Hillary wants to be dictator?

[mym1a]

who ya fighting with now troy2000?????????

[cowboyup1991]

My special applologies to ezearl

and troy2000

[A-10]

Originally Posted by mym1a

some times I can't help but think that this election cycle is going to be nothing but an illusion of choice!

I know what you mean. It seems that it's those shadow societies that really make the decisions.

[mym1a]

Originally Posted by A-10

I know what you mean. It seems that it's those shadow societies that really make the decisions.

they all appear to been very open about their agenda! they may have forgot about some of the things they have said/voted for in the past but many of us haven't!

I'm voting for my cat charlie I know he would steal only what he eats, has no affilation with either party and has never told a lie!!!!!!!!!!

[Wingwiper]

Originally Posted by TXplt

Wingwiper, sir, I don't know what you're smoking. I was in the Air Force at the time and flying. There was no love lost between any of us and the Clintons. The individuals accomplishing the investigation were persons of integrety, and certainly wouldn't have in any way covered up for anything Clinton did; quite the opposite. No one claimed at any time that the aircraft didn't hit the hill (unless it was some misguided initial reporter). We lost 3+ breathren in the crash as well. If you want conspiracies, I guess you could look at the re-route resulting in them getting rushed going into Dubrovnik, but the pilots were competent and professional.

The WX wasn't terrible, but it was IMC and did require an instrument approach. The aircraft that had previously landed had reported the weather as low but above minima. The approach itself required 2 NDB's be tuned, and the hilly area the T-43 hit did actually violate TERPS (Terminal Area Publications guidelines) criteria but due to an oversight was not discovered despite aircraft using the airport for quite some time. Had the aircraft been on course it wouldn't have hit the hill, but it had overflown the missed approach point on the plate by quite a bit. The approach procedure could actually have been successfully flown by using 1 NDB as a navaid, but you would have had to tune the second which defined the missed approach point rapidly after crossing the first which is not allowed according to our instrument approach procedures. Even though not legal and very difficult, had they done this they would have been tracking inbound to not outbound from an imprecise navaid and would have known when to miss the approach as well as be very much more on course. This could have been a simple oversight, but what actually happened was quite different. The approach was never stable, and the speed was never really under control for the configuration. The jet was extremely fast through the entire approach -- well outside of any stabilized criteria. The crew crossed the first NDB and attempted to track outbound. The second NDB which was further along and defined the missed approach point was never tuned, nor could the crew use timing because they never really had a stable groundspeed. NDBs are very primitive navaids, and tracking away from them requires alot of mental calculation to stay on course at all due to wind -- in practice it's very difficult and the instrumentation isn't that accurate -- it also gets worse with distance away from the station and that's why the TERPS criteria is pretty wide -- to allow for just such an event. NDBs are going away and for good reason--they have always been less safe than other approaches. I think at that point they were believing they could break out and proceed visually below the ceiling, but the vis wasn't stellar either. The jet wasn't equipped with a "video games" lateral navigation system (fed by GPS and IRS) like you'll see on commercial airliners you fly today. Basic HSI, ADI, and RMI. No EGWPS either, which would have saved them.

There have been a few good documentaries which tell the tale better than I. The crew was guilty of no more than trying to get the job done with the training they had. If anything, they had too much of a "can do" attitude rather than abandoning the approach and diverting. Although, basic airmanship should have dictated they break off the approach on the final approach segment due to their lack of a stabilized approach. They also weren't formally trained in the approach plates they were using. For the training issue, action was taken against the supervisors, but it was more of a witch hunt than anything. We had a flurry of new rules in the wake of this. But the bottom line is it was a simple CFIT accident. Here's a link to the report.


DefenseLink News Article: Air Force Releases Brown Crash Investigation Report

Read my links, they are OFFICIAL and not whacko links and they all mention a BULLET HOLE in his head...SO regardless of the plane crash,,, what was there a bullet hole in Ron Brown's head. Read the Arlington cementery link, or read them all. I do NOT smoke sorry. The 4 beers and whisky I had yesterday were the first in months...

Originally Posted by troy2000

Give it up, Wingwipe. The report also says he bled out right on the spot, leaving a pool of blood beneath his head.

Jeez, this reminds me of Dorothy Parker's response when she was asked to use the word "horticulture" in a sentence: "you can lead a horticulture, but you can't make her think."

Contrary to public opinion, there are not always two sides to every question. Sometimes there's just common sense and nonsense. Simple common sense should tell you that if you have to disbelieve the National Transportation Board, the FBI, various police forces, multiple coroners and crime scene investigators, Congressional investigators, independent counsels, etc., to label those 44 deaths "suspicious," the only thing suspicious is the mental stability and/or financial motives of the people feeding you that hooey.

