Hilary vs. Obama

[MrsS]

Originally Posted by TexasT

Your best bet is to go to CNN.com and go to the election center. You will find more information there. Most people here associate with the republican party and threads like this will incite them to tell you how bad both candidates are. In truth, they're all bad.

And voting for someone with out doing your research is BAD.

Was just reading everyone's posts.
This "independent" is now going to tippy-toe on outta here, lol.

Originally Posted by mitch_mckee

Good. If you are going to vote for Osama Obama or Billary then do America a favor and stay home election day.

With all due respect Mitch....to vote, no matter who one votes for, is the right of every American and should be encouraged at almost any cost.

Okay, I'm leaving now.....

[LarryO1970]

Hillary wants to bring back the AWB (Assault Weapons Ban) from her husband's Presidency. This was shown to not work... as most gun crimes are not committed with "assault rifles"... but with cheap handguns or shotguns.

Barack Obama made his feelings clear with his Freudian Slip earlier this month. His feeling is that nobody should have guns.

John McCain is a mixed bag… but the best supporter of 2nd Amendment Rights of either candidate.

To challenge what I've said... look up their Senate voting records.

Senator Clinton:

Click here for 15 full quotes on Gun Control OR background on Gun Control.

• Get assault weapons & guns off the street. (Jul 2007)
• Background check system could prevent Virginia Tech massacre. (Apr 2007)
• FactCheck: VA Tech shooter not declared a danger to others. (Apr 2007)
• Congress' failure at Littleton response inspired Senate run. (Nov 2003)
• Keep guns away from people who shouldn’t have them. (Sep 2000)
• Limit access to weapons; look for early warning signs. (Sep 2000)
• License and register all handgun sales. (Jun 2000)
• Tough gun control keeps guns out of wrong hands. (Jul 1999)
• Gun control protects our children. (Jul 1999)
• Don’t water down sensible gun control legislation. (Jul 1999)
• Lock up guns; store ammo separately. (Jun 1999)
• Ban kids’ unsupervised access to guns. (Jun 1999)
• Get weapons off the streets; zero tolerance for weapons. (Sep 1996)
• Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005)
• Voted NO on banning lawsuits against gun manufacturers for gun violence. (Mar 2004)

Barack Obama:
Click here for 4 full quotes on Gun Control OR background on Gun Control.

• Stop unscrupulous gun dealers dumping guns in cities. (Jul 2007)
• Keep guns out of inner cities--but also problem of morality. (Oct 2006)
• Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions. (Jul 1998)
• Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005)

John McCain:
Click here for 18 full quotes on Gun Control OR background on Gun Control.

• I know how to use guns; but I don't own one. (Nov 2007)
• Prosecute criminals, not citizens for gun ownership. (Sep 2007)
• Don't hold gun manufacturers liable for crimes. (Sep 2007)
• Opposes restrictions on assault weapons and ammunition types. (Sep 2007)
• Ban cheap guns; require safety locks; for gun show checks. (Aug 1999)
• Supports ban on certain assault weapons. (Aug 1999)
• Voted against Brady Bill & assault weapon ban. (Aug 1999)
• Guns are a problem, but so are violent web sites & videos. (Aug 1999)
• Punish criminals who abuse 2nd Amendment rights. (May 1999)
• Youth Violence Prevention Act restricts guns for kids. (May 1999)
• Repeal existing gun restrictions; penalize criminal use. (Jul 1998)
• Voted YES on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005)
• Voted YES on banning lawsuits against gun manufacturers for gun violence. (Mar 2004)
• Voted NO on background checks at gun shows. (May 1999)
• Voted YES on more penalties for gun & drug violations. (May 1999)
• Voted YES on loosening license & background checks at gun shows. (May 1999)
• Voted YES on maintaining current law: guns sold without trigger locks. (Jul 1998)

[mitch_mckee]

Originally Posted by MrsS

Was just reading everyone's posts.
This "independent" is now going to tippy-toe on outta here, lol.





With all due respect Mitch....to vote, no matter who one votes for, is the right of every American and should be encouraged at almost any cost.

Okay, I'm leaving now.....

I agree, I am just urging him to excercise his right to stay home.

[tlarkin]

Originally Posted by msmforever69

Yea, I'm new to this forum. I'm just a 21 year old med student, and I recently got interested in purchasing a rifle or target shooting. I really don't have much time to keep up to date with politics, so I was just looking for a quick opinion between the two democrats. I can't vote for McCain, Bush supports him. The only conclusion I can draw from this thread, get the firearms before they get elected and just not vote because it won't matter.

