New gun purchase - Denied - Why??!

Discussion in 'The Powder Keg' started by HogWildMike, Jan 23, 2013.

  1. HogWildMike

    HogWildMike G&G Newbie

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    Hey everyone,


    My names Mike, nice to meet all of you. Love the forums so far, seem to have some very civil/nice/knowledgeable people around here, which is great!


    I was just wondering if someone could chime in and maybe give me some idea of why I was denied the purchase of my new Kahr CW .40 Caliber pistol?

    Let start off by explaining a few things first. This was my first attempt to buy a gun for myself.. because all my other guns have been handed down to me from my father. I got to talking to my father about getting my 'Concealed Weapon Permit' so that I could carry a concealed firearm. The main reason I really started to considering getting one, was because of all the recent mass shootings. I mean, people are going crazy and flipping out! I mean, its like these days we can't even go to the movies/grocery store or send our children to school without having to worry about some mentally ill piece of crap walking in and just shooting random innocent people!! That's the MAIN reason why I have now considered getting my CWP. Also, I have a few friends that have gotten their CWP's and they feel a lot safer now.

    Anyhow, I got to talking with my father about taking the CWP class and then applying to get the actual permit. He suggested that we attempt to purchase a firearm first, to make sure that I could do that before we spent the money on the class and the permit, which IMO, was a great idea. Well, I found out last night, that my father had got a call from the dealer we purchased the firearm from.. only to be told by my father over the phone, that I had been denied. I'm more worried than mad because I have a unique last name.. and there are less than a handful of people that have my last name. As for any priors? Nope.. I don't have any priors other than a misdemeanor from 4-plus years ago.

    Heck, my father.. who is a well respected/known/loved judge here in town... he himself got turned down to purchase a firearm about 6 months or so ago.. and he's got an absolutely perfect record! I even heard about a police officer that recently got denied his new gun purchase!! I mean, really?? But yeah, with my father being a judge (now retired) for over 30 years.. he definitely knows the laws here in Arkansas, so we're both just completely amazed that I was denied approval for the new gun purchase.

    Anyway, my father and I are completely dumbfounded by the recent denial for my new gun purchase, absolutely dumbfounded. My father and I both think that the FBI made a mistake somewhere with my information because I have absolutely NO felonies, never been charged/convicted of a violent crime, I've never been voluntarily/involuntarily sent to a mental hospital.. absolutely nothing.

    We think that one of the very few people that happen to have the same last name as he and I have.. either one of them has the same first/middle name as I do; and or has a very similar social security number as I do.. and or whoever they have me confused with, has priors that keep that person from legally purchasing a firearm. It's either that, or someone's stolen my social security number and has been using it. But, if someone had my ss # and had been using it for things, I should have known it by now, unless it was a fairly recent event.

    Either way, my father and I will definitely be appealing this and will be sending the NICS section of the FBI an appeals letter to see what the issue is. I sure hope nobody has stolen my identity/ss #. I mean, I hope for their sake that they haven't, to be polite about it. :)

    Has anyone else had this issue? I mean, knowing that you haven't anything on your record that would keep you from legally purchasing a new firearm.. but still getting denied? Has anyone else had to send an appeals letter to the FBI asking the reason why their purchase was denied? Any help with this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance to anyone who can help and or give advice.

    Thanks for your time,

    -Mike
  2. neophyte

    neophyte Wonderment :) Forum Contributor

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    Welcome

    HogWildMike: Sir, Welcome from NC

    Do follow up with this. Thanks
  3. Hawken.54

    Hawken.54 G&G Newbie

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    Having worked at a pawnshop that sold guns, I have seen some people denied for: bad guy having the same name...which you already pointed out....mistake on the background checkers part....mistake made during the filling out of the gun form.....going through a divorce can also do it in some states...
    Good luck witth the appeal. I hope it gets straightened out.
    Andy
  4. Paper

    Paper I can justify anything. Forum Contributor

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    I've been denied once. I was buying rifles at the CMP and got denied.. The lady tossed my SS# in with the mix and it went through.. I just bought a revolver on Monday and even without my SS# it went through immediately..

