Information on Belgian Rifle

Discussion in 'The Powder Keg' started by Dakoma, Nov 29, 2009.

  1. Dakoma

    Dakoma G&G Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,445
    Location:
    Southeast Tennessee
    The bore slugs at .345 and is in verry good condition,it is made in Belgium and rimfire,other than a few dings from use in the stock it is verry good mechanically and lockup is tight,markings on the hammer and a K stamped under the barrel ,blueing is about 80 % and sighns of color casehardening behind the pivoting breech.Thought it was a 9mm rimfire shotgun until I started cleaning the bore,bore is a little dark but rifleing is not pitted and verry sharp.Here are a few pics.Would not be afraid to shoot if I could find ammo,Fiocci still makes the 9mm rimfire shot shells but dont know about single ball loads or bullet loads.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 29, 2009
  2. Mooseman684

    Mooseman684 G&G Newbie

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2005
    Messages:
    17,238
    That looks like a Belgian "Flobert" rifle...and possibly chambered in 9 mm Long rimfire..They were made also in .32 rimfire short and Long , and various .22 cals.
    Rich
  3. Dakoma

    Dakoma G&G Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,445
    Location:
    Southeast Tennessee
    You are corect,it is the long action desighned by Henri Pieper and I am sure it was a blackpowder rifle and .345 at the muzzle would be around 9mm,some were centerfire.The action is simple kind of like a trapdoor and the 2 pivot screws do not take all the presure the way it locks up.Any real colector value?Would like to turn it to centerfire load with blackpowder and form brass to shoot it with cast bullets.Thought it was a 9mm shotgun untill I cleaned the bore and found verry good rifleing.Fiocchi sells 9mm shotshells in rimfire but dont know about bullet or ball.
  4. Mooseman684

    Mooseman684 G&G Newbie

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2005
    Messages:
    17,238
    I would Not change it to anything...Leave it as is as it is gaining collectability... Look around and you may find ammo somewhere...
    Rich
  5. Dakoma

    Dakoma G&G Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,445
    Location:
    Southeast Tennessee
    Probally right,would stand a better chance finding or building another breechblock in centerfire so as not to alter anything and form brass,size bullets to shoot it.Rifleing is so good with no pits and the lands are nice and square,would be fun to shoot.Ammo if made would be costly,probally more than what I gave for the rifle.Cartridges would look like a giant 22 LR.Bought a 9mm Boltaction it has not came yet it is a Voere singleshot with a engraved spoon bolt handle that is turned down and ammo on the way,guess I will play with it instead,sure would like to shoot the rifle though.Thanks
  6. Big Dog

    Big Dog Dinosaur Wrangler Forum Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2002
    Messages:
    21,038
    Location:
    North Florida - the Gunshine State!
    You can sometimes find these old Belgian 9mm shotguns on the gun auction and sales sites - GunsAmerica is a good one, as they post the actual price instead of bidding. It would give you an idea of current market values. As to true 'collector value', you'd need to go to a firearm expert on these particular guns. Most Americans have never heard of them.
  7. Capt'n Mil Coll

    Capt'n Mil Coll G&G Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2008
    Messages:
    6,751
    Location:
    Right behind you. -NRA Member-
    Fiocchi 9mm Flobert Rimfire Shotshells

    Item #
    Description
    Bullet
    Cost
    20000Fiocchi 9mm Flobert Rimfire Shotshells
    Box of 50 Shot size 7.5
    $23.20​
    [​IMG]
    20000BFiocchi 9mm Flobert Rimfire Shotshells
    Brick of 250 Shot size 7.5
    $113.75​
    [​IMG]
    20002Fiocchi 9mm Flobert Rimfire Shotshells
    Box of 50 Shot size 8
    $23.20​
    [​IMG]
    20002BFiocchi 9mm Flobert Rimfire Shotshells
    Brick of 250 Shot size 8
    $113.75​
    [​IMG]
    20003Fiocchi 9mm Flobert Rimfire Shotshells
    Box of 50 Shot size 9
    $23.20​
    [​IMG]
    20003BFiocchi 9mm Flobert Rimfire Shotshells
    Brick of 250 Shot size 9
    $113.75​
    [​IMG]


    Fiocchi 9mm Flobert Rimfire Shotshell

    Just google it. Lots of places have them.
  8. Mooseman684

    Mooseman684 G&G Newbie

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2005
    Messages:
    17,238
    Unfortunately... His Is NOT a shotgun...
    But , I bet he could buy some and dump the shot...weigh it and use a bullet the same weight as the shot sized to about .346 and safely shoot it !
    He might have to cut the length down to proper and push a lubed lead bullet in down to the black powder.
    I do that with my .577 British Snider using 28 ga. shotshells cut to length and reloaded with BP and a .577 slug...
    Works great !
    MVC-003S.JPG
    Rich
  9. Dakoma

