Gun and Game Forum banner
21 - 38 of 38 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,068 Posts
I'm with the "fun gun" camp when it comes to an AR pistol.
I built my 300BO AR pistol with a 10.5" barrel simply because I got a good deal on it. I was looking for a 12" but didn't find any at the time. My reasoning was that I was never going to use the AR as a concealed carry or belt holster gun. Just looking at a 300BO cartridge, I could see that there just is not a lot of powder space for the bullet size. It was never going to be any serious hunting weapon for me and is not my idea of a good option for defense against bears or cranky "mooses".
So it was mostly a "just because and fun" gun for me. As for home defense, it's not my notion of an ideal house gun. I do use it -sometimes- for night guard yard duty. We get coyotes all around us and I have 2 little dogs that would make a meal for them. I have a light and laser on it so it might be faster to get on target in the dark and ranges are short anyway.

It is accurate and fun to shoot. Cases aren't hard to make (good thing since I haven't seen factory rounds in a long time). But realistically, I have guns that are far more practical. So as I said, it was built as a fun gun.

That said, I did buy a 16" barrel on sale a few months ago. It's intended to try to wring out a little more performance from the 300BO. And it's just sitting there begging to be built into an upper to try in 3-gun. Again, just for the fun of it.
Same here, two small dogs and a creek runs within, 50 feet of my deck. Other than living in a flood zone we love seeing wildlife that follow the creek to a major river 2 miles away. I had a bachelor group of 8 Tom turkeys inside the fence yesterday and toms and hens at my feeder about 100 yards away all day today. They bring the coyotes. I think you light and laser are the smartest things you can put on one. I have lights but not lasers yet. I have a 1911-22 with light and laser and suppressor and it is great for skunks at night and we get a lot. I have the 10.5 inch and the 16 inch. Like you the pistol is more for fun.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,333 Posts
I really like the 300 BLK. round, have 4 weapons chambered (3 ARs and 1 Mini 14) for it and have killed literally tons of hogs and a few deer with it but I would NOT consider it for bear defense or even want to hunt black bear with it. I use the BLK when the shots are under 100 yds. and I am stand hunting where I can take my time and pick my shot. it is a marginally powered round for anything over 100 lbs.
to me, the beauty of the 300 BLK is that except for the barrel, all the same parts are used as with a 5.56 weapon. even the brass is made from scrap 5.56 brass. it can use ANY weight .308 bullet. 150 gr and under for supersonic and over 150 for sub sonic. it is a very efficient, accurate and mild shooting caliber but it is NOT a magnum dangerous game cartridge!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
I have no affiliation with any of these companies, but I like to shop the following for good deals on ar-15 parts:


Palmetto state armory
primary arms
ar15discounts
Brownells

there are many out there, but i have personally done business with these companies and recommend their service. they have good deals and selection.
Good list. I would like to throw Aero Precision on there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
RetiredFreedomfighter appreciate your comments and experience!

🧐LANGUAGE WARNING 🧐

Carrying it around the woods when I camp, could indeed increase my talks with a park ranger, didn’t think about that.

Also, I do have a 9mm so perhaps better training with that could fill the home defense and “camp” gun (I have more range experience with rifles which made the AR “pistol” more desirable), that being said I’m single.

Well, you given me some things to think about!

Cheers
This guy makes a solid case for the 9mm sbr for home defense.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
one of their m4e1 lowers is being deliver to my FFL tomorrow!
I have a M&P AR and assembled a Aero m5e1. Loved it so I built my son a m4e1. Now it wouldn't be right for my kid to have a better AR than I do so now I am a barrel, a handguard and a bolt carrier away from one for me. I really could not ask for better quality. If you don't already have them, I highly recommend the Hogue grip and stock. Optics planet has the set for $60. Changes the entire feel.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
I have a M&P AR and assembled a Aero m5e1. Loved it so I built my son a m4e1. Now it wouldn't be right for my kid to have a better AR than I do so now I am a barrel, a handguard and a bolt carrier away from one for me. I really could not ask for better quality. If you don't already have them, I highly recommend the Hogue grip and stock. Optics planet has the set for $60. Changes the entire feel.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,068 Posts
This guy makes a solid case for the 9mm sbr for home defense.