    My thought on this is that since you've never purchased a weapon before, you're not in the "system" as either a positive or a negative, so it denied you and is waiting for you to prove you're actually interested by trying again??

    Why mine was denied that one time was odd, since at that time I had both a Utah CCW permit (full FBI background check) and a Collector FFL-03 (same thing) and it still came back as denied.. Tried again in 30 minutes and it went through..

    If it were me, I'd try again.. If denied, I'd investigate to find out why.
  5. SPOCAHP ANAR

    SPOCAHP ANAR G&G Newbie

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    Last edited: Jan 23, 2013
  6. TNPIRATE

    TNPIRATE Landlubber Pirate Forum Contributor

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    Hog Wild, welcome. You said that you had a misdemeanor, now not to gettin in your business but what was that for? Were you arrested at the time? Did you have to go to court? If you were arrested does the paperwork say you were arrested on felony charges, and the courts dropped it to a misdemeanor charge?
    That is the way it was explained to me by the NCIS.

    So you have to go back to the county and courts where the arrest was, where the courts were and fight it there to start. You have to talk to the District Attorney and find out every bit of information they have on you. Then you have to find out if the offense can ban you from owning a gun.

    The next step is to get the charges expunged. This process takes the NCIS a good 6 months to a year to process. More like a year and a half. During this time if you want to purchase go ahead, then you take all the paperwork that the courts sent you back and fax or mail in a copy to NCIS. Then they will process that paperwork and should contact the FFL back stating the purchase is ok.

    I have been dealing with this for years. After all that I went through there are still times I have to send in all my paperwork to NCIS. Yes it gets to be a real fun PITA.

    So go back to the District Attorney and start there. They should be able to tell you if the charge was a firearm ban charge or not. If they say that there is no record on you then you have to track down as to why.

    But since you said that you had a misdemeanor I am guessing that is what you are going to have to deal with. When I had my little problem with an X crazy psycho b--ch from hell, and the time in courts and all, I was told that there was a 10 year gun ban on me. I waited and just in the middle of 2011 started the process. Took the courts/Judge 3 months to get paperwork signed, and filed with the DA and back to me. And now it is looking like the NCIS, and the FBI, and all them are finally getting it into the main system so I do not have mail or fax the copies that I have.
    Yes it is a pain and has been a pain.

    No I am not an attorney, and in no means is this any form of legal representation. Just someone who has dealt with this in the past.

    :swordfight:
  7. TNPIRATE

    TNPIRATE Landlubber Pirate Forum Contributor

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    The FBI and NICS never tell you anything over the phone. Everything is done in writing. Been there done that. No I did not want the t-shirt.

    :swordfight:
  8. GlockMeister

    GlockMeister G&G Enthusiast

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    I ran into a guy at a local dealer who was denied because he had a outstanding parking ticket/s.

    So, sometimes it can be something minor.
  9. jmp8927

    jmp8927 G&G Enthusiast

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    It could be the smallest detail. I have a friend who was denied because he wasn't thinking when he filled in the address and put his mailing address rather than physical address. It didn't match what the FBI had and he got denied.
  10. anykey

    anykey Suspended

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    How come computers never make really good mistakes?
  11. Jay

    Jay Old man, no tact... Staff Member Forum Contributor

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    ...because the folks that input the data to those computers never make "good" mistakes....

    Computers aren't "smart" .. they just work the data people give them really fast....
  12. TXplt

    TXplt Gun Toting Boeing Driver Forum Contributor

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    This is what I would do. Any of us are just guessing here so I'd go to the source.

