inc's buddies in the International Chiefs of Police decide to designate some group of guns as "cop killers" Mitty-Boy will have the easy out to flip-flop again.

LiveToShoot · 01-28-2008, 07:44 PM

Mkusanagi, Your crystal ball must be working pretty well...to know in advance what Mitt will do before the situation is presented before him.

From what I've learned, in my research about Mitt's actions as governor of MA, acting as the senior executive officer in that state's government, he endeavored to bring together those from both sides of the gun rights/control camps to work out an acceptable and mutually agreed upon piece of legislation.

When they had the final legislation completed and presented before him, agreeable to both sides of the isle, he signed it.

That is the procedure outlined in our state and national constitutions, when critical issues are brought up and decided upon, which not only points out how important the executive branch is but also the importance of those who are selected to serve in the legislative branch.

It is important to note that Mitt didn't take it upon himself to decide and act upon the matter alone. As the senior executive officer in his sate, he ensured the issue was addressed and worked out by the legislature and representatives from both sides of the gun issue.

They worked together to represent and serve the desires of the people they represented.

You and I both know that MA is a very liberal state, and for Mitt to do what he did to try and ensure both sides were equally represented and served in the matter is quite a significant accomplishment, as has been noted by those who have reviewed and comment on such in the press.

While you and I feel very strongly about the individual right to keep and bear arms, there are those who feel and act completely opposite. From my research of Mitt's record, he has shown a pattern of trying to ensure our fundamental second amendment rights are upheld, while trying to use the best wisdom to sustain laws that limit and/or restrict ownership of those firearms/weapons that are already listed in current laws as illegal for private ownership.

As a gun owner, I find that Mitt's stand on our second amendment rights is sound and sure enough for me.

mkusanagi · 01-28-2008, 08:01 PM

Better read this - He's flip-flopped just since Dec 16th!

http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/you...ink-again.html (Think Mitt Romney is Pro-Gun NOW? Think Again!)

LiveToShoot · 01-29-2008, 11:27 AM

Thanks for the link, back to what you posted and I read earlier.

There's a difference between flip-flop, flip, and progressive adjustments and change.

I believe that Mitt is keenly aware of the US Constitution and Bill of Rights and the critical need to defend and protect our inalienable rights.

As you know... Our 2nd amendment rights are so important to anyone who firmly believes in and supports the constitution, and Mitt firmly believes in and supports the US Constitution, much deeper and broader than our dialog even begins to touch.

Look deeper, and learn about the foundation of what Mitt believes in and what he promotes and you'll find that he firmly supports everything good about our country, our Constitution, the Bill of Rights, our laws, etc...

mym1a · 01-29-2008, 11:33 AM

McCain,liberal! liberal hiding behind the conservative camp, priceless! for the left?2 issues tells me all I need to know, 1 against fire arm ownership, 2 wants the southern border to remain open with very liberal immigration laws.just look at these 2 issues and you know what he is!!!!

01-26-2008, 10:23 PM	#1
LiveToShoot Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Northwest USA Posts: 2,071	Why John McCain is wrong for the right... Why John McCain is wrong for the right Chuck Muth For the Appeal January 25, 2008, 4:01 AM For conservatives with long memories, John McCain is about the worst possible Republican presidential nominee - unless, of course, anyone still thinks Mike Huckabee actually has a shot at the brass ring, or you like seeing the GOP split asunder. And the reason why can perhaps best be summed up in two words: McCain-Feingold. Sen. McCain's campaign finance reform bill - which he pushed relentlessly, almost to the exclusion of everything else - was a frontal attack on the right of free speech. Not commercial or pornographic free speech, mind you. Political free speech. The kind of speech the Founders clearly had in mind when they emphatically declared that Congress shall make no law abridging. An even bigger problem is that too many Republicans actually agree with John McCain on restricting political speech. Mike Huckabee, for instance. McCain-Feingold is a constitutional abomination. If John McCain can chuck the First Amendment overboard, no other constitutional protections would be safe under his watch either. Indeed, Sen. McCain has also gone after the Second Amendment with efforts to close the so-called "gun show loophole." But for gun rights advocates, that was no "loophole." It was just another chapter in the gun-grabbers never-ending quest to disarm American citizens. Recall, also, that it was Sen. McCain who led the "Gang of 14," which undercut the GOP attempt to break Harry Reid's filibusters of conservative judges. Many conservative judicial nominees have never received so much as the courtesy of an up-or-down vote, thanks to Sen. McCain and his band of moderate Republicans. And then there's the glue that holds conservatives of all stripes together - taxes. John McCain was against tax cuts before he was for them. Recall that McCain voted against the Bush tax cuts while he was a senator, but now he's all for tax cuts as a presidential candidate. And McCain is the only remaining GOP presidential candidate to thus far refuse to sign the Taxpayer Protection Pledge promising not to raise taxes. There's also the matter of illegal immigration. No matter how many times Sen. McCain says the bill he co-sponsored with Ted Kennedy wasn't amnesty - it was. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it ain't no chicken. In an effort to re-invent this history and make John McCain palatable to conservatives today, supporters are now pointing to his 82 percent lifetime rating from the American Conservative Union (ACU). But this is extremely misleading. McCain only gets to 82 percent lifetime because he was far more conservative in his early years in Congress two decades ago than he is now. Indeed, his ACU score for 2006 was a paltry 65 percent. True limited-government conservatives and principled Republicans will continue to oppose John McCain as the GOP's nominee, but the senator from Arizona might nevertheless prevail. If so, I suspect even the specter of a President Hillary won't be enough to get many conservative elephants to forget the John McCain they've known and vote for him in November. It could be 2006 all over again. Republicans better be careful whom they vote for. They just might get him. And by extension ... HER. Why John McCain is wrong for the right \| Nevada Appeal \| Serving Carson City, Nevada 'Straight Talk' Express Takes Scenic Route to Truth - HUMAN EVENTS Is John McCain a Crook? - Chris Suellentrop - Slate Magazine __________________ "Happiness is not the absence of conflict, but the ability to cope with it." -Unknown Last edited by LiveToShoot; 01-26-2008 at 10:31 PM.

