Buying through private seller

Discussion in 'The Powder Keg' started by Jellybean18, Feb 9, 2010.

  1. Jellybean18

    Jellybean18 G&G Newbie

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    *note* Sorry if this doesnt seem very coherent, I've been up for 22 hr. now.

    I'm about to buy a handgun from a guy I work with. He got into a lot of trouble with his wife when she found out that he bought it and told him its her or the gun. It's not stolen or anything, he just got it a few days ago. Its the 4th Gen Glock 22. I live in AL and the law says I can buy a handgun through a private seller at 18 (I'm 19). I'm majoring in Law Enforcement and I want to go ahead and get a jump start on weapons training. My parents don't even acknowledge my decision, and they don't support getting a handgun. Hence me buying through private seller. I've called both my police Dept. and Sherriff's office, and the people there have MAJOR attitudes and aren't helpful in any way shape or form. So My questions are these: What do I need to do to get the gun transferred into my name? What does the seller need to do? It probably looks like a "Straw purchase" but it's not. How long should I wait before we have the gun transferred into my name so that it doesn't look like a straw purchase (which again, it is NOT). To my understanding, a straw purchase would be if I had him purchase the gun just so he could have it transferred to my name. Is that correct? But because he never had the intent of selling the gun when he bought it, it wouldn't be a straw purchase. My family is pretty well know in my town, and we're family friends of the Sheriff. So in your reply, please let me know if you were the sheriff, what you would do? Also, AL law says that I need a pistol permit to move a handgun in my truck. The county says i need to be 21 to get one (State says 18, but counties can set it higher). Are Sheriff's aloud to make exceptions for individuals? If one of the surrounding counties age limit is 18/19, could I get a permit from there? If ANYTHING I've said in my post is illegal according to AL law, then I won't be buying this pistol and I'll just wait until I'm 21 (2 1/2 years). Thanks ahead of time for any help given.
  2. Mooseman684

    Mooseman684 G&G Newbie

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    Tough Question to answer with so many variables...If it is legal for you to buy it at 19 from a private seller , then I dont see a problem until you want to drive home with it...I would have him come to my house, Buy it, put it away and find an Adult that could transport you and the gun legally to the range and Back until you can get a permit, which I never heard of...to transport it your self.
    There is No "Registration" so you pay him , get a receipt with the serial number on it as proof of purchase...you are legal Owner...thats it.
    Since he bought it for himself and not for you , it is Not a Straw purchase...
    Join a local shooting club....May help you in getting a permit , may not !
    Laws should be standardized so this doesnt happen...
  3. Sav .250

    Sav .250 G&G Enthusiast

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    "it`s her or the gun." Looks like his man-card is about to be torn up..
  4. deadzero

    deadzero G&G Enthusiast Forum Contributor

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    don't worry about the concept of it being a straw purchase. that only applies if a gun is purchased for someone who can not legally posess a firearm.

    you need a license to carry a handgun (as in concealed).

    you do not need a license to transport a handgun if properly secured. (see attached link)


    Gun Laws in Alabama - What Are the Gun Laws in Alabama?


    for additional information I would contact the NRA.

    I hope this helps. sounds like your dealing with anti-gun LEO's
  5. deadzero

    deadzero G&G Enthusiast Forum Contributor

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    +1
  6. Archetype_wyo

    Archetype_wyo G&G Enthusiast

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    As far as I know its 18 for private sale of any firearm and from over the counter its 18 for rifles and 21 for handguns (handguns may vary in your state for over the counter).
  7. Jellybean18

    Jellybean18 G&G Newbie

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    I having trouble finding where it says that, all I found is this:

    Carrying:


    • It is unlawful to carry a concealed pistol, firearm, or airgun without a permit.
    • It is unlawful to carry a rifle or shotgun walking cane.
    • No person shall carry a pistol in any vehicle or concealed on or about his person, except on his land, in his own home or fixed place of business, without a license.
    • Exempt from this prohibition are law enforcement officers, common carriers, and persons carrying unloaded handguns in a secure wrapper from a place of purchase to one’s home or business, or to or from a place of repair, or in moving from one home or business to another.

    The third dot kinda backs up what I'm saying. I also read on another website that [in a secure container] you can only transport [without a permit] a handgun from the place of purchase to your home, from your home to you place of business or vice versa, or from your home to a place of repair.
    Also, this concerns me:
    The sheriff of a county may, upon the application of any person residing In that county, issue a qualified or unlimited license to carry a handgun in a vehicle or concealed on or about one's person for not more than one year if the applicant:

    • Is 21 years of age.
    • Has good reason to fear injury to his person or property.
    • Has any other proper reason for carrying a handgun.
    • "Is a suitable person" to be so licensed.
    But here: How to Get a Permit to Carry a Concealed Weapon in Alabama | eHow.com

    it says I must be 18 or older, is there a difference between a qualified/unlimited license and a regular license? Thanks again for all the help.
  8. Mooseman684

