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0 tolerance issues

Discussion in 'The Powder Keg' started by Shaun, May 1, 2002.

  1. Shaun

    Shaun G&G Evangelist

    Okay guys is it just me or are they taking this PC/ 0 tolerance stuff too far. I can not believe they would suspend a couple of kids playing cops and robbers for pointing their fingers to simulate guns

    Kindergarten Suspension Suit Denied

    NEWARK, N.J. (AP) — A federal judge threw out a civil lawsuit filed by the parents of a kindergartner who was suspended for playing cops and
    robbers at school.

    Scot and Cassandra Garrick sued the Sayreville school district in June 2000 after their 6-year-old son and three classmates were disciplined for
    playing the game and pointing their fingers as guns.

    The couple claimed that the district and several educators had deprived the pupils of their constitutional rights to free speech, protection from cruel
    and excessive punishment, due process and access to public education.

    The Garricks were represented for free by The Rutherford Institute of Charlottesville, Va., a nonprofit group focused on First Amendment and
    religious freedom cases. The lawsuit did not specify the amount of damages sought.

    Steven H. Aden, the group's chief litigation counsel, said Tuesday that U.S. District Judge Katharine S. Hayden had dismissed the lawsuit.

    Hayden, who heard oral arguments in the case last week, found that school officials may restrict violent or disruptive games. Aden said the couple
    plans to appeal the ruling.

    ``They have the right to be children. The school and the courts shouldn't censor their play — it's politically incorrect,'' Aden told the Home News
    Tribune of East Brunswick for Wednesday's editions.

    School board members said they felt vindicated by the ruling.

    ``The court has affirmed what the board and district position has been all along, that we have the ability to make the decisions that are in the best
    interest of the children,'' Board of Education President Kevin Ciak said.

    School officials said the four boys were on the playground at Wilson School during recess on March 15, 2000, pretending their fingers were guns
    and saying, ``I want to shoot you.'' Some other pupils overheard the comments and reported them to a teacher.

    I think maybe we should have a little fun with this and start an e-mail campaign against the school board who does this stuff. I have participated in these campaigns in the past through the CCW website and we actually got the kids back in school. Last I heard fingers were harmless
  2. Calvin

    Calvin G&G Enthusiast

    It's a sorry day in America. If kids can't be kids, and can't be grown-ups, then where do they belong?

  3. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    In front of their televisions being inactive and listening to socialist propoganda.
  4. Klaus

    Klaus G&G Newbie

    Pointing fingers is violent and disruptive on a PLAYGROUND?????
    What was the judge smoking?
  5. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    The same stuff that was being sold behind the school unnoticed because the teachers were too busy dealing with those horribly violent students. I'm two years out of the public school system, where the miscreants had free reign.
  6. Shaun

    Shaun G&G Evangelist

    well think about it the public schools are dealing drugs now too its for the phony claim of ADHD (by the way there is no such thing). The drugs they are putting these kids on is the same as MethAmphetamine. What they claim is ADHD is a bored kid who isn't being challenged. When will common sense prevail?

    SPOCAHP ANAR G&G Enthusiast


    My son is diagnosed ADHD and is on medication. He had a difficult school year last year(kindergarten). He was put on medication this year and has become a much better student. He is very bright and reads on a higher level and loves math. The condition is what it says "Attention Deficit" or short attention span as we common folk call it. He, like myself, has a short attention span and has trouble focusing on things that does not interest him. I was on ritalin when I was a child but I was Hyper. I was use to throw fits and tantrums like you wouldn't believe.

    I was opposed to putting him on it. His curriculum is Montessori and is less demanding but more beneficial(if that makes any sense). I have seen a marked improvement in his schoolwork. I do agree that a lot of cases are misdiagnosed and do agree that the schools have no place diagnosing a student(doctor's job). But the situation does exist. It is not made up.

    SPOCAHP ANAR G&G Enthusiast

    Oh on the topic of 0 tolerance

    The school does have the right to expell kids for violent and disruptive behavior. Let's look at this more closely.

    Violent play= I think the word they should have used is inappropriate play. "Violent" indicates the kids were engaged in an activity that results in someone getting hurt or possibly getting hurt on purpose. Such would be the case of wrestling or play fighting. a boy and girl kissing each other like on tv would not be allowed and this being an example of inappropriate play.

    Disruptive Play I think speaks for itself. Any behavior that is disruptive to the class setting and thus the teacher's ability to lead either in or out of doors. I am not sure that this belongs in this category either. I understand the students were playing among themselves. If this is true then the behavior can hardly be called disruptive unless the were harassing other students.

    Now to the expulsion. Where the school has a right to expel kids for breaking the rules, it is generally understood that when dealing with elementary students they do not fully understand their actions and the consequences that go along with them. I oftem correct my son for things he says such as the "kill" word. I do not limit his roleplaying as I have bought him numerous toy guns. I had to recently discuss the meaning of GAY to my son. This was fun as he is 6 and I am not sure I did a good job either.

    The proper stance would have been to counsel the kids and send a note to the parents. Counsel them again with the parents for a second offense and finaly expulsion id the matter continued to be a problem after 3 or more times. The school **cked up. The over reacted and now are probably embarrased so they won't back down. I hope they get theirs in the end.

