The Strasbourg Tests

Discussion in 'General Handgun' started by hswaters, May 23, 2012.

  1. hswaters

    hswaters G&G Regular

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    I have been reading an article about The Strasbourg Tests that tells about shooting goats to see how much stopping power various calibers of ammo might have. There seems to be some question about whether these tests ever happened and where they were performed if they did indeed happen. Anyone have any interesting information or opinion on this?
  2. Big Cholla

    Big Cholla G&G Newbie

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    Yes, the Strasbourg Tests actually took place. Many common handgun calibers and various design ammo were tested on fairly large goats under controlled and sort of scientific conditions. If I remember correctly the tests were done in France. They were looking for the fabled "one shot stop" in ammo and calibers. I seem to remember that the .357 Magnum and the .45 ACP were about the best calibers with the hotter loads in each being used. .......... Big Cholla
  3. rockman7

    rockman7 G&G Enthusiast

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    a good pdf file on the tests with results

    http://guninstructor.net/Strasborg_Tests.pdf

    it'd be nice to see someone update this with some of the new ammo coming out like the critical defence round,the .410 slug/buck round for the judge, ect.

    and possibly a look at home defence weapons like the shotgun/rifle and thier ammo
    Last edited: May 23, 2012
  4. hswaters

    hswaters G&G Regular

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    Thanks for the link and the information.
  5. Cyrano

    Cyrano Resident Curmudgeon Forum Contributor

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    If an update to the Strasbourg Tests ever happens, it won't take place here. Can you imagine the stink the PETA clowns, the Humane Society of the United States (both of which are rabidly anti-hunting and anti-gun), and the ASPCA would raise? Even in Europe, i think the animal rights activists would make major protests in the media. Most likely, if such tests ever are repeated, it will either be in Russia, or someplace in Africa where for a suitable bribe you can do anything.
  6. Cyrano

    Cyrano Resident Curmudgeon Forum Contributor

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    Apparently there is some question as to whether the Strasbourg Tests are real, or fiction. I haven't been able to turn up a pdf of the test paper online, but two very technical articles in Wikipedia concerning what happens when bullets impact the body and how tests for things like hydrostatic shock are run refer to them.

    Hydrostatic shock - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Handgun effectiveness - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    You won't find the reference in the body of the article, but it is there in the footnotes. The way the articles are written, and the degree to which the writer(s) documented his/their work, indicate to me that they had read the report. The article on hydrostatic shock also refers to experiments run using pigs and dogs, and on postmortem examination of the brains of Cape Buffalos dropped with single shots.

    Bottom line: I think the Strasbourg Tests did take place, but the results are technical and are not available to people outside the medical, military, firearms manufacturing and ammunition manufacturing industries.
  7. Big Cholla

    Big Cholla G&G Newbie

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    Cyrano: Round about '93 or '94 I attended a tactical shooting class for LEO Firearm Instructors at Cooper's Gunsight. The staff was all 'abuzz' about this test and Col. Cooper had an original copy of the test write up. We were offered a Xerox copy of it if we wished. I took one and read it from top to bottom. I have since passed it on to someone else or just misplaced it. I'm not medically trained so my opinion has no weight, but there were a couple of procedures that they standardized on that I thought were inappropriate. They shot each goat from a quartering rear to front shot. I would have thought that a direct frontal shot would have more translation to the human target it was supposed to represent. Also, each goat had been mildly tranquilized prior to being shot. I thought that could only compromise the results, but that was only my humble opinion. Col. Cooper was adamant that the test was in fact done in France, but there were several hints that a few three letter federal agencies were indirectly behind the test. ................ Big Cholla
    Last edited: May 24, 2012
  8. Cyrano

    Cyrano Resident Curmudgeon Forum Contributor

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    "Strasbourg" seems to be a code name, not the location of the tests. Or perhaps it is a mis-spelling of Strasburg, Pennsylvania. That is a town in Amish country, and it is not that far from either Pittsburgh or Philadelphia.

    There used to be the Frankford Arsenal just outside Philly, where a lot of smallarms R&D went on. If the researchers at Frankford were looking for a place where they could A) get goats for testing; and B) the people would not talk about anything they might see or might infer from the fact government agents were buying a bunch of goats, the though occurs to me that Strasburg Township fits the bill neatly.
  9. neophyte

    neophyte Wonderment :) Forum Contributor

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  10. rockman7

    rockman7 G&G Enthusiast

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    cholla... mho for the light tranquilization of the animal is because most game animals i know of thier nervous system behaves very different than ours. for example ...if you shoot a man directly in the heart with a 150 gr sst out of a 30-06 he will not be able to immediatly run 50-75 yds at a top speed. the shock to our nervous system would usually result in a bang flop.

    i figger the 1/4 shot was to give the best chance for the bullet to hit bone which they mentioned in the article was not always a 100% chance. not sure about a goat chest but if its like a deers ,for example, i would think its at least slighty stronger than a mans.

    i agree they would never be able to duplicate this here again.......stupid tree huggers!!!
    personally i think we should all become rich and meet somewhere like cancun or the virgin islands and perform our own tests :D
  11. Cyrano

    Cyrano Resident Curmudgeon Forum Contributor

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  12. azguy

    azguy G&G Newbie

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    A few years ago I came across the "Strousberg" test on the internet. It was done in the early 80's by NATO about the same time the U.S. adopted the Beretta 92 as it's standard issue sidearm, replacing the 1911. Aparently the data collected from thoes tests persuaded the DOD to go along with their delicate European allies and choosing the 9mm over the .45 ACP. If it was in fact real. No one knows for sure. I printed out a copy because it made a good refrence for caliber comparison.

    What I find interesting is that it was only a matter of seconds or fractions of seconds between the large rounds like the 45 ACP and the smaller rounds like the .380, or 32 ACP.

    The Strousberg tests are like the "MAGIC-12" documents for gun guys probibly a great topic for Brad Meltzer's decoded.
  13. The_Doctor

    The_Doctor G&G Regular

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