I can't prove to you with "hard evidence" whether there's a tooth fairy or not either, but guess where I'm placing my money regardless of any suspicions you may have?

Troy

I will say it again, I DO NOT CARE ABOUT FOSTER, I CARE ONLY ABOUT Ron Brown and James McDougal..... go to my links they are Offical....
Bleeding out proves nothing... only that he bled in the car... Explain the dirt and grass on his pants and shirt from outside the car. Was a full grown man rolling around before he decided to shoot himself..

Please move on to Ron Brown... Thanks

[TXplt]

I have no clue if he had a bullet hole in his melon or not; it would have not mattered because the crash was non-survivable. The one potential survivor died of post crash injuries in hospital shortly after the crash (which I didn't know about as part of the initial investigation itself--later learned thru a documentary).

Next you'll be telling me that TWA 800 was caused by something other than a center fuel tank explosion (it wasn't). Maybe if you can find enough credible evidence of this we'll stop having to turn off the center tank pumps so carefully.

And don't get me wrong -- I very much believe the Clintons to be terrible people who do evil things.

or evil people who do terrible things -- your choice.

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by cowboyup1991

Allright maybe I was out of place on some of the things I said. I spoke before i thaught and It got me into trouble. The things I said (other than the insults) did have some truth, wouldn't you say. I sincerly apologise and would like to get more of your side of it. Maby it was the way I was raised or something like that but everyone has different opionions. I am embarrased that I put down fellow outdoorsman and again I apologise. I DO NOT THINK BADLY OF WOMEN, I DO NOT THINK THEY ARE WEEK OR INSIGNIFICANT OR NOT AS IMPORTANT AS MEN just that either sex has different parts or roles in our familly's and lifes. That is not to say a women could't be a good president i just think that a man would be a better one. Women have proved there abillties and I support that it, I just over reacted in my explanation of that. So again I am sorry and please take no offense.

Spoken like a man, cowboyup. That's as handsome an apology as I've seen in a while, and I'd be proud to accept it.

Originally Posted by mym1a

who ya fighting with now troy2000?????????

Everyone in sight as usual, mym1a.

Originally Posted by Wingwiper

Troy
I will say it again, I DO NOT CARE ABOUT FOSTER, I CARE ONLY ABOUT Ron Brown and James McDougal..... go to my links they are Offical....
Bleeding out proves nothing... only that he bled in the car... Explain the dirt and grass on his pants and shirt from outside the car. Was a full grown man rolling around before he decided to shoot himself..
Please move on to Ron Brown... Thanks

Read the damn report, Wingwiper, and you won't embarrass yourself like that. He shot himself standing in the park, not sitting in his car.

Funny you only care about McDougal and Brown now; when you started, you were carrying on about all 44. But I'll leave you to Txplt's tender mercies concerning Brown. He's a professional, and actually knows what he's talking about.

[billy]

THIS IS GREAT!
WOOHOO!!!!


a cage match!

[TXplt]

Please don't let this squabbling take away from the task at hand; we as a electorate must not allow the Clintons to be elected into office again. Their modus operandi is not new. If you've ever studied Huey Long or read the book All the King's Men you get some idea of how, I believe, they do business. Except Mr. Long (I believe) had his fellow citizen's interest in mind to some extent. And it's not their covert acts I'm particularly worried about. It's their overt acts. They believe we work as their minions, they can do anything, and they should be king and queen. The family has no problem doing its best to strip our basic constitutional rights (like freedom of religion, speech, and the press; the right to keep and bear arms; the right to due process; the right to equal protection under the law). They do this through feel good lawyerisms, by dividing us amongst ourselves, by making us feel "comfortable"; by blurring the edges of the constitution, and when all this doesn't work, through money, fear, ridicule, and intimidation. I believe she has no interest whatsoever in peoples' health care but does see this as a vehicle where government can come into citizen's lives. If the government is now “responsible” for your physical well being, it can dictate all kinds of restrictions in your life – what you eat, how much you exercise, who you have sex with, what kind of foods are “bad” for you, if you can or can’t smoke, etc. It can also tax things it thinks are “bad.” This isn’t a lot different from helmet or seat belt laws, and uses the collective willingness to pay principle. A better solution to the helmet/seat belt law is to require the person to pay their medical costs (not give them a ticket) if they’re injured as a result of their choice. This allows the choice factor and is a lot more effective – the medical bills can be staggering. But you won’t see stuff like this from elitists who want to decide what’s good for you. They really want to treat you as pets while you pay their salary. Worse yet, they will try to indoctrinate our children that this is “normal” and OK. That the collective raises the child; that the state is responsible for the child’s well being. They will attempt to diminish our roles as parents and citizens. This is why we must not elect them.

