Discussion in 'General Handgun' started by Sober, Sep 19, 2010.

  1. Sober

    Sober G&G Newbie

    Ok guys,

    In earlier theads Ive asked about what handgun I should get. Now I have pretty much settled on .40S&W Because of recoil,capacity,stopping power.....but what i would like to know is....is this info acccurate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10mm according to this the 10mm is WAY more powerful than a .45acp or .40s&w I mean according to these numbers a 165 gr travels at 1425 ft/s and 744 ft/lbs I find this very hard to believe because the .40s&w 165 gr only travels 1150 ft/s and 484 ft/lbs and the .45 acp 165gr travels at 1060 ft/s and 412 ft/lbs... I'm a little shocked at these numbers because from 150gr to 200gr the 10mm results are pretty much the same.....I ask again is this info accurate??
  2. samuel

    samuel G&G Newbie


  3. DaTeacha

    DaTeacha Things are not what they seem. Forum Contributor

    The hottest loads listed in the Sierra manual for the 10 show 1200 fps with the 165 grain JHP and 1100 fps with the 180 grainer. For the .40, it's 1150 and 1100, respectively.

    Why trust Wiki when a good reloading manual is available?

    You can check Hodgdons website for their data, too.

    Generally, the 10 did not win favor because the duty guns chambered for it were the same size as those for the .45 ACP, so people saw no reason to not carry the big guy. The .40 has a little less recoil but not much less impact than the 10 and can work in a smaller weapon.

    Modern gun design has more or less put the size thing on the trailer, but the die has been cast and the 10 is kind of doomed to handgun limbo forever.
  4. SwedeSteve

    SwedeSteve Freedom Zealot Forum Contributor

    Where the "Centimeter" shines over the "Centimeter Kurz" is when reloading. You can reach 41 Mag levels and really heat things up. I wouldn't recommend a steady diet of these, but it shows what the cartridge has all over the.45 and .40 S&W. Now this may not be what you are looking for in a handgun. This is the reason why we have so many cartridges, because not everybody wants the same thing !!
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2010
  5. Midas

    Midas Chief Troll B' Gone Forum Contributor

    That info is truthful, the 10mm is a hot little number, I shoot 180 grain Gold Dots out of my Glock 20 right in the 1250-1300 fps range, and 200 grain Hornady XTP's at nearly 1200 fps, which is about the same as a stout .357 Mag load, only in the 10mm you get a magazine of 15 rounds, instead of 6 or 7 in the cylinder revolver.

    Also, since the 10mm is running at higher velocities, it will penetrate much better than the .40 or .45, which could come in handy when you need to reach the vitals of your adversary from an odd angle, or through heavy clothing.
  6. Pothole

    Pothole G&G Regular

    I'll take the 10mm over the 40 short and wimpy any day of the week, but I agree it is a bit of an odd ball round, and not as popular as it should be
  7. samuel

    samuel G&G Newbie

    TEACH:I didn't say trust anyone or sh*t!I only said it was as good a system as I have found.Further,you aren't trusting "WIKI" for sh*t.You are either trusting or analising what info was posted and presented in "WIKI".Further,where is any Formula/analisis posted in any load book that even remotely pertains to KO or knockout power?The only thing posted in a load book is total energy created by a motivating object,absolutely no formula/analisis of how much of that energy can be released to sustain vital/nerve damage necessary to stop a living subsrtance.Only a small percentage of total energy is released.I find an article formulated by a big game hunter much,much smarter than I will ever be to help someone and along comes someone telling that person that this knowledgible,experienced hunter knows nothing and all they need is a load book and everything will be great.If the man understood the load book,why was he asking about it?DO YOU HAVE A BETTER SYSTEM TO ANALISE KO?I would be very intrested in it.Many cartridge MFG,rs use the Taylor KO system.In the forth edition "AMMO&BALLISTICS it is used all the way through.They may be all wrong too,but their ballistics figures check out with any other ballistics charts or calculators I have found.Irealise you know I am all wrong.Please you and others post proof that I am wrong along with the statement that I am.Ah,to he*l with it.It will never end.
  8. SwedeSteve

    SwedeSteve Freedom Zealot Forum Contributor

    Teach- the .40 loses 5 KO points to my 10mm. That is a huge difference !!
  9. Palladin8

    Palladin8 G&G Evangelist

    The 10mm happens to be my favorite auto pistol cartridge. But in factory ammo it is weak and downloaded to just above .40S&W for most of manufactures. Double tap, buffalo bore, and a few other smaller manufacturers load it to where it was designed. For someone who does not reload this would not be a good idea unless you had lots of money to buy ammo and didn't mind ordering it online. Not many stores carry it and when they do it might be one or two boxes.
    Now if you are a reloader than this pistol is a dream to have. It will out perform the .40, .45, 9mm, or most any other auto pistol caliber.
  10. chesterwin

    chesterwin G&G Evangelist

    I love the 10 mm. When time allows, I'll be working up a load using ranier ballistics copper washed 180 grain flatpoints. Unless you reload or order online. Finding ammo can be a problem. The 10mm is to the .40 about what the 9mm is to the .380, and then some!
  11. TACAV

    TACAV G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

    I like the 10mms ballistics when its loaded to its full potential.

