‘Our Country Is in Trouble’

[Windwalker]

Mym1a, I agree with you that as a society I doubt that we have the stomach to do what would need to be done and that we would jeopardize millions of lives to remain politically correct.

[LarryO1970]

Originally Posted by Wingwiper

Look Lary, I am not trying to grandstand and by no means do I think I know more than anyone else.
I have lived in the U.S. for almost 60 years and been to alot of places etc and I am not an EXPERT in my own country. I do not know what makes a Jew tick nor a Mormon nor even a Amish, so how am I to know what makes Muslim tick? How can anyone after 20 years feel they know more than the people who lived there for centuries?

Do I agree they want to kill us, YES!

KNOWLEDGE REPLACES FEAR AS DOES EDUCATION WHICH IS KNOWLEDGE. We can educate these people as we are by building schools and offering them alternatives to Hate and Murder. We can solve alot of problems by allowing Human Rights to replace Hate. We can allow them to make decisions and choices for themselves, let them earn a paycheck and allow them to spend it as they chose.
people who have been offered Freedom and Liberty, usually choose not to surrender it. We can turn their hate around but we also must severe the head of the Snake that wants to destroy us.

... so.... why do they want to kill us?

When we build schools for them, they blow them up along with the students in them. Because of the American connection... tell me I am wrong?

Students teaching English or wearing Jeans made in America... killed because of the American connection.

I am sure that the Human Rights people were appalled when there were people (Americans) beheaded on national television by these people who want to kill us.

They are breeding hatred every day with the IED's and roadside bombs, the killing of fellow Iraqi's because they'd rather protect their own families rather than join "the cause" of Al Qaeda... because they are Shiite rather than Sunni, etc. ... We are continually finding mass "dumpings" of tortured bodies out of hate due to religion. What other possible reason can there be?

Send in a Human Rights delegation... they will be killed by these radicalized people at their earliest convenience... lest they be radicalized Muslims.

What really needs to happen here is the Iraqi Govt. needs to stop sitting on their hands and actually take ownership of their own country. But than again, why should they? Keeping Americans around gives them more desirable targets. Why... because they want to kill Americans.

Wingwiper, I have no personal issue with you... let's make certain that is known. I have no problem with peaceful Muslims.

I do have a problem with these radicalized idiots who are basically thugs who kill for the fun of it... for the money in it... all in the name of religion (as they say, not me).

You say, "People who have been offered Freedom and Liberty, usually choose not to surrender it. We can turn their hate around but we also must severe the head of the Snake that wants to destroy us."

... who actually is the snake?

[Wingwiper]

Larry,

The people you refer to, are the ENEMY and they are the Terrorists that we are at war with. There are may good people there, as well and as you said "When we build schools for them, they blow them up along with the students in them" those students you refer to, are the people who are thankful for what we have offered them.

What we need to do and we are doing it, is to increase the amount of the students and decrease the amount of terrorists. Absolutely! it is about the American connection, same as Iwo Jima was about the American connection or Pearl Harbor, Beirut, TET, Archilles, Beirut, Lebanon, Sudan, WTC 93, Lockerby, and on and on. Do you think that American Connection that you refer to is an EVIL connection? I sure do not. Do you think that American Connection is greed and self serving? I sure do not. That American Connection is not two or three people in Washington D.C. but is ALL of us, you and me and everyone else. We are the Americans they want to kill and they want to kill us because we are not CONTROLLED and we will teach their SUBJECTS that they too, do NOT have to be controlled. That Larry is the American COMPASSION. That compassion is the reason I enlisted and have been serving for over 30 years. I believe we are doing a good job and I believe that even if America has to do it alone it will sooner or later be "PEACE ON EARTH AND GOOD WILL TO MEN"
Go to this site and see what we have accomplished in Iraq, forget the media and their love for sensationalism. Walter Cronkite said it when he said that when the news went to 24/7 from 30 minutes, they need to make up shit and to sensationalize. He also said that he use to REPORT THE NEWS AFTER IT HAPPENED AND NOT BEFORE AS THEY SO HARD TRY TO DO NOW.