[mym1a]

vote for charlie! only steals what he eats, no affiliation with either party and has never told a lie! just a garfield wannbe

[tcwildcat7mm]

I could not get an answer on what her health plan actually is! I kep hearing how there are numerous ways to achieve everyone in America being covered. So it is a mandate by the Gov't that everyone is covered- so who pays for it? how will it make my hospital visits if needed? will it be like Canada? Will illegals be covered? Will this mean we can stop paying elected officials med. pensions? they all come up with "plans" but its all smoke and mirrors. They had a spokeswoman for Hillary on night b4 last and all she kept talking about were the plans and committees and..... all the money they would spend to do nothing but make my taxes higher and make it where all the slobs will not even go look for a job! free housing, free food, free healthcare.... and I gotta go to work to pay for it. if you want to see Liberal control in action look at new orleans, it has been run by libs for 50 years. that is what the final outcome looks like when you elect liberals to office. Giant ghettos, uneducated children, soup kitchens everywhere, streets so bad that 4x4's get torn up driving, super high crime, drug infestation, over populated jails, and everybodies pockets getting lined! NAACP everywhere, high unemployment because people with no job would be crazy to get a job if everything is free...... That is what scares me about Hillary and her husband with too much time on his hands scares me even more!
And losing gun rights to boot! All joking aside, I am very worried about our future.

[toolman]

I done got the urge to smack somebody, but now I can't remember who it is I was wantin' to smack!

[Wingwiper]

Originally Posted by TXplt

I have no clue if he had a bullet hole in his melon or not; it would have not mattered because the crash was non-survivable. The one potential survivor died of post crash injuries in hospital shortly after the crash (which I didn't know about as part of the initial investigation itself--later learned thru a documentary).

Next you'll be telling me that TWA 800 was caused by something other than a center fuel tank explosion (it wasn't). Maybe if you can find enough credible evidence of this we'll stop having to turn off the center tank pumps so carefully.

And don't get me wrong -- I very much believe the Clintons to be terrible people who do evil things.

or evil people who do terrible things -- your choice.

Txplt

You HAVE to be an army Officer, you are hard headed. I am NOT saying, it is the web sites I have posted, go to them and read. If you are going to dodge the support information I am posting, then please refrain from accusing me of saying anything.. I ONLY said the deaths are beyond coincendental.
Go back to the beginning of the posts and catch up, Please don't jump in somewhere in the middle and start thumping my posts when you are vaguely reading them. Thanks
IS TWA 800 the plane that went down over NYC in the BAY? The one where there was a wedding being filmed and they filmed an object shooting up from an off shore boat and striking the plane???? I saw the video and they played it on the news the first few days and then stopped. Kinda like a Hangar 18 thing. Never another mention of it.

TRoy

I merely referred to the 44 deaths as suspicious and I don't know half the people on the list. You made comments about Waco and I went to links and posted the fact that the 4 of the Agents killed had been Clinton's body guards. Then you cut down Linda with vague critisism and I referred you to other links and then you started carrying on about Vince Foster, so I added the info I knew of. In post 2 my reference to Vince Foster was his UNTIMELY DEATH and suspicious death at a critical time and not the method of death. (Now I know many of you don't believe it, but the 44 untimely murders of close associates, possible witnesses, etc while Bill was in office is just too far beyond coincendental. There is something very disturbing about the Clintons and it has NOTHING to do with Politcal Party. Ron Brown and Vince Foster are two, who come to mind and I note their involvement with the Clintons and their untimely and supsicious deaths. The Hope Arkansas bunch, included the Clintons, McDougals, Vince Foster and Gov Jim Guy Tucker (who later ended up in jail as well) and a Judge. Too strange, too many UNANSWERED questions. This isn't a Rant, these are concerns that never had answers.) You continued to bring up Vince and accuse me of accusing Clinton or personnally murdering 44 people,. You did it in post 8, post 22, 31 and 46 and a few after. Can you without a shadow of doubt, explain why Vince Foster supposedly committed suicide???

