6mm vs 243

Discussion in 'General Rifle' started by texnmidwest, Aug 28, 2010.

  1. texnmidwest

    texnmidwest Sir Loin of Beef Forum Contributor

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    My brother and I were talking last night about the differences between the 6mm Remington and the 243. I own a 243 he owns a 6mm.

    He seems to believe that the 6mm Remington is a better round. I say with factory loads they are clone. FIELD performance is negligible (sp?). But handloaded the 6mm may have an edge but only slightly.


    What do you all think?
  2. mouser868

    mouser868 G&G Enthusiast

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    At this point in time the 6mm is better with the heavier .243 cal bullets, those above 100 gr.
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2010
  3. texnmidwest

    texnmidwest Sir Loin of Beef Forum Contributor

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    Do you think that is because most of the 6mm's out there have a faster twist rate barrel? Researching twist rates now. Sad that not even remington seems to make a 6mm rifle anymore.
  4. mouser868

    mouser868 G&G Enthusiast

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    The faster twist has alot to do with it
  5. samuel

    samuel G&G Newbie

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    I would like to see anyone find a .244" jacketed bullet that was made intentionally.However,you can get molds and produce cast .244 bullets. Whether .244Rem,6mmRem,.243Win,.243WSSM,6.17mmLazzeroni,.240Weatherby,or any of the BR,cartridges,they all are designed and use the .243 bullet.Yes the .244/6mm-Rem has a slight (very slight) fps advantage when reloading because of it,s case capacity and the fact that a slower burn rate powder can be used.Also the 6mm in factory fodder has a slight edge as most factory loads for like a 100gr bullet are about 3100fps compared to the same bullet in a .243 is factory rated at about 2960fps.The short,fat cartridge seems to win again in the accuracy dept tho,as Br,rs seem to prefer the .243Win.This is usually with a modified twist rate of anywhere between 1:8 and 1:12..243Win has held many bench rest records.I am sure 6mm-Rem has too,it just never was that popular.I own and load for both (mostly for varmint but also for deer,antelope,hogs,and black bear.I use the 58gr vmax for varmints and 100gr Sierra GK for all larger animals.(also to save damage to pelts).I find the comparison of the two (>243Win vs 6mm-Rem about equal to the comparison of the .308Win and the .30-06 Springfield. ,,,sam.
  6. mouser868

    mouser868 G&G Enthusiast

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    The reason the 244 Remington lost out to the 243 was because when Remington first brought it out it wasn't able to stabilize the heavier .243 cal bullets, the rifling was too slow. If Remington would have done it right the first time the 243 might have lost out, something we may never know.
  7. nathangdad

    nathangdad G&G Newbie

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    Samuel and another point

    As he so often does, Samuel has made a very interesting and relevant post.

    The classic .243 Winchester is one of my two favorite cartridges. One reason it has done so well over the years is that Winchester did a lot up front research into the needs of American hunters. Although I was young, I do recall when it came out. The .243 Winchester was immediately popular with people wanting a longer range accurate cartridge for antelope, coyote, and deer. The lack of recoil and muzzle blast especially when compared to the .30-06 was appreciated by many shooters.

    In my lifetime there have been many "variants" of the .243 Winchester yet the classic round continues in the production lines of many rifle firms and stays on the shelves of dealers. This says a lot for the always important final judgement of the marketplace.
  8. ChaZam

    ChaZam G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

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    ^^^

    Seems the consensus opinion on that controversy always hinged on the slow twist rate Remington chose to use not being able to stabilize a variety of bullet weights. With a faster twist rate it would have been equally successful in all likelyhood.
  9. samuel

    samuel G&G Newbie

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    I don't think that would have been the case,altho there is no way to tell,"EXCEPT" both were used extensively in competition of all types including class F and bench rest.The lil short catridge seems to have dominated accuracy in the competition field the same as the .308win dominated the .30-06.I don't claim to know what makes these lil shorties more accurate but it is a fact we must accept.Look at the benchrest chamberings which are basically a 7.62X39 necked down,and other what I call "short,fat" casings.Ive heard/read many reasons,some plausable,some plain wild.But the truth is they seem to be more accurate even tho we can't get as much velocity because of the powder burn difference.I honestly believe the .243win would have bested the .244rem even if both had had 1:10twist instead of the 1:12 twist rem hung on the .244 because they were thinking "VARMINT". My kind of people!!! ,,,sam.
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2010
  10. big boomer

    big boomer G&G Enthusiast

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    I had to choose between the 6mm and 243 in a ruger m77. I took the 243 because its easier to find ammo and its less spendy the performance is so similar why make it hard on yourself.
  11. DUGABOY1

    DUGABOY1 G&G Newbie

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    I will freely admit my bias toward the 243 Win, and I owned the 243 Win long before Winchester came out with it as a factory round. I was shooting the 243 Win on deer, and antelope long, long ago. It was then a wildcat called the “240 Page Pooper” ! The wild cat was the brain storm of Warren Page and was a killer of whitetail, muledeer, and prong horn long before the Winchester name for the cartridge with absolutely no physical change in the case or bullet diameter or weight. The cartridge was developed for the 100 gr .243 spitzer bullet, from a 1 in 10" twist barrel, and the load was, believe it or not,designed for the old surplus powder 4831! IMR 4831 still today is the best powder for the 243 Win, and in that case I use that powder, and the Hornady 100 gr spitzer, flat base bullet loaded to 3000 fps. I find this combination to be deadly on Muledeer, whitetail, pronghorn It kills like a lightening strike!

