Obama's 'Elitism' Issue

[Cyrille]

I believe both Obama & Hillery should consider these words by two of our founding fathers---- 1st: Patrick Henry "Caesar had his Brutus, Charles the First, his Cromwell, and George the Third---- may well profit by their example!"
2d: Thomas Jefferson---"Resistance to Tyrants is obedience to God"(on a Jefferson family seal.)

[LEE3370]

Originally Posted by tlarkin

Oh please don't reference Cain and Able, or how perhaps Abraham sacrificed his son and his covenant with god? Or how about any other dogmatic hypocrasies all major religions have to offer?


The problems are all intertwined. Impoverished neighborhoods have far worse education which means it is a lot harder for them to get a higher education, which means it is harder for them to get a good paying job, and why should they get a job when selling drugs makes you more money in one year than working for $14.00 at H&R Block or whatever. They go to crime for the easy way out because it is the most viable and available method of making money.

With a debt based society and economy you can not get out a poor neighborhood with out any credit. You move on up and get out of the neighborhood well you will need a job, and established credit to own a home. Cost of living goes up in better neighborhoods and therefore you will have to earn above the minimums to scrape by. While, yes a lot of these impoverished neighborhoods fall under the ridiculous gangsta life style fueled by MTV, hollywood and the record labels, they are also products of their own environment. So, how is a poor minority going to rise above? It is so much harder for them. I was born into the middle class so it was easy for me to stay and I got a decent education, and I still to this day educate myself. Just wait till I get done reading this book on the history of firearms in the USA, haha, you all will hate me then. The book is very very interesting though, and has a non political bias, anyway off topic...

I want to say like 90 to 95% of violent crimes and murders happen to minorities in a small section of my city, while the rest of us don't have to deal with it every day. Sure you get the occasional shooting here or there, but it is every day in our evening news that someone got shot in the ghetto, and everyone knows where it is and no one ever goes into it, except the people who are forced to live there because they can't get out.

If you took away guns, they would still have them no doubt, and it would just create more crime. Prohibition and the war on drugs should at least shed enough light on the subject that it is completely useless to ban things with a nation our size physically and population wise. Too much ground to cover on all ends.

So in the end we have poor, uneducated minorities that are killing each other and making the nightly news every night, which brings up the bad stigma for guns. While I won't argue that a gun is not made for killing, I will argue that people kill people not guns.

Obviously, Obama wants guns out of the inner cities that is clear, but that doesn't mean he wants them out of the middle class, and I have to agree with him. However, I am not sure how effective it will be no matter what angle you take because we unfortunately have fallen so far behind already. If you were to eliminate guns from the crime areas, and I mean illegal guns and from people who break the law with them, then perhaps you would see an actual decrease in gun related violence. I mean guns are just a means to let these people kill each other, that doesn't take them away from their social status as being untouchable. I mean even i get ticked off at the bums asking me for money when I am busting my butt with over time to get some extra money so I can fix my car or what not.

Tell me a better way to stop violence, because there really is no way other than to offer them better education and better chances and allow them to get out of those areas and get jobs with the real work force.

You not only were born with a silver spoon in your mouth, but it had food on it.

We weren't middle class, more like lower class. By your standards, I should have been a thief or something, but I didn't. I am a son of a very poor sharecropper. One of four children who didn't turn to crime. We were taught to work for what we have.
The years of 51&52, we lived in 15"X30" a chicken coop on a farm where dad started working. We took out the nests and roosts and made it fit to live in. I started supporting myself when I was 12, graduated from high school, then went into the Navy to learn a skill because all I knew was sharecropping. I used that skill (electrician) for all my working career. Now I am retired and proud of the life I lived.

Don't tell me being poor is an excuse for not having any sense of right or wrong. I think it is a bunch of LIBERAL CRAP. They choose to do what they do.

[LarryO1970]

"The choices we make in life make us" ... that was on the kitchen wall while I was growing up ... and I've lived by that principle.

I've seen the "silver spoon" kids turned into drug-runners ... and I've also seen the kids from the poor side of town become collegiate athletes...

... just because someone starts out in life poor, does not mean that they cannot escape it.

I agree with you LEE3370, from one former sparky to another.

[LEE3370]

Thanks Larry,
That started me remembering-an old man thinking about his childhood.
I did steal one time, I was seven years old. A boy my age lived about a mile and a half from me that had money. In my mind at that time they were RICH. He had a "playhouse" over the hill from their house. (a old pig shed that he had cleaned up and painted) On one of the 2X4's he had stacks of coins. Looking back now, it probably was $15 or $20. I took 90 cents from his stack, 3 quarters, one nickle and one dime. That evening Dad heard it jingle in my pocket and asked what I had in there. I showed him. He asked were it came from and I knew not to lie to Dad and told him where I got it. He grabbed me and shook me real good and said "Son, you don't steal". He took me outside, cut a switch and we started walking up the road toward the boy's house. As we went he whipped me, all the time saying "you don't steal. If you want something, you work for it". When the switch would break, he would cut another and we would continue walking. When we got to the boy's house, he stopped at the yard gate and made me go up to the door and knock, tell them that I had stolen the money, return it and tell them I was sorry. We went back to the road and he whipped me all the way back home. When we got there he said "I hope this teaches you not to steal".
Mom washed my legs and back and put iodine in the cuts. I slept on my belly for about a week after that but I learned to work for what I wanted.

