Obama's 'Elitism' Issue

[Windwalker]

I am so tired of having to vote for a candidate who seems to be the lesser of the evils. If these people are the very best the Parties have to offer maybe its time to abolish all the parties, have congress put a limit on what a candidate could collect and spend running for office, and do away with parties altogether.

[LEE3370]

Originally Posted by Rambo

The very sad reality of it, is, we all believe we are supporting the best candidate until he gets elected and then proves us wrong.

Too true.
But in this election there is no "best" one.
Just the least worst one.
No matter which one gets elected this time we are in for a VERY bad time in the future.
Sad reality is that if this one gets elected two terms, I won't last long enough to see what (who) comes next. That is what is bad about getting old.

[LarryO1970]

Originally Posted by troy2000

Larry, I'm defending the truth. I suppose that would be a strange concept to some people, who are more interested in just smearing the opposition by any means possible.

And don't misunderstand me: I'm voting a straight Democratic ticket for Congress. I just want McCain as a counterweight, to keep them at least a little more honest than the Republicans were under Bush.

Gee Troy2k, that makes a world of sense... vote in even more anti-gun politicians. Even you Troy2k ... cannot deny the fact that predominantly, Democrats are anti-gun.

A counterweight? When McCain tells them "NO" on gun legislation, they can simply override him? Great....

Typical... I might add. Thanks for your support.

[Cyrille]

Originally Posted by troy2000

Cyrille, about 43% of the voters in this country are registered as members of the Democratic Party, as opposed to about 33% who are registered as Republicans. Equating the Democratic Party and that 43% of American voters with either the Nazi Party or the Communist Party means you've been thoroughly and sadly brainwashed, by people demonizing the political opposition for their own purposes.

If you honestly believe damn near half the registered voters in the country are the equivalent of Nazis or Communists, or the dupes of leaders who are the equivalent of Nazis or Communists, I see very little chance of even having an intelligent conversation with you about politics. Or anything else, for that matter.

And for the umpteenth time: I'm probably voting for McCain, because I don't think having Democrats in charge of both Congress and the White House would work out any better than having Republicans in charge of both did. So kindly stop lecturing me about who I'm supporting, unless you want me to vote "none of the above..."

Ahhh Mr. Troy if only we could vote for "none of the above" That would be nice but unfortunetly that is not possible. we have to make the best of a bad situation. I cannot and will not vote for those whom I believe are the anthisis of American ideals to me socialist is as dirty a word as feces
and I toally agree with Mr. Thomas Jefferson's ideas of how gov't should be. Albeit he did feel a bit diffrently when he was in office.

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by LarryO1970

Gee Troy2k, that makes a world of sense... vote in even more anti-gun politicians. Even you Troy2k ... cannot deny the fact that predominantly, Democrats are anti-gun.

A counterweight? When McCain tells them "NO" on gun legislation, they can simply override him? Great....

Typical... I might add. Thanks for your support.

They can't override him without a 2/3 majority, Larry, which they'll never get on anti-gun legislation. And remember: the conservatives in this country twice elected Bush, who actually admitted he'd sign an 'assault weapons' ban if one crossed his desk. So how about we can the sarcasm, and hope McCain does have the cajones to use his veto?

And believe it or not, I have other concerns besides guns. I'm not going to whore myself for one issue, and roll over to let the government have its way with me on everything else.

[LarryO1970]

Spoken by a true Democrat... you can give away your freedoms if you wish, I will not.

He only recently admitted that... in his second term, nice try. Here we go again ... everything with you is a retort anti-Bush statement when I never even brought him up in the conversation. Get over yourself Troy... good GOD.

Can you get over your hate for the President to be able to work real issues we'll have a say in... kinda like upholding the Constitution and the Amendments?

You simply cannot admit your party is anti-gun, can you? Ever hear of a "Freudian Slip"? Obama and Hillary are completely anti-gun... as with 9/10ths of your party.

Hey Troy2k, read this: Obama gaffe undermines Dem outreach - David Paul Kuhn - Politico.com

... Obama's remarks emphasize danger that Democrats may be perceived as disingenuous.

[LEE3370]

I am a whore.
Wars will come and go and come back.
All the other concerns will go and come back.
Once the guns are gone, they will be gone forever.
We will be told how it is going to be and that is the way it will be.

