NRA's reply to NAGR's claims about H.R. 822

Discussion in 'The Powder Keg' started by GlockMeister, Oct 17, 2011.

  1. GlockMeister

    GlockMeister G&G Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2007
    Messages:
    16,473
    Location:
    Northern Illinois
    I figured I'd post a completely separate thread about this rather then add it to an ongoing one.

    What this is in regards to is H.R. 822. I contacted the NRA asking about the claims and concerns made by NAGR (National Association for Gun Rights) as well as the concerns of some if not many gun owners. With the main concern being the potential that this bill/law could end up doing more harm then good. That it could lead to more restrictions and registration.

    Well, I got a reply and below is that reply, copy and pasted from my email EXACTLY AS I RECEIVED IT.

    I leave it to you to decide what is what and who's telling the truth. I MYSELF? I NO LONGER TRUST ANY OF THEM TO BE QUITE HONEST WITH YOU!
    Oh, and by the way, if anyone sees and or read something you don't understand or agree with or believe, please, for ALL GUN OWNERS CONCERNED, STATE IT HERE IN A POST AND THEN PLEASE CONTACT BOTH THE NRA AND NAGR AND ASK FOR CLARIFICATION OR AN ANSWER TO WHATEVER THAT MAY BE.


    Thank you for contacting NRA-ILA regarding H.R. 822, the National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act of 2011. Introduced earlier this year by Congressmen Cliff Stearns (R-Fla.) and Heath Shuler (D-N.C.), this vital legislation will enable millions of permit holders to exercise their right to self-defense while traveling outside their home states.

    There is now only one state (Illinois) that has no clear legal way for individuals to carry concealed firearms for self-defense. Forty states have permit systems that make it possible for any law-abiding person to obtain a permit, while most of the others have discretionary permit systems. (Vermont has never required a permit.)

    H.R. 822 would make a major step forward for gun owners' rights by significantly expanding where those permits are recognized.

    Dozens of states have passed Right-to-Carry laws over the past 25 years because the right to self-defense does not end when one leaves home. However, interstate recognition of those permits is not uniform and creates great confusion and potential problems for travelers. While many states have broad reciprocity, others have very restrictive reciprocity laws. Still others deny recognition completely.

    H.R. 822 would solve this problem by requiring that lawfully issued carry permits be recognized, while protecting the ability of the various states to determine the areas where carrying is prohibited within their boundaries. The bill would not create a federal licensing system; rather, it would require the states to recognize each others' carry permits, just as they recognize driver's licenses and carry permits held by armored car guards.

    Unfortunately, but not unexpectedly, H.R. 822 is now being attacked by a few self-proclaimed "gun rights" supporters with no active lobbying presence in any legislature, whose real agendas have little to do with promoting the interests of gun owners.

    In regards to the group sending out these emails, we have looked into NAGR and found that they are not registered as federal lobbyists with the U.S. Congress, nor are they registered as lobbyists in the state of Virginia, where they are located.

    We are unaware of any lobbying efforts on the part of NAGR to work directly with legislators to influence legislation either in the states or at the federal level.

    NRA makes no judgment on the "legitimacy" of NAGR, but we can assure you that NAGR is not in any way affiliated with NRA, nor does it work in conjunction with NRA.

    Here are the facts about a few of their claims:

    Myth: H.R. 822 would involve the federal bureaucracy in setting standards for carry permits, resulting in "need" requirements, higher fees, waiting periods, national gun owner registration, or worse.

    Fact: H.R. 822 doesn't require-or even authorize-any such action by any federal agency. In fact, since it would amend the Gun Control Act, it would fall under a limitation within that law that authorizes "only such rules and regulations as are necessary to carry out" the GCA's provisions. No federal rules or regulations would be needed to implement H.R. 822, which simply overrides certain state laws.

    Myth: H.R. 822 would destroy permitless carry systems such as those in Arizona, Alaska, Vermont and Wyoming.

    Fact: H.R. 822 would have absolutely no effect on how the permitless carry states' laws work within those states. For residents of Arizona, Alaska and Wyoming, where permits are not required but remain available under state law, H.R. 822 would make those permits valid in all states that issue permits to their own residents. Residents of Vermont, where no permits are issued or required, could obtain nonresident permits from other states to enjoy the benefits of H.R. 822.