Thanks for your comments and opinions.

Hey it is your choice and no one can hold it against you. I won't be voting for McCain at all if he doesn't change his policy on the middle east, which is the most important thing to me personally this next election. McCain wants to stay and he will go after Iran. I want this crap to stop and our troops home, and stop this over spending on the military budget and not getting anywhere with it.

A gun ban won't happen either, at the absolute very worst some more restrictions will happen. Plus we have to see how the supreme court rules the DC gun ban and how they view the 2nd. That will shed more light than anything that anyone posts on this forum regardless of bias or side.

Don't be fear mongered into sacrificing your right to something you don't believe in. You need to go read up on it and not ask for someone else's opinion, because everyone has a different agenda. Find out for yourself and figure out what issues mean the most to you, then cast your vote. Don't ask for someone to vote for you.

[Cyrano]

tlarkin, perhaps you should change your pseudo to "Ostrich." With all due respect, you are burying your head in the sand and hoping the issue will go away. It's not about to, if either of the Democrats wins in November.

In 1992, no one thought that a gun ban could pass. In 1994, Slick Willy and the Clintonistas got one through Congress. The only mistake the Democrats made was to include a sunset provision if the ban was not renewed. The Democrats never thought they'd lose control of Congress... and that is the ONLY reason we don't have a national gun ban in place right now!

Do not count on DC v. Heller to settle the right to keep and bear arms in our favor. Roberts is noted for ruling as narrowly as possible, and he is very much aware that his Court has the first opportunity to set true Second Amendment precedents. While I will get gloriously drunk and go to the local Catholic church and light a candle in his honor if the decision comes down as a ringing, unlimited affirmation of the individual's absolute, inalienable right to own, keep and use guns without restriction, I know that's not going to happen. More likely is a ruling that confirms the individual's right to own and keep longarms without let, but that also allows the state to require permits for handguns and does not allow laws that require firearms to be kept in an unusable state except when actually firing. Unlikely is a confirmation of the DC law, because it is so blatantly unconstitutional. (I watched the arguments and the Justices really beat up on Dellinger, the rat fink lawyer who represented DC.)

Roberts is aware the intelligentsia and elitists don't like guns. He's also aware that if the government tries to take the guns from the people, there will be blood in the streets because the People will get up on their hind legs and say, "OH NO YOU DON'T!" At the very least there would be regime change in Washington. At worst, we'd have the Second Civil War.

Even if we win DC v. Heller, nanny-state jackasses like Obama, Clinton, Pelosi, McCarthy, Schumer, Feinstein and Kennedy aren't going to drop this issue. They are elitists who see the rest of the nation as unwashed booboisie. They want disarmed subjects, not armed citizens. Disarmed subjects are so much easier to control. HR 1022 is pigeonholed, not dead. If the Democrats win the general election, you can bet your bottom dollar that unconstitutional pile of tripe will suddenly get out on the floor for a vote on January 20, 2009. Our rights are not safe no matter how the Supreme Court rules on this issue.

Frankly, if you vote for a Democrat for President in 2008, you are voting to dismantle the Constitution. Bush is already performing butchery on it. You can bet Clinton or Obama would LOVE to pick up where Curious George leaves off! Remember: they neither of them want to govern. They, both of them, want to RULE. There is a vast difference there.

[tlarkin]

McCain is kind of a clone of bush, so I can't see how your opinions on the matter really hold that much water.

Also, to be honest the right to bear arms is vague, because arms really is a broad term for weapons. As technology has created millions of new weapons obviously there needs to be some restrictions. I don't want my neighbor owning chemical weapons for example.

Some restrictions may go too far, like assault rifles. It is not like you can conceal them really, and criminals will use them regardless of their legal status.

However, our economy is in the crapper. Mainly because of the war. We have increased 100 billion per a year of our spending each year over in the middle east. We aren't getting anywhere over there and ultimately accomplishing nothing. Every time we try to let the Iraqis run the place they don't do it right, refuse to fight and get fired (which happened recently when they were ordered to fight the sunis), or whatever factor comes into play. While we are wasting time and money, and more importantly now up to 4,000 US soldiers lives are gone. To top it all off the military is outsourcing this money to foreign countries, so that money isn't even going back into our economy. McCain stands to hurt this country in the long run longer than any restriction on fire arms.

I am looking at the bigger issues our country is facing. I guarantee more war in the middle east will just lead us into a worse economy, more poverty, and possibly worse things.