    Mooseman684 G&G Newbie

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    Apparently , they are talking about a loaded Handgun , you need a License to either Carry it concealed or like in the glove compartment or on the seat Loaded... Otherwise , you can transport it unloaded in A locked container I bet with the ammo separate from the gun Like if you are going to a shooting range, etc. Since your STATE issues CCW Licenses , I would think it would Trump any "County Law" as an Affirmative Defense , so I would Contact the people that put on the Licensing course and they should be able to help you.
  9. Jellybean18

    Jellybean18 G&G Newbie

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    Ok, I just got off the phone with the ATF in Montgomery AL and the man I spoke with said that if the gun is in a container, then it is considered concealed, however, if I leave it unloaded separate from ammo, and have just the gun sitting in my passenger seat, then it is NOT considered concealed. Now that opposes this: "No person shall carry a pistol in any vehicle or concealed on or about his person, except on his land, in his own home or fixed place of business, without a license." What do y'all think of this?

    P.S.Mooseman, if you could, I'd appreciate a link or something showing me where you found that info about keeping it locked and unloaded.
  10. ninjatoth

    ninjatoth G&G Newbie

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    State law always sepercedes county laws-if you can't get a pistol purchasing permit because the county changed the age to 18 then they are going to be in a bit of trouble.I would fight it.Now to straw purchases-a straw purchase is when person A who can't legally own a gun, gets person B to take his money and buy the gun for him.Seeing as that you HAVE to get a background check to be given the pistol purchasing permit,no one could ever question it as a straw purchase because you were cleared to buy a gun beforehand-it's all legal to buy his gun.
  11. mitchr

    mitchr G&G Enthusiast

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    Make sure of the law first. Many states allow someone under 21 to buy/own long guns, but require them to be 21 for handguns. A true "straw purchase" would be when someone buys a firearm to give or sell to someone who can NOT legally buy it himself. If you can go to a gun store & buy a pistol on your own, without parents' permission, then it would not be a straw purchase. But ALWAYS read & double check the laws for yourself, do not take someone's word for it. I also believe federal laws may come into play.
  12. Mooseman684

    Mooseman684 G&G Newbie

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    I got the Info straight from The Alabama Attorney Generals Office...
    Quote: "RE: ALABAMA PISTOL LAWS AND CARRYING/TRANSPORTING A PISTOL

    The following synopsis of Alabama law is furnished for general information only, and does not constitute legal advice or counsel:

    Alabama law prohibits any person from carrying a pistol in any vehicle or concealed on or about their person without a pistol permit license. Code of Alabama, 1975, section 13A-11-73. Under Alabama law, a "pistol" is defined as "any firearm with a barrel less than 12 inches in length." Licenses to carry a pistol are issued by local county sheriffs in Alabama. A person must be a resident of that county to apply for and be issued a pistol permit license. Alabama as of August 1, 2001 under Act 2001-494 has provisions for recognizing pistol permits or concealed weapon licenses issued by states who will recognize pistol permits issued by Alabama.

    The license requirement of section 13A-11-73 does not apply to "regularly employed" law enforcement officers; to members of the armed forces or National Guard while on duty or going to or from duty; to persons engaged in manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in pistols; or to any person permitted by law to possess a pistol while carrying it unloaded in a secure wrapper, from the place of purchase to his home or place of business, or to or from a place of repair or in moving from one place of abode or business to another. Section 13A-11-74.

    It is our interpretation of the Code of Alabama that "regularly employed" law enforcement means full time, sworn law enforcement officers. Such persons are exempt from the requirement to possess a permit and may carry their pistols concealed or unconcealed.

    The State of Alabama does recognize pistol licenses or permits to carry concealed weapons issued by other states who will recognize Alabama pistol licenses. [See the list posted above.] Also, a person may carry or transport a long gun (rifle or shotgun) without a permit. A person may lawfully transport a firearm, including a handgun, from one state in which they are legal to possess to another state without a permit as required under Alabama law, provided the following conditions are met:

    The firearm is unloaded.
    Neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle.
    In case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver's compartment, the firearm and ammunition shall be in a locked container other than the glove box or console.
    Title 18 U.S.C. section 926A
    Under Alabama law, no person convicted in this state or elsewhere of a "crime of violence" may own or possess a pistol. Section 13A-11-72. Crimes of violence are defined as murder, manslaughter, rape, assault, robbery, burglary, kidnapping, and larceny. No person addicted to drugs or habitually intoxicated may own or possess a pistol. Section 13A-11-72. Any person in violation of Alabama’s pistol laws may be arrested and upon conviction, subjected to a term of imprisonment of not more than one year and a fine of not more than $500, or both. The pistol will be seized and may be forfeited by court order.