Just an old man remembering.
Right is right and wrong is wrong.
So I think the liberal crap is just that CRAP.

[LarryO1970]

Hm ... a tough lesson, but a good one. I recall never wanting to hear my dad was coming home from work early because I did a bad thing ... and also recall, never attempting to run away from him.

Kids have patterns of escape... as I did.

Dad was a cop and realized this.

There is nothing more frightening than turning a corner to escape and seeing your dad's hand in front of your face... knowing "yep, this is gonna hurt" and your escape path was no longer valid.

We took a few beatings as kids (never laugh when being spanked) and learned from them. Part of the reason kids get away with what they do today... is the lack of any painful, if not serious consequence.

We're on the same page LEE...

[LEE3370]

We're on the same page LEE...

And proud of it.

[tlarkin]

Originally Posted by LEE3370

You not only were born with a silver spoon in your mouth, but it had food on it.

Don't assume you know my life or my up bringing. I was hardly born with a silver spoon in my mouth, and I have worked for everything I own, and paid for it myself. I was lucky enough and privileged enough to live in the lower end of the middle class growing up. My parents were divorced and my mother was a single mom, and she went back to school and got her masters while I was growing up. So, we literally had little income. However, it was enough to keep us in the middle class part of town, which is very broad in the city.

We weren't middle class, more like lower class. By your standards, I should have been a thief or something, but I didn't. I am a son of a very poor sharecropper. One of four children who didn't turn to crime. We were taught to work for what we have.
The years of 51&52, we lived in 15"X30" a chicken coop on a farm where dad started working. We took out the nests and roosts and made it fit to live in. I started supporting myself when I was 12, graduated from high school, then went into the Navy to learn a skill because all I knew was sharecropping. I used that skill (electrician) for all my working career. Now I am retired and proud of the life I lived.

Oh, so you agree with me, you got an education and got out. Education can be learning a trade, like being an electrician. Also, please don't generalize my standards from the 5 posts you've read of mine over the internet. There are many outlets to better yourself, and you were lucky enough to have that chance.

Don't tell me being poor is an excuse for not having any sense of right or wrong. I think it is a bunch of LIBERAL CRAP. They choose to do what they do.

I never did. Man this forum is ridiculous. I said they don't have the opportunities the middle and upper class do, which you agree with me, which turns impoverished people to crime. Just look at any crime statistic out there. Most of the crime happens in poor neighborhoods, almost all of it. Especially the violent crime. That is not liberal or conservative, it is just a fact. You are confusing what I said with perhaps what someone else said. They turn to crime because you honestly can not live off of flipping burgers or minimum wage in this country.

Now I am officially done with this thread.

[LarryO1970]

Good tlarkin ... because simply, you want people to conform to your values and principles by abandoning their own values and principles.

Sorry pal, I'm not giving away my rights to make you happy.

[LEE3370]

Well then, good bye,
They have all the opportunities that I had, they just don't want to work and sweat for a small wage.
You can live "flipping burgers", if you want to. You just might not have the high priced things the others have but you can live. That job won't support 6 or 7 children so don't have them. Don't keep pumping out kids then expect me to support them.
There is NO excuse for crime. Don't blame me if some "intercity" person kills another.

[TexasT]

Yup. You guys still suck.

[TXplt]

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

This thing was so over 'till you brought it back up, Texas.....

[LarryO1970]

No kidding, let it go ...

[TexasT]

Over as of 8:50am this morning? Puhlease!

Anyone who posts below this line is a fag

__________________________________

[mitch_mckee]

Originally Posted by TexasT

Over as of 8:50am this morning? Puhlease!

Anyone who posts below this line is a fag

__________________________________

I'm not gay, though I have no problem with those that are.

What I want to know, how did you get to be a monitor?

[Cyrille]

Yeah Texas T what has angered you?

[TXplt]

You guys are gay too ?

[mitch_mckee]

Originally Posted by TXplt

You guys are gay too ?

No, but you certainly seem obsessed with homosexuality.

[TXplt]

That's me.......

Sorry, you'll have to excuse me--putting the rainbow plates on my car.

[mitch_mckee]

Originally Posted by TXplt

That's me.......

Sorry, you'll have to excuse me--putting the rainbow plates on my car.

Well, have fun.