Rebuilding Iraq - DefendAmerica News

[LarryO1970]

As a 14 year VETERAN I know what we've accomplished. I've had many friends go to Iraq... some came back, some did not.

The Media is too self serving, Liberal and anti-war at all costs, even at the cost to the American service members.

You mention Pearl Harbor, Beirut, did not even mention Khobar Towers ... all three of those events impacted my family from my Grandfather (Pearl Harbor) to my cousin (Beirut Barracks) and to myself (Khobar Towers). I know what we're fighting for. It is too bad the media (Liberals) paints us as the bad guy here.

It still does not change the fact radicalized Islam is the enemy, period. Supportive information is that two of the events I spoke of above were carried out by Islamic agents.

Again, who is the snake?

[Wingwiper]

Originally Posted by mym1a

wingwiper In my opinion your statement about educating them is sincere how ever many of them are well educated especialy their leadership,I think one of their excuses is our presences in the middle east, some,more knowledgeble then me will suggest we should leave? maybe their right? my question is this, as long as they are not bothering us why should we change or influence any other country?the liberals in our own country are attempting to change our way of thinking, and when they do this it's usualy met with anger and resentment, If they want to live under religious law, so be it! as long as they aren't a threat to anyone but them selves? now we are there for better or worse, if we leave it will be preceived as a big win for the terrorist, I think many of the muslim world associate kindness as a form of weakness,hundreds of years ago the civilzed world fought this battle and from what I read it took a few ruthless leaders of that day to contain them, I doubt we as a society have the stomach to do what needs to be done,and will jeopardize the lives of millions to remain policialy correct.

You use THEY as if it means ALL of them, it doesn't. Who is dying more than anyone in Iraq? the Iraq people. Same as in Afghanistan.
The Fanatics rule and that does NOT mean ALL or THEY it means only the fanatics.
Iraq is fighting along side of us and not AGAINST us, same in Afghanistan. There is no question that the war that we are currently involved in, is a difficult war. The enemy serves no flag but a World Wide Religion,they wear no uniform but dress as women and even use women and children as their weapons. There are millions of people in both of those countries and millions more throughout the middle east that would love the opportunity to just come home and have a family meal and then watch some tv, or get an education and have a life. millions upon millions of these people did NOT choose their lives it is being spelled out for them. We need t allow the people who do NOT choose to be Muslims to be whatever they want to be. The problem is that the sicko leaders want CONTROL over the ENTIRE country and ALL the people. So yes the American Connection is the american Influence that is going to DEFEAT them.

God Bless America

Originally Posted by LarryO1970

As a 14 year VETERAN I know what we've accomplished. I've had many friends go to Iraq... some came back, some did not.

Lary no disrespect intended but you do not know everything we have accomplished, none of us do. You do not realize the amount of accomplishment from being in one Squadron or one Platoon or one area. Go to the website I posted and look at June 2006 and read about the marshlands. Unbelievable. We Americans have helped tens of thousands just in that case and also put balance back into nature.

The Media is too self serving, Liberal and anti-war at all costs, even at the cost to the American service members.

They only care about selling stories, true or not true doesn't matter as long as it sells. We all use to laugh at the National Enquire and now it seems all media reports in the same fashion.

You mention Pearl Harbor, Beirut, did not even mention Khobar Towers ... all three of those events impacted my family from my Grandfather (Pearl Harbor) to my cousin (Beirut Barracks) and to myself (Khobar Towers). I know what we're fighting for. It is too bad the media (Liberals) paints us as the bad guy here.