    The link is...Alabama Attorney General - Issues

    What you seem to be Confusing is the Terms "Carrying Vs. Transporting"
    The whole Object is the Safety of Yourself and Police officers you may get stopped By , and If You have a gun in the seat ,Even Unloaded, You are gonna be Thrown to the ground and Handcuffed and probably charged...Because it is too "Readily accessible" , The same as if you are carrying it concealed on your person while Driving and If you arent Licensed, you will be Arrested and Charged. or carrying it Loaded in The Glove compartment..That is A Concealed weapon...But NOT if it is in the trunk, unloaded in a locked case with the ammo separate...That is Transporting it Lawfully, like if you are going hunting or to the shooting Range. I suggest you contact The Alabama AG office, and the local People offering CCW Licensing Classes to get the Correct Info from the people that deal with it.
    ATF does not Deal with State Laws...Only Federal Laws and they usually dont Know the regs themselves...

    Rich
  13. Jellybean18

    Jellybean18 G&G Newbie

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    I positive of the law, it says that you must be 18 or older to own a handgun, I've also talked to the local PD, Sheriff's Office, and the local ATF office, all said I can buy through private seller when I am 18. So what do both parties need to do so we have the pistol transferred into my name? Someone mentioned earlier that all we need is a bill of sale, but I read somewhere else that we need to take it to the sheriff's office and fill out some paper work. Also, when I called the PD, the snooty women I spoke with asked me if the gun was registered here. The seller bought the gun 1 county over and I honestly don't know what she's talking about? Aren't all gun registrations filed in a national database of some sorts?
  14. Mooseman684

    Mooseman684 G&G Newbie

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    Gun Registration Between citizens is not necessary...Just get a bill of sale.
    The Only Registration is when you Buy a firearm from a Licensed FFL Dealer, and it is Only That FFL that has the records , but can be viewed BY the ATF in the course of a Criminal Investigation...Otherwise ,Private Transactions between Citizens is just That, PRIVATE...Get a Receipt to show who you bought it from with the serial number listed. The firearm can be tracked by the ATF to the original Purchaser , who can then show with his copy of the receipt that you bought it , they would then come to you and you have the gun and the receipt showing Lawful purchase...Thats basically it.
    I buy guns like that all the time because it is legal By Federal Law for Residents of the same state to sell Face to Face to each other without any further paperwork or Registration...The receipt just Covers your Butt !
  15. Jellybean18

    Jellybean18 G&G Newbie

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    thanks. So what would be considered a bill of sale? Do I need to go buy a blank one? Where would I be able to get it? <--- If no, then do I just right on a piece of paper than I am buying it? <--- if yes, what information needs to be included?


    *edit* google helped me find one
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2010
  16. Hog Red

    Hog Red G&G Newbie

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    just get a bill of sale to cover yourself otherwise he could just report it stolen and finger you (far fetched i know but it could happen). you wouldn't buy a car from a friend without a title would you. you dont have to register squat. federal law is 18 from private seller and i dont think alabama is more restrictive.
    wouldn't leave a gun laying in my seat loaded or unloaded unless i want to kiss the pavement and that is probably the best that would happen if you were pulled over by a LEO.
  17. deadzero

    deadzero G&G Enthusiast Forum Contributor

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    they should not. at least by law they are not suppose to be. but what goes on once you volunteer this information to government authorities is anyones guess.

    Gun sales are completely different. when we sell a firearm (retail outlet) we file the completed paperwork , every month in seperate containers, that is stored on our premises. it is not turned over to anyone* unless we should go out of business, then it is turned over to a state repository. the federal government does not get the forms and the information contained in them. even when calling in a background check they can not ask for the serial number of the firearm. this system is in place to protect gun ownership. if the federal government can ever get to the point it can put a name and social security number and link that to a firearm serial number then they will have a federal gun registration, something the NRA has fought long and hard against, with something like this in place, gun confiscation is only the stroke of a pen away.

    this is one of the most important fights the NRA is involved in. anyone who is a gun owner and is not part of the NRA is simply a silent statistic. I ask those people to join the NRA now, today, and be heard.


    *(except for reverse search inquiries by LEO on our premises)
    if a gun is used in a crime they go to the manufacturer, trace its movement to a wholesaler, then trace it to a retailer, then go thru the records to see who bought the gun, then to the individual to see who he may have sold it to, or loaned it to, or had it stolen, ect.
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2010
  18. Taurus Fan

    Taurus Fan G&G Newbie

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    Wow he should trade the gun in for something he'd have a use for, like a box of tampons.
  19. ninjatoth

    ninjatoth G&G Newbie

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    I used to think things were messed up here in MI until I am reading how everything is up in the air down there to getting a pistol transferred.Here in MI all handguns must be registered,and you must get a pistol purchasing permit before you buy the gun,then you and the seller fill out and sign the permit and then it's registered to you.Long guns don't need to be registered here,so private sales of long guns is similar to what it is down there.Are you absolutely sure your state don't require registration of handguns?
  20. mitchr

    mitchr G&G Enthusiast

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    deadzero,

    What if a federal agency, BATFE, FBI, etc. came in & demanded you turn over all records to them? Would that be legal? What recourse would you have to refuse?
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