[tlarkin]

Originally Posted by LEE3370

I am a whore.
Wars will come and go and come back.
All the other concerns will go and come back.
Once the guns are gone, they will be gone forever.
We will be told how it is going to be and that is the way it will be.

You are being fear mongered. There is no way that 2/3 of our government would ban guns out right. It is too heated of a subject, then imagine how they would have to collect all the guns from all the citizens that own. gun sales have risen and risen in the past years and Ammo sales have sky rocketed.

They would have to have the Military come door to door and collect them at this point to get it done, and our current military are pretty tied up at the moment.

[LarryO1970]

Our current military would not go door to door to take away guns either. Too many would buck the order, especially since it would be unlawful and against the Constitution.

... but I think we've already been down this road before on this forum.

[tlarkin]

Originally Posted by LarryO1970

Our current military would not go door to door to take away guns either. Too many would buck the order, especially since it would be unlawful and against the Constitution.

... but I think we've already been down this road before on this forum.

I agree some would not obey, but others would follow orders like good little soldiers. If you read into any country that has banned guns, it was the military that always went around and collected them.

The average gun owner can probably put up a fight with LEO, but not the military. We are just too out gunned.

[LarryO1970]

Originally Posted by tlarkin

I agree some would not obey, but others would follow orders like good little soldiers. If you read into any country that has banned guns, it was the military that always went around and collected them.

The average gun owner can probably put up a fight with LEO, but not the military. We are just too out gunned.

Are you or have you ever been in the military? Do you have a clue what a lawful order vs. an unlawful order is? tlarkin, you obviously have very little faith in the competence of our military...

Think about it ... there are more guns in private hands than that of the military.

You actually believe the military I personally serve would come to take away your guns? You... are greatly mistaken.

Again, we've been down this road before on this forum... whereas most of the Veteran on here have shelled this idea with faith in the military, not of the Govt.

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by LarryO1970

Spoken by a true Democrat... you can give away your freedoms if you wish, I will not.

He only recently admitted that... in his second term, nice try. Here we go again ... everything with you is a retort anti-Bush statement when I never even brought him up in the conversation. Get over yourself Troy... good GOD.

Can you get over your hate for the President to be able to work real issues we'll have a say in... kinda like upholding the Constitution and the Amendments?

You simply cannot admit your party is anti-gun, can you? Ever hear of a "Freudian Slip"? Obama and Hillary are completely anti-gun... as with 9/10ths of your party.

Hey Troy2k, read this: Obama gaffe undermines Dem outreach - David Paul Kuhn - Politico.com

... Obama's remarks emphasize danger that Democrats may be perceived as disingenuous.

???!??? Larry, you're making no sense whatsoever. The point is that while supposedly (but not really) protecting our right to keep and bear arms, our current president, aided and abetted by a Republican Congress for most of his two terms, has led a frontal assault on the Constitution and the other nine parts of the Bill of Rights. And I want it to stop. That's not 'wanting to give away my freedoms;' that's wanting to keep them. And it's hardly irrelevant to the subject.

Where do you get this nonsense that I 'simply cannot admit my party is anti-gun?' If they weren't idiots on that particular subject I wouldn't need to vote for McCain, would I? Let me ask you: are you so blindly singleminded you don't give a damn what else someone does to ruin the country, as long as they let you keep your guns?

And I'm sorry, but I have a new rule in my life: never, ever waste my time again going to anything at all that Larry links to, because it'll most likely turn out to be pure, unadulterated, partisan claptrap.

[LarryO1970]

Troy... so Politico is crap? It is partisan against you? How about this... it doesn't fit your mold, this it HAS to be wrong? Politico is non-partisan... nice try genius...

IF you actually read carefully... this time, you will see that I said "real issues we'll have a say in... kinda like upholding the Constitution and the Amendments?" Now... Troy... that is speaking to the future not the past... do you understand? The conjunction "we'll" means we will ... now... for you Troy... that means future tense, not past tense. Understand?

So, you are willing to give up your guns Troy2k?

[LEE3370]

Originally Posted by tlarkin

You are being fear mongered. There is no way that 2/3 of our government would ban guns out right. It is too heated of a subject, then imagine how they would have to collect all the guns from all the citizens that own. gun sales have risen and risen in the past years and Ammo sales have sky rocketed.