    I dont like its snappy recoil, its expensive price (I dont reload), that its harder to find or the fact that just like .40SW, and .357 Sig it wears your gun out faster.

    Most of that equates to me not being able to train nearly as much as with a more commonly found/less expensive round.
  12. stinkybriches

    stinkybriches G&G Enthusiast

    im a .45 guy. that said the 10mm is sweet.
  13. DaTeacha

    DaTeacha Things are not what they seem. Forum Contributor

    I thought this might warm up a bit. When you guys load the 10, do you go beyond the manuals, then?? It seems there isn't a whole lot of difference in the Sierra numbers.
  14. john2393

    john2393 G&G Newbie

    +1. I've owned 1911s. Chambered in both. There was a good handgunner article about the 10mm makin a comeback about 6 mo ago. It kinda dispelled the myth that "all 10mm is equal to .41 mag" in SOME loads especially experimental loads it reached .41 mag velocities. But it is more in the .357 mag ballistics range, which ain't no whimpy ballpark.

    The more modern ones get up around 1200-1500 fps I guess. Its a good round, but if you go with a 1911 setup ( delta elite, etc...) I will tell you this... HOLD ON TO THAT BAD BOY. THINK .357, .44 MAGNUM, NOT 9MM, .45. It feeds fine thru a 1911 but it does kick. And it will stovepipe if you shiela wrist it.

    I'm a .44 mag guy and a .45 guy so the 10mm is good to me. And I DID meet a guy who had a Smith & Wesson 10mm (the full metal model like the .45s in "training day") and HE SAID he fed .40s thru his. I wouldn't tell you it DEFINITELY will, and I NEVER tried it with my Delta Elite, but that's what I was told. Witness makes a nice all metal one too. Maybe it'll feed .40s? I never reccomend wrong rounds for guns, that's why I like revolvers. .44 spl- .45acp power, .44 mag blow a hole thru an engine. Whichever you want. But don't fear the 10mm. Just don't go expecting it to take C-117s out of the sky.
  15. john2393

    john2393 G&G Newbie


    Wikipedia? They get info from god only knows where. Its a good place to start, maybe get some leads in the right direction for info, but I wouldn't go 100% off of ballistic info from there. Most ammo companies post their own info.

    No point in gettin hostile about it tho fellas. Don't argue about info sources, all of you steady threaders here have good info. I hate seeing you guys snap at each other.

    10mm is a unique animal. The pressures alone produced from ignition of the round are2 -3x higher than .45s,9mm etc.... they're famous for 3 things 1) over-penetration,2) Agents not being able to qualify with them, and 3) cracking 1911 frames.

    But I'm sure there's info about 9mm that can outperform a .45? But I won't carry one for a PPW. I also drive a Ford. A lot of Chevy guys can argue that too.
  16. Dutch

    Dutch G&G Evangelist


    It depends what loading manual you use. I never (so far) go beyond what Ken Waters says is max.
  17. DaTeacha

    DaTeacha Things are not what they seem. Forum Contributor

    Sam, I know the times don't bear this out, but consider that my internet has been more sporadic than usual lately, probably due to the tornado that blew through the area late last week and prolonged power outages. At any rate, when I was typing my first post, there had been no reply to the original. I was not contesting your KO numbers, but the WIKI information in the first post, which did not jibe with what the Sierra manual was telling me - there are relatively small differences in velocity with the same bullets between the 10 and the .40.
  18. samuel

    samuel G&G Newbie

    ^ Just a thought Teach.Even "relatively small differences" make a "BIG" difference when dealing with the anemics of what they classify as "SELF DEFENCE" rounds.Thanks for the explanation.I thought you meant my post and it irritated me because I,even tho I am lousy on a computer,spend time and effort to get good solid info out to members.The way it sounded you thought my info was a waste.The truth is,for years everyone has said Ft Lbs were the very worst way to judge the terminal ballistics of a bullet.I agree as it varies so much depending on velocity at different ranges and basically bullet design.No one bullet covers all situations.But one bullet can cover a lot if you understand it,s range/power factors.Again,thanks for explaining.
  19. Sober

    Sober G&G Newbie

    Thanks for the feedback everybody. It was VERY confusing when I saw that the first time but after reading you guy's posts it a little clearer. Either way Im goin with the .40 S&W cause its the perfect combination for me but seeing that 10mm tempted me but for all practical purposes I think the .40s&w suits all my needs. Thank again guys I value the information I get here.
  20. samuel

    samuel G&G Newbie

    ^ In my experience the .40 S&W is a fine shooting SD weapon and from people that I have talked to,very good as a fight stopper.I believe you will be pleased.