01-28-2008, 08:27 AM	#6
LiveToShoot Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Northwest USA Posts: 2,071	Maybe I should have set up a separate thread for Ann Coulter's article on McCain's straight talk detour: 'Straight Talk' Express Takes Scenic Route to Truth - HUMAN EVENTS When McCain received the New York Times' endorsement, conservatives should be even more alert to where McCain stands with liberals... According to the New York Times, McCain is now the republican poster child for being an acceptable candidate for liberals. Additional examples of non-straight talk from McCain: Michelle Malkin Michelle Malkin » Open borders + campaign finance hypocrisy + eco-radicalism = McCain’s billionaire national finance co-chair Jerry Perenchio __________________ "Happiness is not the absence of conflict, but the ability to cope with it." -Unknown Last edited by LiveToShoot; 01-28-2008 at 09:43 AM.

01-28-2008, 11:57 AM	#9
LiveToShoot Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Northwest USA Posts: 2,071	My focus, in presenting the above two articles, is on the verifiable substance of the information brought forth concerning McCain's political maneuvering...to highlight the danger McCain presents to the "conservative base" of the republican party. These two articles help Republican voters understand where McCain stands politically. This info can also be obtained from other writer's and speaker's comments on these facts about McCain. Please, let's focus on the messages at hand, not the messengers, so Republican voters can become more focused on the issues and where the candidates stood and stand in relation to them. Thanks... __________________ "Happiness is not the absence of conflict, but the ability to cope with it." -Unknown Last edited by LiveToShoot; 01-28-2008 at 12:24 PM.

01-28-2008, 02:08 PM	#11
LiveToShoot Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Northwest USA Posts: 2,071	AH, I prepared an answer to your question...and tried to get the answer into this thread, but it wouldn't upload...too long I guess. So, I sent you a PM containing my answer. __________________ "Happiness is not the absence of conflict, but the ability to cope with it." -Unknown

01-28-2008, 07:19 PM	#12
mkusanagi Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 10	I'm voting McCain - he can BEAT Hillary and Obama. Romney still supports a so-called assault weapons ban, so if that dem congress passes one you can bet your backside he'd sign the thing. And if all the Rush listeners want to sit out election 2008 because McCain wasn't anointed by the same party elders who anointed Bush, fine - just make sure you know where you're going to be stashing your guns in '09! Last edited by mkusanagi; 01-28-2008 at 07:24 PM.

01-27-2008, 04:59 AM	#2
Cyrille Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 1,853	Looks to me like this country has a choice between Ahumado's pit or his "bird" cages. neither of which holds much promise of coming out alive or sane!

01-27-2008, 06:39 AM	#3
Wingwiper Banned Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 789	Livetoshoot You are so very right.... He has no problem with Illegal Aliens. Is Pro Gun Control Wants a schedule pull out of Iraq Is in Feinstein and Kenndy's pocket. He is more Democrat than Conservative Republican. Why do you think he is leading in some states? Because the Democrats who hate Hillary and don't want Obama are voting for him. Out of the Bunch Mit Romney will attack the illegal Alien Issue, he will keep Gun Rights and he will do what it takes to WIN in Iraq. I don't fully trust him and would have Fred, but I am voting for Romney to be certain McCain doesn't get it.

01-27-2008, 07:32 AM	#4
Windwalker Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 3,604	John Mc Cain says he is a Conservative.The Mc Cain-Feingold Campaign Finance Reform Bill doesn't reflect this. It has little to do with campaign finance and much to do with incumbent politicians remaining in office. Since most politicians want to keep the cushy high paying job they now have or use it as a springboard to get an even higher paying office, the bill passed and our First Amendment Right of Free Speech took a hard hit. When he co-sponsers bills with the like of Feingold and Ted Kennedy I fail to see anything conservative about him.