    Myth: If H.R. 822 moved through the legislative process, it would be subject to anti-gun amendments.

    Truth: By this logic, neither the NRA nor any other pro-gun group should ever promote any pro-gun reform legislation. But inaction isn't an option for those of us who want to make positive changes for gun owners. Instead, we know that by careful vote counting and use of legislative procedure, anti-gun amendments can be avoided or defeated.

    Again, thank you for your inquiry and please do not hesitate to share any of your thoughts or concerns in the future.



    Sincerely,
    Kyle C
    NRA-ILA Grassroots Division
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2011
  2. shop tom

    shop tom G&G Enthusiast Forum Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2008
    Messages:
    4,855
    Location:
    Northeastern Lower Michigan
  3. TXplt

    TXplt Gun Toting Boeing Driver Forum Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2008
    Messages:
    11,261
    Location:
    Fort Worth, TX
    I remember there was a wolfs in sheep's clothing organization a few years ago which I think went bankrupt -- it had a pro-gun name (like american hunting and shooting organization) or something like that -- but was actually a horribly ANTI-GUN group pushing for "common-sense" "rational" gun control laws (we all know that the only "rational" gun control law is the 2nd Amendment). It was a group which was designed to fool people on the surface and to push its anti-gun agenda (and copper bullets advocated by supposed sportsmen, etc.). It was evident from the drivel that came out of this group its leaders knew nothing about guns, and probably had never fired a gun in their lives.

    I know nothing about the group you mention; good or bad. As for reciprocity we must ensure the final bill does NOT have anything about federal oversight or equivalent training, etc--that it ONLY says one state must recognize another's CHL period, dot.--in the same manner it recognizes a drivers' license--essentially giving it full faith and credit which really shouldn't be an issue because it is in the constitution already. PA licenses (which is shall issue and does NOT require training) must be recognized in NY and CA (irrespective of any requirements of training, tests, paperwork, or "may issue") as well as NV, etc.

    Buyer beware--if the group pushes to get rid of gun control laws (i.e. ROLL BACK laws and get gov't out of our lives) and expand constitutional carry EVERYWHERE it is likely OK--if it has a "yes, but" theme it is probably just another anti-gun group.
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2011
  4. GlockMeister

    GlockMeister G&G Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2007
    Messages:
    16,473
    Location:
    Northern Illinois
    Disregard the author thing. I thought you were talking about the author of the emails but you meant the author of the information at the links. Just a slight communication issue on my end is all. lmao

    In checking out the links, there was one thing said that I read that is EXACTLY what I thought of and felt concerning the emails from the NAGR and Dudley Brown. That being, FEAR MONGERING. And why I never sent a dime.

    Based on the NRA's reply and other things, such as the links you've provided, I see no reason to continue to get and will be unsubscribing from NAGR's emails.
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2011
  5. shop tom

    shop tom G&G Enthusiast Forum Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2008
    Messages:
    4,855
    Location:
    Northeastern Lower Michigan
    My take on the NAGR (I am or was member) is that it is big on rhetoric, but lacking in practical legal prowess.

    tom
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2011
  6. Rambo

    Rambo Your worst nightmare Forum Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    Messages:
    12,024
    Location:
    Out and about
    This is one of those slippery slopes people talk about. It appears this House Bill will take away a States right to enact/enforce their own laws. I understand the reciprocity agreements concerning CCW and realize it's part of our 2nd Ammendment rights but in a time where people are crying for less Federalism and more States rights, this bill seems to fly in the face of those sympathies. If we let the Federal Govt do this because it helps a cause that we favor, what's to stop someone else from doing the same thing for something we are repulsed by? Food for thought?
  7. Martin Rage

    Martin Rage G&G Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Messages:
    1,232
    Location:
    Florida
    The federal gov is there to make sure our constitutional rights ARE enforced
    I would assume everyone would want the feds to stop a state from making it illegal or taxing the hell out of printing newspapers or posting online.
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2011
  8. TXplt

    TXplt Gun Toting Boeing Driver Forum Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2008
    Messages:
    11,261
    Location:
    Fort Worth, TX
    The bill of rights is a limitation on government; not a granting of rights. It is not within the authority of a state (ANY state--or the government in any form) to propose restrictions which contraindicate these basic rights. In actuality, this has nothing to do with states rights; simply to reign in states who would choose to interfere with our basic 2nd Amendment rights and states which would selectively choose to recognise the "full faith and credit" clause of our U.S. Constitution. It is legislation essentially directing states like CA, IL, NJ to follow our constitution and recognize licenses issued in other states. It should not have to exist, but states have run roughshod over our constitution (as has the feds) because miscreants have exploited people who can't face their fears and run amok with pens writing bad laws.