My mistake, I thought you had mentioned car. I read quite a bit of Starr's report, probably spent more time on the link that you posted than you did on all of my links put together. You had a mental block that they were b.S. so you never went to them and you carry on as if you are the final word in investigations, you know little about. I found the conclusion to Vince being killed in Marcy Park to be BRILLANT and doesn't say anything other than Vince was DEAD. (Dr. Blackbourne based this conclusion upon the fact that he would be immediately unconscious following the gunshot wound through the brain.) This to was a pretty silly reason for ruling out movement, dead people don't bleed and simple percautions could void this statement.(If he had been transported from another location, such movement would have resulted in much greater blood soilage of his clothing) I found that under OWNERSHIP of the GUN, Mrs Foster could NOT ID it and yet the above Paragragh states that was the evidence needed to prove it was a suicide. If you are NOT going to any of my links and you continue to slam me for not accepting your views, ten let's end this sherade. I have done a lot of reading over the years on the matter and on the Clintons, but you act like I have only read comic books and you are the master and yet offer no support evidence for your belief other than a Ken Starr report that I doubt you have read yourself.
NO ONE on these threads is an EXPERT by any level, on the matter. Your Opinion is as good as mine, no better and no worst. You believe what you want and I will believe what I want. I tried to post a reference to every single thing I said and in return you called me a Conspiracy Buff and a Cult member, then referred to anyone who believed as I (there are 10s of 1000s) lunatics and people with an ax to grind. You are the one who is sold on their own opinion and refuse to discuss anyone else's without retorting to name calling and belittling. You are indeed a true Liberal. Liberals spend their time insulting the opposition, attacking the views of the opposition and never ever offering anything credible to sustantiate their own positions. You have done it well for this whole thread. You talk to me as if you are on a stage and you are entertaining people other than yourself and you talk to me as if I am transparent. I see nothing that you have said that is anything less than uniformed and knee slapping. You have thrown insults at me, why? because I believe that the Clintons are evil and there were 44 untimely and suspicious deaths that go beyond coincendence, that Clinton SOLD us out to the Chinese (Was really my main point) and that he was IMPEACHED and will be BACK in the White House. The EXACT SAME FAMILY FOR POSSIBLY 4 TERMS OR 16 YEARS...scarey. DROP Vince and go to my Ron Brown links, they are Federal and military, look at the reports and the photos. Why was he shot???????

[billy]

:::nono :

[TXplt]

Wing,

I HAVE read the links. There was no radar conspiracy......The aircraft wasn't required to be equipped with CVR and FDR and wasn't. The aircraft was operating in a non-radar procedural IFR environment. AWACS radar data was actually used to reconstruct the accident. There wasn't some "superstorm" but there was convective activity around the area. This weather wasn't a factor in the crash--If you hadn't figured it out, the 400 foot broken discussed in the first link you posted had actually constitutes a fairly low ceiling for this approach (the reported WX by the tower was 492'); indeed a previous pilot had reported the ceiling at mins. It was also raining and vis OK at 5 NM but not great. If you're really interested in FACTS, here's a link which summarizes the accident report in some detail.

http://www.flightsafety.org/fsd/fsd_jul-aug96.pdf

And, yes, I know a great deal about this investigation. Not Army, but Air Force, I was active duty at the time and we did operate in that part of the world. As far as bullet holes and other stuff, how am I supposed to believe that when first website you have listed contains utter BS about the crash ? You can believe whatever you want........

But I'm waving a big red BS flag on this one.

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by Wingwiper

...Go play with your tooth fairy.

Been doing that until I'm tired of it, Wingwiper. And every time you get cornered you just wiggle your little wings and sidestep, instead of admitting you were wrong.

But claiming you never accused the Clintons of murder takes the cake for dishonesty. Why else would you spend days, and reams of posts, telling me about all the suspicious deaths of people around them, if you didn't think the Clintons were responsible for those deaths? Because you think it's an interesting statistical anomaly, a strange twist of fate, a macabre bit of trivia?

It's time to stop weaseling. Of course you're accusing them of murder. Whether you think they did it hands-on or ordered it done is irrelevant; you're clearly trying to convince me the Clintons are responsible for 44 deaths.

[Wingwiper]

Originally Posted by TXplt

Wing,

I HAVE read the links. There was no radar conspiracy......The aircraft wasn't required to be equipped with CVR and FDR and wasn't. The aircraft was operating in a non-radar procedural IFR environment. AWACS radar data was actually used to reconstruct the accident. There wasn't some "superstorm" but there was convective activity around the area. This weather wasn't a factor in the crash--If you hadn't figured it out, the 400 foot broken discussed in the first link you posted had actually constitutes a fairly low ceiling for this approach (the reported WX by the tower was 492'); indeed a previous pilot had reported the ceiling at mins. It was also raining and vis OK at 5 NM but not great. If you're really interested in FACTS, here's a link which summarizes the accident report in some detail.

http://www.flightsafety.org/fsd/fsd_jul-aug96.pdf

And, yes, I know a great deal about this investigation. Not Army, but Air Force, I was active duty at the time and we did operate in that part of the world. As far as bullet holes and other stuff, how am I supposed to believe that when first website you have listed contains utter BS about the crash ? You can believe whatever you want........