If McCain can change his mind and get the troops the $%$( out of there, then I may be more interested in him as president. There are also talks of them putting Condi as his VP, which I cannot stand her, and McCain is old as dirt and could go out at any time, then she would be president.

Too many factors are still in play. What I was telling the Original poster is to figure it out for himself, not for him to conform to my own or anyone else's ideals. He needs to form his own opinion and be his own person.

[mitch_mckee]

Originally Posted by tlarkin

McCain is kind of a clone of bush, so I can't see how your opinions on the matter really hold that much water.

Also, to be honest the right to bear arms is vague, because arms really is a broad term for weapons. As technology has created millions of new weapons obviously there needs to be some restrictions. I don't want my neighbor owning chemical weapons for example.

Some restrictions may go too far, like assault rifles. It is not like you can conceal them really, and criminals will use them regardless of their legal status.

However, our economy is in the crapper. Mainly because of the war. We have increased 100 billion per a year of our spending each year over in the middle east. We aren't getting anywhere over there and ultimately accomplishing nothing. Every time we try to let the Iraqis run the place they don't do it right, refuse to fight and get fired (which happened recently when they were ordered to fight the sunis), or whatever factor comes into play. While we are wasting time and money, and more importantly now up to 4,000 US soldiers lives are gone. To top it all off the military is outsourcing this money to foreign countries, so that money isn't even going back into our economy. McCain stands to hurt this country in the long run longer than any restriction on fire arms.

I am looking at the bigger issues our country is facing. I guarantee more war in the middle east will just lead us into a worse economy, more poverty, and possibly worse things.

If McCain can change his mind and get the troops the $%$( out of there, then I may be more interested in him as president. There are also talks of them putting Condi as his VP, which I cannot stand her, and McCain is old as dirt and could go out at any time, then she would be president.

Too many factors are still in play. What I was telling the Original poster is to figure it out for himself, not for him to conform to my own or anyone else's ideals. He needs to form his own opinion and be his own person.

Gads, guy, you need to get off the leftwing media for a break. You are sounding like Al Franken.

[tlarkin]

Mitch,

I will say this once to you clearly, and be done talking to you on this matter. I do not listen to the left wing media. I even listen to rush sometimes, and while I do think he is a big fat hypocritical idiot, I still listen to his side. I have read Ann coulter books. I have also read Al Frankens.

I read both sides and make my own decisions while you just listen to what you want to hear and it clearly shows it in your voice on what you post.

example to sum it up:

Original poster: Hey, I want to vote Democrat, which one do you guys think would be better for gun rights

You: If you don't agree with me you are an idiot and here is some name calling: Conform to my idea of life or don't vote just stay home.

I agree, I am just urging him to excercise his right to stay home.

Me - Figure it out for yourself and don't just buy into anything anyone says, we all have our own agenda.

I think I spoke more truth than you did.

/done

[LarryO1970]

Hey tlarkin... did you read this?

Hillary wants to bring back the AWB (Assault Weapons Ban) from her husband's Presidency. This was shown to not work... as most gun crimes are not committed with "assault rifles"... but with cheap handguns or shotguns.

Barack Obama made his feelings clear with his Freudian Slip earlier this month. His feeling is that nobody should have guns.

John McCain is a mixed bag… but the best supporter of 2nd Amendment Rights of either candidate.

To challenge what I've said... look up their Senate voting records.

Senator Clinton:

Click here for 15 full quotes on Gun Control OR background on Gun Control.

• Get assault weapons & guns off the street. (Jul 2007)
• Background check system could prevent Virginia Tech massacre. (Apr 2007)
• FactCheck: VA Tech shooter not declared a danger to others. (Apr 2007)
• Congress' failure at Littleton response inspired Senate run. (Nov 2003)
• Keep guns away from people who shouldn’t have them. (Sep 2000)
• Limit access to weapons; look for early warning signs. (Sep 2000)
• License and register all handgun sales. (Jun 2000)
• Tough gun control keeps guns out of wrong hands. (Jul 1999)
• Gun control protects our children. (Jul 1999)
• Don’t water down sensible gun control legislation. (Jul 1999)
• Lock up guns; store ammo separately. (Jun 1999)
• Ban kids’ unsupervised access to guns. (Jun 1999)
• Get weapons off the streets; zero tolerance for weapons. (Sep 1996)
• Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005)
• Voted NO on banning lawsuits against gun manufacturers for gun violence. (Mar 2004)

Barack Obama:
Click here for 4 full quotes on Gun Control OR background on Gun Control.