01-27-2008, 07:38 AM	#5
ArkansasHunter Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: South Arkansas Posts: 10,722	Right on Windwalker !!!

01-28-2008, 11:28 AM	#7
Windwalker Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 3,604	Elect Mc Cain and his buddy Jerry Perenchio can teach all of us to speak Spanish, for a price of course, as this will be necessary due to Mc Cain"s open boarder policy and amnesty for illegal aliens.

01-28-2008, 12:59 PM	#10
ArkansasHunter Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: South Arkansas Posts: 10,722	I got to hand it to you LTS you dig deep LOL I just hope you don't fall in. LOL Now who in your oppinion should all of us vote for ??? To lead this country out of this Recession, Deport Illegals, Leave the Constitution alone, Balance the Budgect, Bring our children home from Iraq and Afganastan, Give America back to it's citicens, Lower Taxes, restore faith in our law makers, Fix Education, Work on our Energy needs, Change the bad Image we have to other countrys, Create jobs, Put a Stop to Companys from pulling out to go to other countrys, Ban Abortions, Marrage between man and woman only. If I have left anything out members please add to it. As I type this stuff Mike Huckabee keeps comeing to mind and I didn't type the above to promote him. But he would do the above...A.H P.S. Now LTS who do you think we should vote for, come on lets here it... come on, come on, come oooon........come on.......who ?

01-28-2008, 07:22 PM	#13
LiveToShoot Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Northwest USA Posts: 2,071	Romney, in last week's Florida debate, assured viewers that there was no need for additional laws to restrict gun ownership, and that he would not sign any legislation for such. In that debate, Romney also explained the legislation that came about and he signed in MA... Romney's Florida debate comments can be viewed at msnbc.com. __________________ "Happiness is not the absence of conflict, but the ability to cope with it." -Unknown Last edited by LiveToShoot; 01-28-2008 at 07:25 PM.

01-28-2008, 07:44 PM	#15
LiveToShoot Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Northwest USA Posts: 2,071	Mkusanagi, Your crystal ball must be working pretty well...to know in advance what Mitt will do before the situation is presented before him. From what I've learned, in my research about Mitt's actions as governor of MA, acting as the senior executive officer in that state's government, he endeavored to bring together those from both sides of the gun rights/control camps to work out an acceptable and mutually agreed upon piece of legislation. When they had the final legislation completed and presented before him, agreeable to both sides of the isle, he signed it. That is the procedure outlined in our state and national constitutions, when critical issues are brought up and decided upon, which not only points out how important the executive branch is but also the importance of those who are selected to serve in the legislative branch. It is important to note that Mitt didn't take it upon himself to decide and act upon the matter alone. As the senior executive officer in his sate, he ensured the issue was addressed and worked out by the legislature and representatives from both sides of the gun issue. They worked together to represent and serve the desires of the people they represented. You and I both know that MA is a very liberal state, and for Mitt to do what he did to try and ensure both sides were equally represented and served in the matter is quite a significant accomplishment, as has been noted by those who have reviewed and comment on such in the press. While you and I feel very strongly about the individual right to keep and bear arms, there are those who feel and act completely opposite. From my research of Mitt's record, he has shown a pattern of trying to ensure our fundamental second amendment rights are upheld, while trying to use the best wisdom to sustain laws that limit and/or restrict ownership of those firearms/weapons that are already listed in current laws as illegal for private ownership. As a gun owner, I find that Mitt's stand on our second amendment rights is sound and sure enough for me. __________________ "Happiness is not the absence of conflict, but the ability to cope with it." -Unknown Last edited by LiveToShoot; 01-28-2008 at 07:58 PM.

01-28-2008, 08:01 PM	#16
mkusanagi Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 10	Better read this - He's flip-flopped just since Dec 16th! http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/you...ink-again.html (Think Mitt Romney is Pro-Gun NOW? Think Again!)

01-29-2008, 11:27 AM	#17
LiveToShoot Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Northwest USA Posts: 2,071	Thanks for the link, back to what you posted and I read earlier. There's a difference between flip-flop, flip, and progressive adjustments and change. I believe that Mitt is keenly aware of the US Constitution and Bill of Rights and the critical need to defend and protect our inalienable rights. As you know... Our 2nd amendment rights are so important to anyone who firmly believes in and supports the constitution, and Mitt firmly believes in and supports the US Constitution, much deeper and broader than our dialog even begins to touch. Look deeper, and learn about the foundation of what Mitt believes in and what he promotes and you'll find that he firmly supports everything good about our country, our Constitution, the Bill of Rights, our laws, etc... __________________ "Happiness is not the absence of conflict, but the ability to cope with it." -Unknown

01-29-2008, 11:33 AM	#18
mym1a Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,313	McCain,liberal! liberal hiding behind the conservative camp, priceless! for the left?2 issues tells me all I need to know, 1 against fire arm ownership, 2 wants the southern border to remain open with very liberal immigration laws.just look at these 2 issues and you know what he is!!!!