But I'm waving a big red BS flag on this one.

Did you go to the Arlington one??

[TXplt]

Yes

[Wingwiper]

Originally Posted by troy2000

Been doing that until I'm tired of it, Wingwiper. And every time you get cornered you just sidestep and wiggle, instead of admitting you were wrong.

But claiming you never accused the Clintons of murder takes the cake for dishonesty. Why else would you spend days, and reams of posts, telling me about all the suspicious deaths of people around them, if you didn't think the Clintons were responsible for those deaths? Because you think it's an interesting statistical anomaly, a strange twist of fate, a macabre bit of trivia?

It's time to stop weaseling. Of course you're accusing them of murder. Whether you think they did it hands-on or ordered it done is irrelevant; you're clearly trying to convince me the Clintons are responsible for 44 deaths.

Reread my post, I edited it.

I am not trying to convince you of anything, you attack my positions and I defend it and as I do I post links and references, fo ryou to easily follow.
I am NOT wrong, How can I be wrong in a belief or a opinion???? Listen troy, Kennedy has served for many decades since his affair and role in a death, he has even sat on the board to judge who would be a Supreme court justice. Do I believe the Clintons were involved? I guess in a way, I do. 44 is too far beyond acceptable. The pardons also showed me he had favors to pay.
You have NEVER cornered me, for there was NOTHING for you to corner me about. I offered my opinion, I posted references, you took off on tangents and claimed this and that, I tried to address each of your tangents and I also dissected your posts and replied to each section. Go back and start over, I also made several mentions about Clinton and the Chinese, which was really one of main points that got left behind.
I am not weaseling, if anyone is you are, you have offered ONE link in your whole attack of my views. You have called me a conspiracy buff, a lunatic, a person with an ax to grind and a cult member, all because I do NOT share your Liberal Views. I have not insulted you at all. You do not have me in a corner, never have if anything you just flat ass refuse to accept anything but your own opinion and that is fine.. No laws broken there. I have a major distrust with the Clintons and I do think that they are very corrupt and the HOPE ARK bunch have all died or were in jail, except for BILL. Webster Hubbell, Jim McDougal, Gov Jim Guy Tucker, Vince Foster, Susan McDougal, and a Judge whose name slips my memory, nope nothing strange about this group other than most served time or are dead and one was President.

Originally Posted by TXplt

Yes

You call the Military Pathologists Report B.S.? The photos fake? the idea that Ron Had a .45 cal hole in his head B.S.??? OK! you are entitled to your own opinion.....
Look, the Point of the bullet hole was my only point about Ron Brown's death being suspicious. Ron was in charge of the Commerce Dept and the 600 Super Computer deal and the W-88 Nuke War head and the tech for the delivery system was in Chinese hands, some of which was filtered thru on Ron Brown's watch.. That was the foundation of the suspicion., the bullet hole was the final straw. The Plane crash is really irrevelant to the matter. My Focus is the bullet hole which seems to be very real and not a theory and Rn Brown and then WHY? i don't care about the weather, nor do I care about the ceiling or the speed of the A/C or whatever. MY BELIEF is Ron Brown was dead before the plane hit the ground.
OK ! so the links you disagree with, I can not post what I have read over he years, so I have to post what is currently on the web for reference. I can not go back 16 years and dig up everything I have read on the matter to convince anyone why I feel the way I do, all I can do is post current references that are easily obtainable by everyone. Frontline (PBS) as well as NEWs reports, conversations with people including Linda Tripp (she is not what the media made her to be, she is really a great person and her ex was a General), OLDER websites, Specials, books, etc etc It would be IMPOSSIBLE for me to retrace every one of my past steps to bring you up to date for the premises of my conclusions. So sure maybe the websites are no the best now, but that doesn't prove that what I have learned is B.S. Anyone can Google on their own and not rely on my references and I would suggest that they do.

[TXplt]

I see.....the "what really happened" website is a much more credible source on potential crash impact dynamics than the investigators. And website quoting a photographer saying "looks like" a bullet hole after an average of 100-150g's of deceleration force in the accident aircraft causing the blunt force trauma deaths couldn't be attributable to the massive impacts within the aircraft and the ground itself.

For what it's worth, our issue pistol in the mid 90's was the M9. This is a 9mm. While most of us wished we had the .45, this wasn't what we were carrying at the time. Best of luck, champ.