They would have to have the Military come door to door and collect them at this point to get it done, and our current military are pretty tied up at the moment.

I agree 100%, the guns will not go away all at one time. Just one or two types at a time. One or two laws at a time. Gun owners will say this is bad but not too bad.
I am talking about two, three, or four generations from now after all those "not too bad" laws are put in to effect. Guns will be gone from our grandchildren or great grandchildren. We will be to blame for letting this bite be taken.
Guns could be taken away by the local law officers. Kill one family and burn down the house and 75% of the rest of the people in that town would come to city hall with all their arms.

[tlarkin]

Larry,

I have faith that most of the military would not agree with it, however, every person is different and there would be those that may in fact want a gun ban. Plus there are those that would follow orders. I have no doubt in my mind that if it came down to a bad SHTF situation with martial law, and where our rights would be currently stripped in a martial law situation I have doubt in my mind that every soldier would not follow orders.

To answer your question, no I have never served personally, but I have friends and family in the service. Army and Marines to be specific. I hear directly from their experiences. I know that if the government were to promise them more money, and the safety of their families over everyone else's they would be put in a situation where they would have to make a choice.

The only effective way for them to ban guns in this country is to get the Military involved. I agree with you for the most part that would NEVER happen, but do have my doubts that some may in fact still follow orders.

[LarryO1970]

... and as I've stated before, those who would follow the order blindly would be taken care of by the NCO's and officers who know the order to be illegal.

Personally, I've been given an unlawful order. I did not follow through on the order and instructed the men I lead not to follow that order. Had I followed the order, I would have killed a cop.

That officer was relieved of duty by our CO ... and was demanded his resignation when he stepped off the airplane when he got back stateside.

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by LarryO1970

Troy... so Politico is crap? It is partisan against you? How about this... it doesn't fit your mold, this it HAS to be wrong? Politico is non-partisan... nice try genius...

IF you actually read carefully... this time, you will see that I said "real issues we'll have a say in... kinda like upholding the Constitution and the Amendments?" Now... Troy... that is speaking to the future not the past... do you understand? The conjunction "we'll" means we will ... now... for you Troy... that means future tense, not past tense. Understand?

So, you are willing to give up your guns Troy2k?

I'm certainly willing to stop talking to you for a while, Larry. And I will. I'm tired of running in circles trying to straighten you out as you repeatedly put your own little twist on everything I say.

I'm not putting you on 'ignore,' but I'm not responding to you any more. Knock yourself out, deciding how you're going to best use that to take another cheap shot at me...

[mitch_mckee]

Originally Posted by tlarkin

You are being fear mongered. There is no way that 2/3 of our government would ban guns out right. It is too heated of a subject, then imagine how they would have to collect all the guns from all the citizens that own. gun sales have risen and risen in the past years and Ammo sales have sky rocketed.

They would have to have the Military come door to door and collect them at this point to get it done, and our current military are pretty tied up at the moment.

So, are you saying that voting for Democrats who are openly anti-gun is a good thing?

If you keep electing them, they will get to the 2/3 mark at some point.

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by mitch_mckee

So, are you saying that voting for Democrats who are openly anti-gun is a good thing?

If you keep electing them, they will get to the 2/3 mark at some point.

I'm done with you too, Mitch. And Wingwiper, and a couple of other people. As a matter of fact, I don't think I'm even going to click on anything remotely political on these forums again from today until after the elections; I'm going back to talking about guns and cooking and Jeeping.

[LarryO1970]

Originally Posted by troy2000

I'm certainly willing to stop talking to you for a while, Larry. And I will. I'm tired of running in circles trying to straighten you out as you repeatedly put your own little twist on everything I say.

I'm not putting you on 'ignore,' but I'm not responding to you any more. Knock yourself out, deciding how you're going to best use that to take another cheap shot at me...

Respond if you will... or not. I stand by what I said. Politico is non partisan.
Because it is contrary to your belief, you fire shots at me challenging my personal desire to uphold the Constitution of the United States as well as the Amendments. I will accept that blame any day. We can only change the future, not the past.

I took a cheap shot at you? Please, do tell... ?

In summation, I will not give up my guns... period. If you feel it will help, give up your own.