30-06 or 358 Win

Discussion in 'General Rifle' started by fggrub, Apr 14, 2011.

  1. fggrub

    fggrub G&G Newbie

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    I currently have a Winchester Pre64 in 30-06, which has mostly been used on Deer. Thinking about taking a trip out west to go for Elk. Some of my friends have told me that I should get something a little heavier than the 30-06. Also, looking to go for Moose in Maine or Canada next year. Checking the ballistics on the 180gr 30-06 and the 250gr 358 Win, it seems that the 30-06 packs more energy than the 358 Win - surprised me! Am I looking at this totally wrong?
    Would appreciate some feedback.


     
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  2. 9mmXDm

    9mmXDm Suspended

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    Hasn't the 30 06 taken all North American game?
     
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  3. nathangdad

    nathangdad G&G Newbie

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    Well,

    the thirty ought six for over one hundred years has successfully taken all North American game. It comes factory loaded in some very heavy and designed for big game bullets.

    The 358 actually has an ought six counterpart in the .35 Whelen.

    Another very, very successful ought six varient is the .338/06 long a favorite of the custom barrel crowd/handloading fans.

    Personally, I feel the thirty ought six has much to offer over the .358 Winchester round. I would prefer it in the field for any game.

    Best wishes.
     
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  4. texnmidwest

    texnmidwest Sir Loin of Beef Forum Contributor

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    Well, my first question to you....are you wanting us to give you an excuse to buy a new rifle or are you really wondering if the -06 is enough gun for the lower 48?

    If you are wanting a good excuse....I would step up to the 300 win mag. That would allow you to take any game on this continent and the ammo would still be easily found and less expensive.

    If you are wondering if the -06 is enough gun....remember, the Europeans us 6.5x55 for Moose and a lot of elk and moose have fallen to the 270 and 30-06.

    Hope this helps.

    Tex
     
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  5. 338RUM

    338RUM G&G Evangelist

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    if I were you I would compare the 35 Whelen to the 30-06 and then compare the 358 Win to the 308 for an apples to apples comparison. If it were me I would go with the 35 Whelen over the 30-06, but I like heavy and slow bullets as compared to the lighter and faster crowd. Now I may revert my statement if you are shooting over 200 yards as the smaller caliber 30-06 will pull ahead of the larger 35 Whelen in velocity and energy.
     
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  6. Mooseman684

    Mooseman684 G&G Newbie

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    I too was sold on 30/06 and used it for deer and hogs . Then I moved to Alaska and after some hunts and seeing the difference a Magnum makes as far as a fast kill on Moose, Bear, Buffalo , etc. I went to The .300 Win mag because of its lighter recoil than the .338 and 375 H&H ,It's flat trajectory for long shots, and there were many more Bullets and designs and weights available for loading my own shells, and it had a much better 1 shot kill rate than what I saw with the 7mm Mag.... I wanted a .300 H&H Magnum pre-64 Winchester , but never found one I could make a deal on until recently and I will be using that for my hunting in the near future. Ballistics are just slightly less than the Win Mag. but still just as deadly...
     
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  7. samuel

    samuel G&G Newbie

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    .30-06=180gr,Aproximately 2900ft lbs at muzzle,,,,.358win= 250gr bullet appr 2600ft lbs at muzzle(a little better with lighter bullets),,,.300winmag= 200gr bullet,appr 3500ft lbs at muzzle,(bullet selection is very,very optional) .338winmag= 250gr bullet,appr 4000ft lbs at muzzle.Bullet selection good,from 180gr to 250gr.,,,.35whelen=Appr 3900ft lbs at muzzle with 225gr bullet.("personal experience",225gr Nosler partition is best but200 to 250 option.) Remember,you gain recoil with power gain,either with heavier bullet,velocity,or both.Both the Whelen and .338winmag do catch your attention.(A .300winmag is the ideal chambering for large big game in NA to me.) Oh yeah,you definitely need a new rifle even tho the .30-06 will do it all.
     
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  8. big shrek

    big shrek G&G Evangelist

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    Marlin's XL-7 in .30-06 offers sub-moa precision & low price (start at $289) :D
    I have yet to see anyone have issues putting 'em all in the black with an Marlin X-series.
     
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  9. H-BAR

    H-BAR G&G Newbie

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    i live in Alaska as well, and theirs only 3 reasons IMHO why anyone would want to go with belted case mags..... 1, they don't practice enough to be confident on shot placement.... 2, they feel the need to shoot at game at vast distances well past there abilities because they don't now how to stalk said game.... and 3, they're trying to "compensate" for other short comings.. :smirk:

    the .300 WM with a 180 grain bullet at 2960 fps delivers 25.9 foot-pounds of recoil from an 8.5 pound rifle. for comparison, the .358 Winchester with a 250 grain bullet at 2300 fps delivers 25.4 foot-pounds of recoil from a 7.5 pound rifle. so even with a lighter rifle, the .358 recoils slightly less than a .300 magnum, so if your going to be doing allot of practicing (as EVERY ONE should) your 1st choice will ring your bell a bit less then the .300 WM. especially if you do allot of practice off hand, kneeling and prone (AS EVERYONE SHOULD!!!)