Actually he makes a point of not using anything like 5.56 or 300 or anything high velocity. His point is limited penetration. The best trade off for that is probably the 45 acp frangible loads or any 9mm handgun with gold dots or similar. All of the bold sky Marshall ammo works the same way as his tests, Glaser Safety Slugs, the Mag Tec and many others. People like LEOs who have searched homes and buildings at night do not all, agree but my experience is you do not want something 2 foot long to round corners with in the dark. Been there many times you will sling your SBR and get that 45 in hand. I agree as to the light, I Do Not agree to turning on your speaker on your phone or when you call 911 you hunker down and hide and ambush as necessary. Giving away your position is a rookie mistake. The laser also is great if push button activated or by pressure switch,. You only need to see the intruder to stop any attack when you have the laser and are hidden in darkness. You can warn him with a yell and one second later hit him with the laser and bullets if appropriate. You do not need the light on for that. If he us a nighttime intruder he likely has his own light, his last fatal mistake.

Home invasions are not like close combat drills in shoot houses, those are fun and ARs and SBRs work fine, but in total darkness in cluttered house, not so much. Been there done that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,530 Posts
Actually he makes a point of not using anything like 5.56 or 300 or anything high velocity. His point is limited penetration. The best trade off for that is probably the 45 acp frangible loads or any 9mm handgun with gold dots or similar. All of the bold sky Marshall ammo works the same way as his tests, Glaser Safety Slugs, the Mag Tec and many others. People like LEOs who have searched homes and buildings at night do not all, agree but my experience is you do not want something 2 foot long to round corners with in the dark. Been there many times you will sling your SBR and get that 45 in hand. I agree as to the light, I Do Not agree to turning on your speaker on your phone or when you call 911 you hunker down and hide and ambush as necessary. Giving away your position is a rookie mistake. The laser also is great if push button activated or by pressure switch,. You only need to see the intruder to stop any attack when you have the laser and are hidden in darkness. You can warn him with a yell and one second later hit him with the laser and bullets if appropriate. You do not need the light on for that. If he us a nighttime intruder he likely has his own light, his last fatal mistake.

Home invasions are not like close combat drills in shoot houses, those are fun and ARs and SBRs work fine, but in total darkness in cluttered house, not so much. Been there done that.
I'm going to somewhat disagree with you on the traditional pistol being better than an AR pistol or SBR for home defense. The longer barrel and longer sight radius alone is an advantage. The arm brace/buttstock will also aid in stabilizing your weapon especially when the adrenaline is pumping through your body.

There is a difference in clearing an unknown home/building and clearing your own home. You are intimately familiar with your home. You know where everything is and where to hide. You have the tactical advantage whereas the criminal is in unfamiliar surroundings. The ballistics of the AR style pistols are superior to any self defense handgun. And if you are worried about over penetration then you can load or buy the Barnes frangible bullets like the 5.56 M/LE or the 150gr .308 MPG bullets. The break up/fragment on contacting the target while still penetrating.
There was one Fish and Game dept that used them for shooting problem or injured animals. I don't recall the particular agency.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,068 Posts
I'm going to somewhat disagree with you on the traditional pistol being better than an AR pistol or SBR for home defense. The longer barrel and longer sight radius alone is an advantage. The arm brace/buttstock will also aid in stabilizing your weapon especially when the adrenaline is pumping through your body.

There is a difference in clearing an unknown home/building and clearing your own home. You are intimately familiar with your home. You know where everything is and where to hide. You have the tactical advantage whereas the criminal is in unfamiliar surroundings. The ballistics of the AR style pistols are superior to any self defense handgun. And if you are worried about over penetration then you can load or buy the Barnes frangible bullets like the 5.56 M/LE or the 150gr .308 MPG bullets. The break up/fragment on contacting the target while still penetrating.
There was one Fish and Game dept that used them for shooting problem or injured animals. I don't recall the particular agency.

I have a magazine of 223 frangibles within feet of my bed,my gun has HP in it. Like them but live rural and there are only 2 of us so I do not worry about penetration. Your comment about knowing your own home is similar to what I said above.

'''''''' I have mixed views. was involved in a number or raids and sudden arrests, you simply cannot move through your house very well with the AR pistol. You need to be able to fire with one hand, the other will be needed for a cell phone, to herd your kids,wife, or dog, and open and close doors, you do not want a 2 foot long gun for close encounters. "''''''I

My experience has been in places where the intruder may be a terrorist. The ballistics do not matter as much as the first hit and then the second hit will decide if you live or die, the other 28 probably do not matter. They will be close , as you or the other guy rounds a corner. They are indoors, usually at night, and muzzle blast is important . The ARs are great for that. I just bring my military experience into the home intrusion situation. I am never going to be in a gun fight with a intruder in my home. That is a dumb thing to do. He only needs to get off one round to kill your kid dog or wife. The better scenario would be an ambush where he got 3 rounds before he knows someone is home.