We all have known people or been involved ourselves, this isn't about that, it is about the people who have to live there when we are gone. The people who suffer day in and day out who have lost entire families to the violence of the regime or the terrorists. One of my uncles went down with the Arizona but I had to study like everyone else to learn about the Arizona if I only listened to family he would have won the war single handed.
You served and I served, so be it, but it isn't about us and our 18 month deployments it is about the reason why we enlisted, the reason why we salute the flag, the reason why it still puts chills up our backs when it passes, the reason why I remember my buddies and fellow Marines/Soldiers and how I remember them. It is about the cause and not about individual service but what we can contribute during that individual service that will help the cause. It is far bigger than just you and I larry.

It still does not change the fact radicalized Islam is the enemy, period. Supportive information is that two of the events I spoke of above were carried out by Islamic agents.

Again, who is the snake?

The snake is those who block Freedom and Liberty from reaching te people, the snake is the ones who spread fear, panic and terror in their path, the snake is those who lead by threat and death and by having others die for their unjust cause.
Cut off the HEAD and the SNAKE dies, Larry.
They want to KILLus because we will take their CONTROL away, we will end their GLORY and their wealth will go to the people where it belongs, EXACTLY as it did with HITLER.

Bullets are not the only means of defeating this vile beast we need to offer alternatives to the people who are being sold the idea of blowing themselves up or willing to blow others up. We are doing just that and we are succeeding too.
It has taken time because there were no records, no backgrounds, when we arrived we had no clue who the real friendly was or the enemy, it takes time to be able to trust enough to make one an officer or a Section leader. We needed to filter, train and start from NOTHING and we have accompished a lot.
Even God needed Six days to create the Heavens and Earth. God does the miracles, man has a longer and tougher road to accomplish his tasks.

[LarryO1970]

Who is doing all of the killing? It surely isn't us ... last I checked, it was the radicalized Islamic who kill in the name of Allah. Where or who are they learning this ideal from?

In Iraq... again, dead Shiites and dead Sunni's ... fellow Iraqi people killed by Iraqi's in the name of Allah. I just don't get it.

In Afghanistan, again, dead citizens killed by fellow citizens that call themselves "Taliban" and kill in the name of Allah. Again, I just don't get it.

We (NATO) have given the Iraqi people their freedom from tyranny... it is up to them to take the ball and run with it, yet they sit on their hands. Why?

Why is it that most all terrorist attacks worldwide are committed by radicalized Muslims killing in the name of Allah? Yes... before you argue this, there were a few Americans by the names of Timothy McVeigh and Ted Kaczynski (Unibomber). Then you have the WTC attack in 93, Riyadh in 95, Khobar Towers in 96, the USS Cole and the second attack on the WTC. All radicalized Islam killing in the name of Allah. Am I wrong?

I ask... Where or who are they learning this ideal from?

[Wingwiper]

Originally Posted by LarryO1970

Who is doing all of the killing? It surely isn't us ... last I checked, it was the radicalized Islamic who kill in the name of Allah. Where or who are they learning this ideal from?

In Iraq... again, dead Shiites and dead Sunni's ... fellow Iraqi people killed by Iraqi's in the name of Allah. I just don't get it.

In Afghanistan, again, dead citizens killed by fellow citizens that call themselves "Taliban" and kill in the name of Allah. Again, I just don't get it.

We (NATO) have given the Iraqi people their freedom from tyranny... it is up to them to take the ball and run with it, yet they sit on their hands. Why?

Why is it that most all terrorist attacks worldwide are committed by radicalized Muslims killing in the name of Allah? Yes... before you argue this, there were a few Americans by the names of Timothy McVeigh and Ted Kaczynski (Unibomber). Then you have the WTC attack in 93, Riyadh in 95, Khobar Towers in 96, the USS Cole and the second attack on the WTC. All radicalized Islam killing in the name of Allah. Am I wrong?

I ask... Where or who are they learning this ideal from?

Larry in the Marines we had a old saying

"IT IS NOT FOR YOU TO ASK THE REASON WHY, IT IS FOR YOU TO DO OR DIE"
I have no doubt that many will read that and think of Brainwashed people, that isn't what is meant by it. The soldier has no clue for the reasons he is taking that beach nor the reasons that hilltop is so important. the soldier is but only one person. only one pair of eyes, only one set of ears and only one brain. No way can one soldier hold the answers to the BIG PICTURE.