    Admittedly the 14th Amendment was very poorly written (ALL legislation written in "crisis" mode or in the aftermath of a tragedy is ALWAYS done poorly--whether it be the 14th Amendment or so-called "patriot" act; we should NEVER pass laws in the aftermath of a tragic event until we've had a chance for rationality to kick back in). However, we ARE stuck with incorporation so the U.S. Constitution applies to the states as a limitation as well.

    This isn't favoring one cause or another; if the Federal government wants to say to EVERYONE we must follow the limited government mandates in our U.S. Constitution and decrease government involvement in everyone's lives this is EXACTLY what the founders intended--and the way our constitution is written.

    UNFORTUNATELY, exactly the OPPOSITE is happening in most cases.
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2011
  9. Rhody

    Rhody G&G Newbie

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2011
    Messages:
    77
    Location:
    Rhode Island
    This is the "out" that states like Illinois can use. Just prohibit carrying a firearm everywhere.



    R
  10. Seabeescotty

    Seabeescotty G&G Enthusiast Forum Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2007
    Messages:
    18,894
    Location:
    Jay, Oklahoma, God's country.
    After reading this, I feel another headache coming on! Why can't the idiots just give up, and leave our rights alone?!?!?!?!
  11. Deersniper

    Deersniper G&G Newbie

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2006
    Messages:
    10,770
    Location:
    Central Texas
    It takes away The States power to enforce their common laws and 'expands the registry'.
    That's all I had to hear. TPTB are trying to trap us animals into signing our own demise.
  12. GlockMeister

    GlockMeister G&G Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2007
    Messages:
    16,473
    Location:
    Northern Illinois
  13. ChaZam

    ChaZam G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2008
    Messages:
    14,443
    Location:
    North Texas
    The NRA has more clout than all the other activist gun groups combined probably. This is one issue though were I feel that they have come down on the wrong side. They have never come up with enough backbone to oppose the patriot act either.
  14. shop tom

    shop tom G&G Enthusiast Forum Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2008
    Messages:
    4,855
    Location:
    Northeastern Lower Michigan
    Oops. I'm a member of the GOA. I just get annoying emails from NAGR.

    tom
  15. stickhauler

    stickhauler G&G Newbie

    Joined:
    May 26, 2009
    Messages:
    122
    I believe the group you're talking about is/was The National Hunters And Shooters Association. It was started by a former head of Handgun Control (which morphed into the Brady Campaign). They endorsed Obama for President in 2008. That was the group anti-gunners mistakenly said was the NRA when they claimed the NRA endorsed Obama.
  16. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2007
    Messages:
    12,979
    Location:
    Wanette,OK
    The states should never be able to circumvent the Constitution. If they do, they should lose federal funding. State, county, or city laws that seriously impede ones ability to exercise their rights should be struck down by the high courts. This is the way things should work. Unfortunately, we have a Supreme Court, with a bunch of Liberals, who apparently think the Constitution should be rewritten, based on some of their opinions. In 2012, we need to take the bull by the horns and send a clear message to Washington that their "business as usual" approach to taxing and spending is going to come to an end! I propose a taxpayer revolt, and if that doesn't work, pull the congressmen and senators right out of their office and make them face a hostile crowd of the people that they are supposed to represent.
  17. Brandhard

    Brandhard G&G Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2005
    Messages:
    3,085
    Location:
    USA

    Why I don't support the reciprocity act.
  18. Huey Rider

    Huey Rider G&G Evangelist

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2009
    Messages:
    9,214
    Location:
    Great Lakes Region
Similar Threads
Forum Title Date
The Powder Keg NRA's Banned Guns raffle Sep 27, 2013
The Powder Keg NRA's Letter to Congress Feb 19, 2013
The Powder Keg NRA's Response to Obama Announcement on Gun Control Jan 16, 2013
The Powder Keg New video game takes head shots at NRA's LaPierre Jan 16, 2013
The Powder Keg NRA's Guns and Gold Dec 20, 2011