    Dakoma G&G Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,445
    Location:
    Southeast Tennessee
    Thank you might work out something with the shotshells when the get here and replace with a bullet ,I have not found bullet weights for this rifle yet,bullets would have to be of the heeled type like the 22 rimfire bullets and outside lubed,they would to my understanding be the same size as the brass to fit proper.I will find out more when I get the shotshells if they will fit proper and accept a bullet for a conversion.There is little info on the web about these rifles and there were many unknown makers,unknown makers who made them would not be worth as much as ones that are known.Only markings are on the hammer and a k stamp under the wood on the barrel which tell me little.Guess for now it will hang next to my Swiss Vettereli that is a 1878 model and a rimfire also,would be good if someone would make ammo for these rifles that is not so expensive they would be fun to shoot and I hate wall hangers.
  10. Mooseman684

    Mooseman684 G&G Newbie

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2005
    Messages:
    17,238
    Since it is Black powder...You can use round balls and Patch them as well or use a lubed Bullet patched as well as long as it fits snug in the case and sits right on the powder or wad in the case of a shotshell...a plastic shotshell Cup will also act like a sabot for say a 32 cal 95 grain or 98 grain cast bullet that measures .312...314...or a round ball at .330 and patched...
    Rich
  11. Dakoma

    Dakoma G&G Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,445
    Location:
    Southeast Tennessee
    Exelent idea,I have found info about roundballs that were original loads and some shot bullets,but the patch or sabot should work,I will know more when ammo gets here may be able to dump shot and replace with a bullet.Thanks
  12. rdale501

    rdale501 G&G Newbie

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2007
    Messages:
    535
    Location:
    oregon
    My brother has one which belonged to our dads grandfather. It is a .32 rim fire. We found ammo for it at a gun show about ten years ago. From what I understand, my great grandfather was quite a hunter and killed many deer with this gun. It shoots both .32 long and shorts. The ammo we found was made in Canada. Someone told me the gun was more popular there, and that one gun manufacturer offered the round in a lever action rifle. I don't know if this is true, only repeating what I was told.
  13. Dakoma

    Dakoma G&G Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,445
    Location:
    Southeast Tennessee
    Saw one sell online with a parcial box of 32 long Canuk or somthing like that ammo,a repeater would be nice.Finding ammo would be nicer,once fired since they are rimfire then they might make bullet jackets like some make 22LR empties into bullets.Would have been nice to have been centerfire,could form some brass and then reload.It is light and short and could be carried all day without getting tired.
  14. Musket

    Musket G&G Newbie

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2009
    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    Hello Dakoma,
    I own the same rifle and these rifles were used in a fruitorchad to shoot the birds.
    You can use rimfire as well small shotguncartridge.
    If you like I send you a few pictures of the ammu
    regards,
    Dirk ( info@antiquefirearms.nl )
  15. Musket

    Musket G&G Newbie

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2009
    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    Here is the ammo

    Hello Carl,
    Here they are.......
    Dirk

    Attached Files:

  16. Capt'n Mil Coll

    Capt'n Mil Coll G&G Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2008
    Messages:
    6,751
    Location:
    Right behind you. -NRA Member-
    Nice pics Dirk. Nice old rifles, shotguns and pistols too.
  17. Musket

    Musket G&G Newbie

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2009
    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    Thanks......
    If you want to see more........

    www.antiquefirearms.nl

    Dirk
  18. Capt'n Mil Coll

    Capt'n Mil Coll G&G Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2008
    Messages:
    6,751
    Location:
    Right behind you. -NRA Member-
    no wonder we cant find any of these old firearms....you've got em all.
  19. rimfirenut

    rimfirenut G&G Regular

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2009
    Messages:
    822
    Location:
    michigan
    That,s a nice lookin flobert, the action is called a "warrent action" and you are lucky to find any rifling in the barrel at all, most have been shot out and worth about nothing. I have a Belgium flobert in .22 flo. and it also has a good amount of rifling left but is not the most accurate bugger..More like something to mess with or as conversation piece. The problem was the steel used is of a "soft" quality and is easily shot out due to mostly the black powder shells.
    Keep her original and it will be worth more, especialy to the right collecter, I sold 1 on gunbroker in .22 flobert in 85% condition and it brought $375......
  20. Dakoma

    Dakoma G&G Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,445
    Location:
    Southeast Tennessee
    You have a verry nice collection,the ammo pics show some what look like the old 22 BB caps and then there is one that has a pointed bullet all set in a verry short brass case however there were longer cases made with multiball and ball or bullet all considerably longer.The triggerguard is diferent on mine it is longer and extends further back the dark background of my rifle rack kind of hides it(not the best pics),would have taken it outside for better pics but it was raining.Cartridges of the World shows a few pictures but also gives rim,shoulder ball or bullet size and length of loaded cartridge.My bore closely matches the bore of the 35 Allen but the bore and bullets run all over the map so to speak.Thank you for the pics.What was the larger paper shotshell it looked verry old.
Similar Threads
Forum Title Date
The Powder Keg Absorbing information by Osmosis Mar 30, 2014
The Powder Keg New Information Came My Way Mar 24, 2014
The Powder Keg Information on Thomas Jefferson !!! Feb 26, 2014
The Powder Keg Just For Your Information Jan 31, 2014
The Powder Keg Tying it all together? Or just coincidental information? Jun 9, 2013