    granted that felt recoil disappears when faced with a charging rhino or cape buffalo (even when breathing heavy at big antlered critter threw your optics) but putting the necessary rounds down range to learn and dope the rifle becomes a tad painfull in the shoulder, as well as the wallet. even if you re-load the pain in the arse belted cases.

    i personally hunt primarily with a safari grade BAR in .30/06, or my 63' winchester model 70 in .35 Whelen. those 2 rifles have harvested moose, bear, black tails, white tails, mule deer, elk, sheep, caribou. some of those critters on a pretty regular basis for over 30 years, and i've never had to track a wounded animal, or worry about coming up short on a shot. the nessessity to buy more guns has had me tinkering with 6.5x55's and some AR based rifles, bit i would keep those 2 rifles over my whole collection in a heart beat since i really rely on wild game as a primary food source!

    i'm not trying to cut anyone down or start up a caliber debate, but i just don't see the need for most magnums unless your punching paper from a bench at 800 yds +, or going toe to toe with a big critter in Africa and need to punch threw some HEAVY bone and sinue. with most of them selling for over $1 a round, and reloading not saving you much, any money you save by getting a deal on a "big game" rifle is soon lost at the range. i'd personally stick to with the 06', or look into a .35 Whelen barrel. like was said before, the 6.5x55 and .270 Winchester are the most popular rounds world wide for stag and elk sized game. theirs no reason to go bigger unless you feel the need to get a new rifle, not that theirs anything wrong with that! lol
     
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  10. Mooseman684

    Mooseman684 G&G Newbie

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    As an Alaskan, your 3 above reasons are just plain silly. Actually they are insulting to well over 1/2 the Hunters in Alaska who Use Belted Mags up to .458.
    Most of us Using magnums arent Wimps , Have No "Shortcomings" and we have the capability because of our rifles to take sheep at Long ranges, Moose that are across a river from us or a Charging Grizzly bear where we need the energy to stop him dead in his tracks.Stalking in the terrain I hunt in is not always an option. I practice a LOT and recoil makes me feel Alive , and I know that if it recoils on me , the Energy is out in front to do its job when That 1600 lb. Moose walks out , or I get a shot at a Delta Buffalo !
    Reloading belted Mags has never been a problem for me , and lots of other reloaders have no problems with them.And .300 Mag ammo is cheaper than the ones you named last I checked , because it is More popular and readily available in most places due to so many Alaskans using it. You wont find .358 or .35 Whelen ammo here in the local store.
     
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  11. fggrub

    fggrub G&G Newbie

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    30-06 vs 358 win

    Thank you very much for your posts. They have been very helpful. I prefer to shoot within 200 yards unless I am out in the plains and have to shoot at longer distances. Magnums sound very pretty, but I just don't like all the hype and the punishment that goes with it.

    I suppose a 30-06 with the 220gr bullet will probably do the job on Elk and Moose. I just thought that I would go for something a little more powerful for the sake of the animal. I don't like to follow wounded animals.
     
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  12. Mooseman684

    Mooseman684 G&G Newbie

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    Here is a nice link showing Actual Recoil ratings>>>RECOIL
    Notice that a .300 Win mag is just 2-7 lbs more recoil than a 220 gr. 30/06.
    Judge them for yourself..

    For the record My Little woman shoots a 30/06 and she is 4'11 @ 125 lbs.
    The Secretary for our shooting Club is the same size and she Hunts Bears with a .300 Win mag.
    Alaskan Women must be tougher...LOL
     
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    Last edited: Apr 14, 2011
  13. Purdy

    Purdy G&G Evangelist

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    ffg, unless you just want a new gun, your 30/06 is more than adequate for hunting in the western US. Many, many elk fall to the /06 every season. 180's or better yet 200's should do just fine. Practice, practice, practice, and not just from the bench, try some sitting, knealing and off hand too. He who hesitates is lost (or doesn't get the shot).
     
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  14. samuel

    samuel G&G Newbie

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    I still say you need a new firearm!Anything between a .22lr and .458winny.
     
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  15. Crandaddy

    Crandaddy G&G Newbie

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    if your shooting under 200 yards then a magnum doesn't really make a bit of difference the gain in energy is negligible and you could run into the problem of over penetrating without enough expansion. I prefer a heavier bullet that move at a moderate speed, I'm not a fan of heavy bullets traveling at super fast speed. though as you can see everyone has slightly differing opinions and none of them are really wrong.

    I currently live in Montana and have hunted here for a number of years and my go to cartridge is my 308 win. it hasn't failed me yet. Use it on Bear, Elk, Mulies and Whitetails, ( haven't drawn a Moose tag yet but my fingers are crossed)

    I'd say if you have a 30-06 then use it the ammos cheaper for it and there is allot of excellent big game bullets to pick from, if you have a 358win then that would work too but you already have the best North American hunting cartridge...period...
     
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  16. stinkybriches

    stinkybriches G&G Enthusiast

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    proper bullet selection solves that problem.

    to moose- your table tells me its very painfull to shoot a .577 t-rex. seriously though thats a nice table with alot more cartrige's on it than the other one ive seen.
     
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