    I am going to write them and let them know of kids who bring a concealed weapons into the school.

    Yep I know this for a fact. On a cold day you will see kids with their hands in their pockets!

    SPOCAHP ANAR G&G Enthusiast

  10. Shaun

    Shaun G&G Evangelist

    Phacopsrana You might want to do some checking I heard a lot of bad things about those drugs this week and by the way now that your son has been on them and its in a file - he can never serve in the military

    SPOCAHP ANAR G&G Enthusiast

    Hmm Ritalin and Nukes

    Shaun I believe you are wrong. I was appointed a Missilier's slot in college and I took ritalin when I was his age. I am sure the military would not let me play with their nukes if they thought it to be a problem.

    BTW Shaun do you have any children. (I am not being sarcastic- just curious)
  12. Shaun

    Shaun G&G Evangelist

    No Not yet but due to the fact I have a huge experience with Narcotics and their effect on people and I research the simplest prescription I wouldn't get close to them or wish them on another person. No flames here just my thoughts and opinions on what I have learned over the past few years about this stuff.

    As to the Military I know several recruiters Marine, Navy and Army and they confirmed that the ritilan is an automatic disqualifier. We were talking about the interview last night.
  13. Benny

    Benny G&G Newbie

    0 Tolerance makes 0 sense... It needs to stop otherwise kids aren't going to be able to be kids anymore. I can remember playing army in the back yard with all my friends. Did I grow up to be some crazy guy mowing down dozens of kids at school?? Of course not! Kids play... let them... don't destroy their childhood. But I know I'm preaching to the choir...

  14. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    I've actually been diagnosed with ADD (not ADHD... I just space out easily.) They tried to put me on drugs, I wouldn't let them. I'll take my 3.5 GPA, thank you (that was high school though. College isn't as spiffy.)
  15. Both of my ex step sons were on ritalin when they were in elementary school. One kid showed a huge improvement. He couldnt focus on anything for more than just a few seconds and he was very difficult to live with when he wasnt "drugged". You guys should see the nurses office at the schools at around lunch time when all the medicines are given out. It looks more like a pharmacy than a school. I dont think any kid should be given drugs because he doesnt fit the "norm". A lot of the discipline problems begin at home but there are cases where drugs really do help.

    SPOCAHP ANAR G&G Enthusiast

    God you should hear the stories I could tell. My wife told me this year he almost did not pass Kidergarten. I think that most of the problems could be helped with more one on one direction.

    No probshaun I wasn't trying to flame you and I know you weren't flaming me either. I just hope your kids don't have problems like these. It can be a real challenge for any parent.
  17. Oxford

    Oxford G&G Evangelist

    Required government programs

    Phacopsrana: I liked your suggestion for "progressive discipline". That makes a lot more sense than the overreaction that occured in Newark.

    There weren't many tricks that I missed seeing in the 38 yrs I spent as an educator in public schools. Serious crimes (ha) like hair too long on boys (hanging over the collar), cigarettes in your pocket...or even smoking, PDA, illegeal drug use, theft, fights, and on and on and on...

    Schools and parents used to cooperate together to enforce discipline whenever the student violated a rule.

    Then the federal government, through court rulings, got highly involved in requiring all sorts of programs, (of course without funding which resulted in elections for tax increases. That's another controversial subject for another thread).

    Some of the federal government requirements were good and some were terrible from my viewpoint.

    On the good side, a lot of students who previouly would not have been able to function "normally" without some of the required programs would have most likely dropped out of school. Some of these programs really helped a lot of students.

    Then again, the ACLU, in my opinion, really did a disservice to schools when they pushed for no prayers or religious activities in public schools, and other rulings. These activities still go on but under wraps of "a minute of silence" and other methods.

    On the bad side, the EPA rulings on asbestos abatement in public buildings was a farce. Because of the asbestos scare, we were actually required to spend millions of dollars in my district removing perfectly good roofs, boiler insulation, wall insulation, and many other building parts which threatened no one.

    Bottom line...the politicians keep muddling with new laws, requirements and programs supposedly to keep us in line with the constitution. Many times that's really questionable.

    Sorry about venting out a little but this subject gets me really stirred up.

    Last edited: May 1, 2002

    SPOCAHP ANAR G&G Enthusiast

    aclu has done alot of bad things in this country

    Prayer in schools the only reason people are for prayer in school is to make other people to pray. most likely people who push for this their kids don't sit around in a cirlcle praying in school either. Am I opposed to this? NO I think if ya want to pray then you should pray. end of subject.

    The constitution states that the government cannot endorse any one religion. It says nothing about praying in school or in gov offices. Would any of you people be happy if a wiccan wanted to teach your kids about her faith? I'd have her effin job.

    This separation of chuch/state is not what the constitution says. If this was the case there would be no god on the dollar and they would'nt pray in congress. I seriously thought about filing a suit with the ACLU to get the Christmans tree removed from the white house grounds the other year(Clinton) to prove a point about this ruling. They'd have to file it. I mean the white house is public land. If my son can't have one in his class, why should the president have one at his office?

    Decided not to go this route bc I did not want to be called the Grinch LOL

    The aclu does some good but a lot of it is crap. I mean anyone the Clintons support can't be good!