When you say "All radicalized Islam killing in the name of Allah." Germany conquered Europe, but did ALL Germans feel like Hitler? Mankind killed Jesus but does ALL of mankind hate Jesus?

Let see from an old Rheotric Logic Class

Premise: Hitler was a German

Premise: Germany conquered Europe and killed millions of Jews and Russians

Conclusion: ALL Germans need to go to jail and be punished.

TRUE Premises do NOT always produce a TRUE CONCLUSION.

When 1.6 billion out of 5 billion are Muslim then it would be very easy for there to be many bad Muslims but not ALL, same with Christans. Crusaders weren't exactly a bunch of nice people.

We need to stay focused on te REAL ENEMY and not the PRECIEVED ENEMY.

[tlarkin]

We don't rebuild infrastructure 100% and I know we don't build schools for them. In fact we denied funding to Afghanistan in the 80s to rebuild hospitals and schools, yet we funded them for RPGs, AK47s, and AA guns to fight the Russians.

We allow big business to do a lot of shady things outside our country. Child slave labor in asia, Oil from the middle east, slave labor in coffee in south america, so on and so forth. There is a reason why other countries despise us, let alone our way of life. We are wasteful, and built on a linear system that is our economy, and our energy consumption of a finite substance is asinine. We are close to hitting peak of oil consumption here in the next 10 years which means no matter how well the companies pump it out, they will not be able to ever pump it out at a rate they are now.

Don't get me wrong I LOVE this country but I think we lose sight of what it really is to live here and we definitely care more about turning a dollar rather than our own personal well being. I think we should be more worried about our current infrastructure and its flaws before we care about anything else outside our country. Our means of mass shipping in our Country is through a trucking system. What happens when our economy goes down and petroleum is harder to get and more expensive to produce? Prices go up on everything, and we can't afford to maintain our expensive highway system. Well, we can just rely on our train system right? Oh, wait, what train system? Things will have to grown, built, manufactured, developed, and delivered locally. Big business will have a fall, our stock market will crash, and we will decline back into a depression period.

We have enough to worry about on our own soil and we should fix it before we go off and waste time/money/resources/american lives on a war that is getting us no where, and most of the US doesn't agree with.

So, why do these people hate us? I don't know exactly why but I think I have a decent idea.

[GlockMeister]

My concern LarryO, is that our country will prohibit us from picking up our arms to fight along with the military simply out of, the no, no, you can't this is a military thing, but more importantly that by the time this may happen, they'll have made it hard for us to do so. By gun control, bans or some other way.

I'm not currently in the military, I'm not a veteran nor am I a police officer. But, I guarantee you and tell you now, I'll fight to the death right along side any and all, military, veteran and law enforcement and civilians alike.

I suppose another thing to look at or another way to look at all of it is; If you believe in the Bible, then this is all prophecy being fulfilled, coming to pass. The end of times. The war to end all wars. I suppose if one wanted to be honest with themselves, they could and would see a link in what was written and what has happened and what will happen. Don't get me wrong. I'm not a very religious person, but I will admit and I do believe in God.
I mean, if we evolved from apes, why are there still apes? If we came from the sea, then why do we no longer come from the sea? I could go on, but no need to. If aliens put us here, why do they not visit us? Why do they not bring more? lol

So I suppose, if this is all coming to a head, which I believe it is, it's only a matter of time and many things will become meaningless and what's most important will become clear.
But let it be known up and until that is clear and that it is that time, I will be right there with you and anyone else, standing shoulder to shoulder, ready willing and able!

[LarryO1970]

Yeah... I don't recall saying all Muslims were the enemy... that is why I differentiated between the two as Islamic and radicalized Islamic.

Per your logic ... the rest of the radicalized Islamic soldiers are blindly following their leader, even though they may not believe in him, them or whomever, whatever?

The real enemy... is the radicalized soldiers for Islam who kill indiscriminately and claim the act is for Allah.