• Stop unscrupulous gun dealers dumping guns in cities. (Jul 2007)
• Keep guns out of inner cities--but also problem of morality. (Oct 2006)
• Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions. (Jul 1998)
• Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005)

John McCain:
Click here for 18 full quotes on Gun Control OR background on Gun Control.

• I know how to use guns; but I don't own one. (Nov 2007)
• Prosecute criminals, not citizens for gun ownership. (Sep 2007)
• Don't hold gun manufacturers liable for crimes. (Sep 2007)
• Opposes restrictions on assault weapons and ammunition types. (Sep 2007)
• Ban cheap guns; require safety locks; for gun show checks. (Aug 1999)
• Supports ban on certain assault weapons. (Aug 1999)
• Voted against Brady Bill & assault weapon ban. (Aug 1999)
• Guns are a problem, but so are violent web sites & videos. (Aug 1999)
• Punish criminals who abuse 2nd Amendment rights. (May 1999)
• Youth Violence Prevention Act restricts guns for kids. (May 1999)
• Repeal existing gun restrictions; penalize criminal use. (Jul 1998)
• Voted YES on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005)
• Voted YES on banning lawsuits against gun manufacturers for gun violence. (Mar 2004)
• Voted NO on background checks at gun shows. (May 1999)
• Voted YES on more penalties for gun & drug violations. (May 1999)
• Voted YES on loosening license & background checks at gun shows. (May 1999)
• Voted YES on maintaining current law: guns sold without trigger locks. (Jul 1998)

... or are you done replying to me too ?

[mitch_mckee]

Originally Posted by tlarkin

Mitch,

I will say this once to you clearly, and be done talking to you on this matter. I do not listen to the left wing media. I even listen to rush sometimes, and while I do think he is a big fat hypocritical idiot, I still listen to his side. I have read Ann coulter books. I have also read Al Frankens.

I read both sides and make my own decisions while you just listen to what you want to hear and it clearly shows it in your voice on what you post.

example to sum it up:

Original poster: Hey, I want to vote Democrat, which one do you guys think would be better for gun rights

You: If you don't agree with me you are an idiot and here is some name calling: Conform to my idea of life or don't vote just stay home.


Me - Figure it out for yourself and don't just buy into anything anyone says, we all have our own agenda.

I think I spoke more truth than you did.

/done

It's just that you seem so confused on what you believe. You earnestly want to be a neo liberal, yet some of their crap turns you off.

[Cyrille]

Well if it's the demoncrate nominee you're gonna vote for No, it makes not a whit of diffrence which one gets the nomination! Can you say EVIL Personafied?

[TexasT]

McCain is not a saint just because he "supports" gun rights. They all have their own agendas and are masquerading under some political title.

[scoutman]

if hillbilly gets office what rag headed saudi or middle east leader will listen to her they have no respect for us as it is if she gets office we will lose any respect they give us


if you dont want to vote give ur vote to ol ralphy



im am sick of hillary trying to take our rights away i would love to tell her to go to hell

[9mmfan]

I wished this country had a strong independent party.

[Big Dog]

If everyone who plans to NOT VOTE because he/she doesn't like either the Dems or the GOP would vote for Ron Paul, we could see some real and positive change.
We CAN make our votes count if we have the cojones to get out and DO IT!!

[LarryO1970]

Did either one of the candidates mention supporting the 2nd Amendment or ?

I didn't watch, Obama (to me) is another elitist liar and Hillary simply makes me nauseous...

[tlarkin]

Originally Posted by mitch_mckee

It's just that you seem so confused on what you believe. You earnestly want to be a neo liberal, yet some of their crap turns you off.

No Mitch, I am well aware of what I believe in. I am more of a Liberal Conservative if you want to get technical about it, however I am a registered Independent and I do vote for whomever I think is best, or I vote for whatever I think is right on county and city votes.

I hate both extremes, but I do sit there and listen to them and read their writings. Mainly because I am a big fan of know your enemy type of philosophy. I also don't buy in to a lot of crap that is going on in the media and politics.

I belong to no party, nor do I cater to either side. I am however, liberal in my views which is why you assume that I am a liberal, and your assumptions on some of what I think is true. I am a liberal on certain subjects, and in others I am conservative.

Perhaps this concept just seems too odd for you, and you need to label me as a left wing nut so you can better understand it. When you label something you negate it.

[LarryO1970]

I'll suggest you refer back to the Cyrano post #25. Enough said.

[tlarkin]

Originally Posted by LarryO1970

I'll suggest you refer back to the Cyrano post #25. Enough said.

*sigh*

OK, I'll feed the troll...

Please refer to my previous post.

[LarryO1970]

LOL ... your too funny.