Finishing an 80% receiver?

Discussion in 'The Powder Keg' started by stitchclimber, Jun 20, 2008.

  1. stitchclimber

    stitchclimber G&G Newbie

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    I was looking at a pre- bent, un-drilled AK receiver at my gunstore. How hard would it be to drill and cut it out? If it's doable, I can buy the receiver for less than $50 and the kits on gunbroker for $200-$300 and have a decent AK.

    Has any one else on here tried this?

    If I got the 80%, could I legally have someone else (machine shop) finish it for me and return it to me with out a transfer?
  2. Mike Franklin

    Mike Franklin G&G Newbie

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    Used to, it's been awhile, you had to have a manufactors license to finish out a reciever.
    BTW, there likely a very good reason that this sounds like a good deal.
  3. Irishman

    Irishman Suspended

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    Why? You can buy an NDS3 for $55.00.

    NO! If you're building your own only a licenced manufacturer or a gunsmith licenced through an FFL may work on you receiver.

    Now you didn't mention tooling. Rivets? Jigs? Press? etc...


    Irish

    [​IMG]
    Here's one of my home builds. Yugo M90 556X45

    Irish
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2008
  4. stitchclimber

    stitchclimber G&G Newbie

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    that's a pretty Ak, but I dont think I'm cut out to build my own yet.
  5. Mooseman684

    Mooseman684 G&G Newbie

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    Where do you guys get this FALSE Information from ????
    You as a citizen can make or build your own weapon, RECEIVER and all if you so desire to...You need NO license or anything. You can NOT sell it or Make them for resale however. You can Build 1 gun a year... You should put your name and City and state on it...But not required.
    I built an Ak from a bent Blank with hand tools, drill press, Dremel, and files...
    I figure about 12 hours total by hand...the hardest part was the layout and measurements first...
    How much was the Blank Bent receiver ????
    Rich
  6. stitchclimber

    stitchclimber G&G Newbie

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    i just glanced at it in the store I want to say it was $30-$40. It was pre bent and had a paper layout glued to it, showing where all the holes, dimples and cuts needed to be.
  7. Mooseman684

    Mooseman684 G&G Newbie

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    I would like to get One...I have a flat with all the holes in it that needs to be bent but I dont have a Jig for it, and cant find one to rent or borrow....
    Rich
  8. just_a_car

    just_a_car G&G Newbie

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    I too, want to be able to make my own someday soon and would prefer to drill holes in a pre-bent receiver than have to bend a drilled receiver. But, from what I understand, you REALLY want the rails already installed, as it requires welding.
  9. Mooseman684

    Mooseman684 G&G Newbie

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    I have the 220 V Spot welder and stuff to harden all the pin holes and rails !
    I need a Bent blank and some time !!!
  10. stitchclimber

    stitchclimber G&G Newbie

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  11. just_a_car

    just_a_car G&G Newbie

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    Hey Rich, what kind of riveter do you need for those rivets?... And, better yet, can I find it at Harbor Freight? :D
  12. Mooseman684

    Mooseman684 G&G Newbie

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    A slightly cupped punch about 5/16 to 3/8 inch diameter at the tip and a big hammer, also a good piece of steel with a drilled indention for the heads of the rivets to sit in and support the rivet, It helps to heat the rivet up red with a torch and drive it home !!!
    For the trunnions, I drill out the cut rivets, and tap them for 10/32 button head allen Machine screws Grade 8...bolt them in with loctite...Never failed yet !
    Tapco Now sells the screw and Rivet kits !
    Rich
  13. Irishman

    Irishman Suspended

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    Rich,

    Comprehension, it's a lost art.
    Reread his original question. What false information was given? Other than I misspelled license where did I steer him wrong?
    Yes you may build your own but may not receive help, not from a machineist, not from your buddy, not from your poppa. The only person aside from yourself that may work on your receiver is a licensed manufacturer or a FFL/gunsmith.

    Yes you will need a spot welder for the lower rails and in my opinion screw builds are crap. No you are NOT too heat up your rivets, they are to be pressed cold. It's not as easy as it sounds and most of us have built 3 to 4 of them before we get it right. It's a sad time to start buying kits as the cost of learning is now expensive.

    Irish

    [​IMG]
    Just for shits and grins-
    This is the rivet press I had made for me. My design.

    This forums offers no help to the home builder so I don't even know where to start.

    I've seen many built as you describe, big hammer and bucking plate and beat away, well you get what you pay for.

    Irish
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2008
  14. Mooseman684

    Mooseman684 G&G Newbie

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    Getting help from a machinist or friend is NOT in the Law....as far as a Home built gun is concerned, anybody can help you build one...It Just cannot be for resale...
    I rivet By hand and it works just fine for me....
    Screw builds are not CRAP...I can dis-assemble if Need be...,and I can assemble without having to press the barrel out of the trunnion and press it back in...
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2008
  15. Irishman

    Irishman Suspended

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    You are dead wrong!!!!!!!!!!!! Period.


    Irish

    http://www.atf.gov/firearms/building_a_firearm.pdf


    Here is one BATF letter regarding home building. It is common knowledge by those who home build that you may manufature your OWN receiver and then assemble your OWN gun but you may NOT solicit the help of unlicensed individuals.

    I will continue to look for more legal on this subject.

    There are also liabilities that have not been mentioned.

    Irish

    The AK Files Forums - Legal Question

    Go here and read dstorm's response.

    If you guys want any real info look into this forum.