The Perceived enemy is all of Islam. Frankly, I do not believe all of the Islamic countries want to invade and take over the USA. Perception is that the Koran states that is the intent. True or not?

I know the difference. It still does not change the fact of the religion and region that the terrorists are coming from, now does it?

[ArkansasHunter]

TIME OUT talarkin where in the New Testament did Jesus Christ say carry weapons and kill if you have too.

For the record Jesus never said anything like that and I would apprceiate it if you refrain quoting anything else from the Bible.

Your wrong and pertaining to Jerry Falwell he did not have "quote" followers that Bombed Aborsion clinics.

I'm doughting your Integrety now...A.H

[LarryO1970]

The way I see it ... we should be backing up what we are saying here (written proof from the Bible and Koran) so things do not spiral out of control. Fair enough everyone?

We are (for the most part) all Americans living on American soil. We are all here with the common right as Americans exercising our 2nd Amendment. Let's not forget that...

Personally, I see this country we love in peril from not only radicalized Islam, but also by our own politicians who are forgetting their jobs as representatives of the people to indulge in their own greed. In doing so, these politicians are willing to give away our freedoms to the idiots at the U.N. for (in my guess) compensation. How so, not sure... but why else would they?

As far as the threat from radicalized Islam... we WILL be hit again by them, not another Timothy McVeigh or Ted Kaczynski. I feel pretty confident in that prediction. I hope I am wrong by both accounts... but history will tell the tale.

[ArkansasHunter]

Larry wether our goverment knows it or not, we are in a Holy war !

[LarryO1970]

Originally Posted by ArkansasHunter

Larry wether our goverment knows it or not, we are in a Holy war !

I agree... and the Liberal Media is downplaying that fact saying we are "alarmists".

Fools.

[Wingwiper]

Mr Larkin, You seem to be well educated and a man of reason,

got to this link and see what we REALLY have accomplished in Iraq.

Rebuilding Iraq - DefendAmerica News

Larry

I know you did not mean ALL.

I think you may be looking for a fight and I am not trying to offer one. Please read what I wrote as I meant it.

The people are being LEAD, same with any people and HOW they are lead will speak how they will act. What I am trying to say is we can decrease the amount of followers that these fanatics will have by offering alternatives, education, choice, jobs, decent places to live. You build a house ONE brick at a time and you build a country one group of people at a time. Will we stop all of the killing of the tribes to each other? Who knows but do we not even try? If we don't try then how the HELL can any one call us civilized if our only concerns is how well we live? I would like to think that most people on these threads would help a girl who was being raped, not jump in an rape her too or even walk away. I don't give a damn about what other countries think about us, I care about how we think about ourselves and whether we keep a decent focus on our objectives.

[LarryO1970]

I'm not looking for a fight at all.

"Personally, I see this country we love in peril from not only radicalized Islam, but also by our own politicians who are forgetting their jobs as representatives of the people to indulge in their own greed. In doing so, these politicians are willing to give away our freedoms to the idiots at the U.N. for (in my guess) compensation. How so, not sure... but why else would they?

As far as the threat from radicalized Islam... we WILL be hit again by them, not another Timothy McVeigh or Ted Kaczynski. I feel pretty confident in that prediction. I hope I am wrong by both accounts... but history will tell the tale."

I see that as a point of view... not as looking for a fight.

The fact of the matter is that we are facing threats grave to our country... not only from inside by our politician but outside (and inside) from radicalized Islam.

Would you at least agree with that?

[tlarkin]

Originally Posted by ArkansasHunter

TIME OUT talarkin where in the New Testament did Jesus Christ say carry weapons and kill if you have too.

For the record Jesus never said anything like that and I would apprceiate it if you refrain quoting anything else from the Bible.

Your wrong and pertaining to Jerry Falwell he did not have "quote" followers that Bombed Aborsion clinics.