    Although I've never had or seen this as happening, I DO know of friends during more detailed background investigations (clearance) having stuff on their records they knew nothing about. Most of these were cases of mistaken identity by some jurisdiction where they had never been--but all were let go without problem as such and the clearances went forward.

    I don't know the details of your misdemeanor so don't know if it would affect a NICS down the road--this is a better question for someone with legal knowledge of firearms law.

    SOMETIMES not putting an SSAN on the 4473 will allow mistaken identity with someone disqualified of a similar name and data and this is an easy fix if you don't mind putting your SSAN down.

    Once you get your CWP/CHL this should solve the situation because in most states this permit replaces the requirement for any NICS. They will do a background check as part of the CHL process which is good and if you have any glitches on your record you can find them there and fix them.

    As far as getting the gun I'd probably look toward a private sale (which in most states do not require any background check) at this point so you can at least be armed in the meantime. From your post I am assuming you are legally entitled to own a firearm. As far as I am concerned given the 2A "shall not be infringed" portion filling out a 4473 or a NICS has as much constitutional validity as registering to be a Catholic or Presbyterian (or getting a permit to write these very words on this site) so I don't have much use for them or much respect for the concept. Those with pens who write unconstitutional laws and those who pervert our constitution with activist interpretations of these illegitimate laws for their own warped vision of utopia (short circuiting the legitimate constitutional amendment process) have somehow convinced some of those with badges and guns to execute their orders and I can't do much about that--and simply have to deal with it at face value.
  13. cold queso

    cold queso G&G Regular

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    I find it odd that your judge father said, "let's go down and try and buy a gun" before you get your CCW. I suspect he knew you were a precluded individual.
  14. GlockMeister

    GlockMeister G&G Enthusiast

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    Yea, that caught my attention also. I just chose not to comment about it. Don't know why? lol I guess I just figured if it didn't register with the OP and get them to question it and his own judge of a father, why should I. lol
  15. ACfixer

    ACfixer Global Warming Enthusiast Forum Contributor

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    Elaborate in the misdemeanor. If it's for drugs or domestic violence you are a no-go.
  16. DaTeacha

    DaTeacha Things are not what they seem. Forum Contributor

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    I, too, am puzzled as to why your father would say something like that ^. Is he your biological father? Are you adopted from a different country or perhaps a naturalized citizen? If you weren't born here there could be records issues with your ID. If you were born at home rather than in a hospital, there could be some paperwork screwed up somewhere. You need to be old enough. A domestic violence charge can give you issues. A mistake in filling out the 4473 can give you issues. You need to have a permanent address, not a PO box or something that doesn't agree with your photo ID address that should be on the form. Your SS number might have been misread by the counter worker or mistyped by the NICS person, but that isn't even required on the form, just suggested. Your place of birth is requested. Did you accidentally put your place of residence instead? Basically the form is so they can affirm that you are who you say you are, are a legal U.S. citizen, and have no criminal record that precludes you owning a gun.

    Find out the reason for the denial, then fix it. Any US citizen of sufficient age and without a criminal record should be allowed to purchase. I have seen delays but no denials in my job at a gun counter in a local store.
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2013
  17. Stickman

    Stickman Less well known member Forum Contributor

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    Restraining order by ex wife or someone else? Happened to a friend of mine, order filed two years after divorce was final. Gets detained at US customs every time too.

    Buying the gun before the CCW does seem like putting the cart before the horse.
  18. Paper

    Paper I can justify anything. Forum Contributor

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    Not if you want to take the course with the weapon you're going to carry.. My Utah permit class included live fire.
  19. Stickman

    Stickman Less well known member Forum Contributor

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    I suppose that is true. In Washington state there is no course.
  20. cold queso

    cold queso G&G Regular

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    Let's see. Son was denied. Dad, the impeccable judge of 30 years, was denied. Son admits having inherited guns from Dad.

    It should be fun when the ATF knocks at his door.

    I'm going to start the popcorn and see if HogWildMike keeps us updated!
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