    The thing, IMO, that killed the 244 Rem, the 6mm Rem, and almost killed the 243 win was guys out west tried to take on Muledeer with the 244 Rem with the only ammo available for it which was designed for varmints not deer. Once Rem changed the name and made the barrel with a faster twist for heavier bullets the 6mm was already tagged with “DEER WOUNDER” handle by a lot of folks who had absolutely no idea of what they were talking about. This was caused by folks who only shot factory ammo, but savvy hand-loaders had already solved the problem by simply using heavier bullets in the 243 Win which was always fitted with 1:10” twist barrels. The other thing was hand-loaders knew that the surplus 308 cases could simply run into a 243 Win die, and trimmed made good 243 Win cases, while the 6mm was based on the 257 Rob case, which were already hard to find, and Remington was the only game in town.

    The rifles the 243Win was chambered in made all over the world outnumbered 6mm rifles 5 to 1. My favorite rifle chambered for 243 Winchester , and (I own several rifles so chambered), is a 1961 MCA, Mannlicher- Shoenauer rifle that I bought new many years ago, and after several thousand rounds down the tube will still shoot 5 shot ¾" groups at 100 yes every time. However I have never owned a 243Win rifle that was not a tack driver.

    I think, properly loaded the 6mm is a fine cartridge and the .243 dia 100 gr bullet if properly made is a killer delux at 2900 to 3000 fps, what ever case it comes out of!
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2010
  12. roverboy

    roverboy G&G Newbie

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    I found a cartridge in Cartridges of the World 10th Ed. Its called the 6x57. Made in Germany around 1895. It looks like Remington was beat by about 60 years on the .244. The .244/6mm is made on the x57 case. I don't mean to be a smart--- but I guess I am. This cartridge had 2 bullet weights: 120 and 123gr. I just thought this was interesting.
  13. samuel

    samuel G&G Newbie

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    ^ Intresting!Thanks,I'll try to find it. ,,,sam.
  14. mouser868

    mouser868 G&G Enthusiast

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    This is quite interesting, what was the rate of twist on this?? I loaned my copy of Cartridges of the World to my dad so he could do some loading for 8X56R from published data, and that was all we could find.
  15. bobvonb

    bobvonb G&G Enthusiast

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    My next build will be a 6mmRem. Mostly because it is on the 8x57 case, and therefore the bolts and feed mechanisms of Mausers are a perfect fit. While I agree it is only slightly better than the 243 (if I'm not doing bench rest competition) I think better is the operative word. I've already got a Lee Die set and about 200 primed brass ready with 100 Hornady lead free varmint bullets and 100 100gr CoreLokts ready for loading on the next cool evening. And although this build is not started yet, I've already decided that I will NEED a 257 Roberts to go with the 6mm and my 7x57. I guess that will lead me to an 8x57 Elk-buster someday too. GeeWhiz... too bad I'll have all this fun building guns!

    that battery should match up nicely with someone else who has a 243, 25-06, 260/7-08/308, and 30-06, which would also be a very nice set to possess.

    my online loading guide shows bullets for the 243 Win as .243" and then in tiny letters -.0030, and for the 6mmRem .243" -.0030 and +.0005. I don't know what that's all about but there may be a slight difference in SAMII specifications between the two.

    so, for the question, 243 or 6mm? there is no wrong answer.
  16. roverboy

    roverboy G&G Newbie

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    Mouser868, it didn't say what the twist rate was. But with a bullet from 120-123 it would've had to be fast like 1in 8 or similar. It said the velocities was only like 2600 or so. With modern powders, that could probably be beat a little
  17. zxpilot

    zxpilot G&G Newbie

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    one other thing back then the american public wanted nothing to do with the metric system.
    the 6mm, 7mm express, 7 mm mauser, 6.5, 8mm mag etc. etc. didnt do well.
    Just cause of the name.
  18. samuel

    samuel G&G Newbie

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  19. Blackrock

    Blackrock G&G Enthusiast

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    I have owned one .243 Win and two 6MM Rems and I just like the 6MM's better.
    No emperical stats, I just like the 6MM. My well used Rem 788 in 6MM is a great Varmint rifle and has taken Antelope and Whitetail.
  20. mouser868

    mouser868 G&G Enthusiast

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