I'm doughting your Integrety now...A.H

Sure, you can doubt my integrity, and I am glad you did. I would never want anyone to blindly follow what I say or believe, but to fact check it them self. Here is a quick quote I pulled, because I can not remember exactly every part of the bible, but this quote clearly states how Jesus told his followers to arm them self.

Luke 22:35-38
[35] Then Jesus asked them, "When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?"
"Nothing," they answered.
[36] He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. [37] It is written: 'And he was numbered with the transgressors'; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment."
[38] The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords."
"That is enough," he replied.

Now, what Jesus meant was that they should carry swords, and by swords he most likely meant daggers which can be concealed. He was having them arm them selves for battle or anything else that would require them to kill to survive. This is also heavily debated because of translation from a romantic language to a germanic one like ours, and all of the languages in between.




Jerry Fallwell has been quoted about saying all the Asians that died in the giant tidal wave a few years back deserved it because of their lack of faith in God, his god. He was a fundamentalist and a wacko, and people who followed him were the same people that bombed abortion clinics. I am not saying he was directly behind it, but he definitely fueled those types of people.

Larry wether our goverment knows it or not, we are in a Holy war !

We are more in a financial war over resources. Certain right wingers like to call it a holy war, like Anne Coulter, but that chick is also a nut case.

These are just my opinions man, so don't take anything personally I am not attacking anyone.

[LarryO1970]

Radical Islam against the west ... how can that be attributed to anything other than a Holy War? They (Radical Islam) are killing in the name of Allah.

Tell me just exactly how that is attributed to a financial war over resources? Have you? I have never seen a radicalized Islamic soldier kill in the name of oil. Where in the Koran does it say to kill infidels over a war involving oil? I referenced it earlier...

Q3.119: Lo! you are they who will love them while they do not love you, and you believe in the Book (in) the whole of it; and when they meet you they say: We believe, and when they are alone, they bite the ends of their fingers in rage against you. Say: Die in your rage; surely Allah knows what is in the breasts.

Q9.14: Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace, and assist you against them and heal the hearts of a believing people.

Q2.190: And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you . . .

Q2.191: And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

Q2.193: And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors.

Clearly, this enmity with infidels, and the instructions to kill them, are boldly written in the Koran.

Historical Context of the Koran

Note: In the early stages of Islam, a sixth duty was required for all able bodied men: to fight in the Jihad (holy war). Each caliph ("successor" to Mohammed) felt obligated to reduce the infidel "territory of war" by armed conquest in the name of Allah.

Am I mis-quoting anything here?

This is one of the threats to our country... the politicians are the other.

[Wingwiper]

Tlarkin

Great post and let us not forget the Departing of the Red Sea or the Walls of Jericho. I do not see anything wrong with having a will and a means to survive when someone wants to take it from you.

Larry,

When I made my first post you were quick and then you made a few other comments seeking my approval, I couldn't help to think you thought I was looking for a fight.

YES! I do think it is a Holy War and I happen to really Like Ann Coulter, we need more like her to keep the lights on bright.

YES! we are also very much in a resource war and like it or not the Supply of OIL will drop below the World wide demand in about 10 years and then the SWHTF.

Hitler didn't like the Jews as so many other before him in history and butchered, and I mean BUTCHERED millions. What is the goal of the terrorists? World Domination is what I would think. These people have never had anything in the desert or in their CONTROLLED lives other than the Koran or Quaran, they know nothing else, they have had nothing else and they have had nothing o live for and only have Allah to die for....it is all they know and will ever know if we do not succeed in offer alternatives..
Can you imagine giving them a 250 channel TV where they can watch all the virgins they want.. just joking and a sick joke too.... sorry.

LEAD BY EXAMPLE and that example is offering CHOICES other than blowing themselves up or others.

[LarryO1970]

We have offered them the choices you speak of, yet they still blow themselves up to kill infidels following the religious ideals that are taught to them.

I just don't get that rationale... other than to be followers. They have their choices... they chose badly.

Am I quoting the Qur'an wrong or do those passages exist in the Qur'an ?