    Irish - AKA lsmurphy
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2008
  16. Mooseman684

    Mooseman684 G&G Newbie

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    From the site you mentioned.....
    Manufacturing of Firearms
    Below are examples of operations performed on firearms and guidance as to
    whether or not such operations would be considered manufacturing under the Gun Control Act (GCA). These examples do not address the question of whether the operations are considered manufacturing for purposes of determining excise tax. Any questions concerning the payment of excise tax should be directed to theAlcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau, U.S. Department of the Treasury.
    Generally,

    a person should obtain a license as a manufacturer of firearms if the
    person is:

    1. performing operations which create firearms or alter firearms (in the
    case of alterations, the work is not being performed at the request of customers,
    rather the person who is altering the firearms is purchasing them, making the
    changes, and then reselling them), 2. is performing the operations as a regular
    course of business or trade, and 3. is performing the operations for the purpose of sale or distribution of the firearms.


    1. A company produces a quantity of firearm frames or receivers
    for sale to customers who will assemble firearms.

    The company is engaged in the business of manufacturing firearms and should be
    licensed as a manufacturer of firearms.


    2. A company produces frames or receivers for another company
    that assembles and sells the firearms.

    Both companies are engaged in the business of manufacturing firearms and each
    should be licensed as a manufacturer of
    firearms.


    3. A company provides frames to a subcontractor company that performs
    machining operations on the frames and returns the frames to
    the original company which assembles and sells the completed firearms.

    Both companies are engaged in the business of manufacturing firearms and
    should be licensed as manufacturers of firearms.


    4. A company produces barrels for firearms and sells the barrels
    to another company that assembles and sells complete firearms.

    Because barrels are not firearms, the company that manufactures the barrels is not a manufacturer of firearms. The company that assembles and sells the firearms should be licensed as a manufacturer of firearms.


    5. A company receives firearm frames from individual customers,
    attaches stocks and barrels and returns the firearms to the
    customers for the customers' personal use.

    The operations performed on the firearms were not for the
    purpose of sale or distribution. The company should be licensed as a dealer or
    gunsmith, not as a manufacturer of firearms.


    6. A company acquires one receiver, assembles one firearm, and
    sells the firearm.

    The company is not manufacturing firearms as a regular course
    of trade or business and is not engaged in the business of
    manufacturing firearms. This company does not need to be licensed as a
    manufacturer.


    7. An individual acquires frames or receivers and assembles
    firearms for his personal use, not for sale or distribution.

    The individual is not manufacturing firearms for sale or distribution and is not
    required to be a licensed manufacturer.


    8. A gunsmith regularly buys military type firearms, Mausers etc., and
    “sporterizes” them for resale.

    The gunsmith is in the business of manufacturing firearms and should be licensed
    as a manufacturer.


    9. A gunsmith buys semiautomatic pistols or revolvers and modifies the
    slides to accept new Style f sights. The sights are not usually sold with
    these firearms and do not attach to the existing mounting openings.
    The gunsmith offers these firearms for sale.

    This would be considered the manufacturing of firearms and the gunsmith should
    be licensed as a manufacturer.


    10. A gunsmith buys government model pistols and installs “drop-in” precision
    trigger parts or other “drop-in parts” for the purpose of resale.

    This would be considered the manufacturing of firearms, as the gunsmith is
    purchasing the firearms, modifying the firearms and selling them. The gunsmith
    should be licensed as a manufacturer.


    11. A gunsmith buys surplus military rifles, bends the bolts to accept a
    scope, and then drills the receivers for a scope base. The gunsmith
    offers these firearms for sale.

    This would be considered the manufacturing of firearms and the gunsmith should
    be licensed as a manufacturer.


    12. A gunsmith buys surplus military rifles or pistols and removes the stocks,
    adds new stocks or pistol grips, cleans the firearms, then sends the firearms
    to a separate contractor for bluing. These firearms are then sold to the
    public.

    This would be considered manufacturing of firearms and the gunsmith should be
    licensed as a manufacturer.


    13. A company purchases surplus firearms, cleans the firearms then offers them
    for sale to the public.

    The company does not need to be licensed as a manufacturer.

    I have researched all the BATFE Regs and there it only relates to Finishing a 100 % receiver or assembling a complete weapon for re sale
    See #1 and # 7...in # 1 the operative sentence is "performing operations which create firearms or alter firearms (in the
    case of alterations, the work is not being performed at the request of customers,
    rather the person who is altering the firearms is purchasing them, making the
    changes, and then reselling them), .....
    I have worked in Both Job Machine shops and for Class 2 Manufacturers and Never had a problem with BATFE in regards to Minor Machine work or welding parts in for a CUSTOMER...There is No Law saying I can't Weld the Rails in a Reciever For a customer that is building his own Gun...There is NO law saying I can't drill holes or Machine slots for a customer...
    There is Nothing in the PDF files rules either that you attached about "soliciting Help"....
  17. Irishman

    Irishman Suspended

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    If you weld in the rails for an individual YOU now become the manufacturer. If you are not licensed as a manufacturer this is illegal.


    Irish
  18. Mooseman684

    Mooseman684 G&G Newbie

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    Irish,
    You are wrong ! Again I will quote from BATFE..."a person should obtain a license as a manufacturer of firearms if the
    person is:

    1. performing operations which create firearms or alter firearms (in the
    case of alterations, the work is not being performed at the request of customers,
    rather the person who is altering the firearms is purchasing them, making the
    changes, and then reselling them), 2. is performing the operations as a regular
    course of business or trade, and 3. is performing the operations for the purpose of sale or distribution of the firearms.

    So a License is NOT needed when performing work at the request of a Customer !!!:hitwithrock:
  19. Irishman

    Irishman Suspended

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