As far as sight radious I do not need any inside a dark house, I just nee to see him and the front sight. any way that is what I was taught in close combat military specialized courses. it is what I teach in my CCW courses which are handguns of course, but there is no right way just different ways. Have the AR pistol in 300 and I have pistol caliber carbine. They are just not my first choice if I am the one who,meets some stranger in my own hallway at 3:00 am.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,530 Posts
I have a magazine of 223 frangibles within feet of my bed,my gun has HP in it. Like them but live rural and there are only 2 of us so I do not worry about penetration. Your comment about knowing your own home is similar to what I said above.

'''''''' I have mixed views. was involved in a number or raids and sudden arrests, you simply cannot move through your house very well with the AR pistol. You need to be able to fire with one hand, the other will be needed for a cell phone, to herd your kids,wife, or dog, and open and close doors, you do not want a 2 foot long gun for close encounters. "''''''I

My experience has been in places where the intruder may be a terrorist. The ballistics do not matter as much as the first hit and then the second hit will decide if you live or die, the other 28 probably do not matter. They will be close , as you or the other guy rounds a corner. They are indoors, usually at night, and muzzle blast is important . The ARs are great for that. I just bring my military experience into the home intrusion situation. I am never going to be in a gun fight with a intruder in my home. That is a dumb thing to do. He only needs to get off one round to kill your kid dog or wife. The better scenario would be an ambush where he got 3 rounds before he knows someone is home.

As far as sight radious I do not need any inside a dark house, I just nee to see him and the front sight. any way that is what I was taught in close combat military specialized courses. it is what I teach in my CCW courses which are handguns of course, but there is no right way just different ways. Have the AR pistol in 300 and I have pistol caliber carbine. They are just not my first choice if I am the one who,meets some stranger in my own hallway at 3:00 am.
I too was taught in the Military in Close Quarters Combat Training as well as attending the Army's MP SRT school. I was also on my base SRT team. We did A LOT of building/home clearing training. We trained with the Berreta M9 as well as shotguns, MP5s, and the M4.
I can easily manipulate my 10mm AR pistol with one hand with the arm brace tucked into my shoulder. Easily enough to open a door or grab a child. I will, under no circumstances be holding a cell phone. That will be the job of my wife. In a situation such as a home invasion the last thing I am wanting to do is try and contact law enforcement, answer their 100s of questions, and try and defend my family at the same time. Besides if I were going to try and ambush anyone I'm not going to be giving up my position by running my mouth on the phone with the Police.
The muzzle flash from a short barreled 223/5.56 is indeed a blinding fireball. With my 10mm, I have a muzzle device that directs the blast out towards the front and not in every direction. That coupled with the 10.5" barrel it really doesn't produce much muzzle blast in low light. When I first bought it I took it out shooting at sunset to see how bad the flash was. It was less than my 10mm handguns by far.
I have zero experience with the 300BLK so I can't speak to it's muzzle blast personally. I do know however that I have watched videos of people shooting them in low light and read where people say there is less muzzle blast than the 5.56 pistols.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,257 Posts
I too was taught in the Military in Close Quarters Combat Training as well as attending the Army's MP SRT school. I was also on my base SRT team. We did A LOT of building/home clearing training. We trained with the Berreta M9 as well as shotguns, MP5s, and the M4.
I can easily manipulate my 10mm AR pistol with one hand with the arm brace tucked into my shoulder. Easily enough to open a door or grab a child. I will, under no circumstances be holding a cell phone. That will be the job of my wife. In a situation such as a home invasion the last thing I am wanting to do is try and contact law enforcement, answer their 100s of questions, and try and defend my family at the same time. Besides if I were going to try and ambush anyone I'm not going to be giving up my position by running my mouth on the phone with the Police.
The muzzle flash from a short barreled 223/5.56 is indeed a blinding fireball. With my 10mm, I have a muzzle device that directs the blast out towards the front and not in every direction. That coupled with the 10.5" barrel it really doesn't produce much muzzle blast in low light. When I first bought it I took it out shooting at sunset to see how bad the flash was. It was less than my 10mm handguns by far.
I have zero experience with the 300BLK so I can't speak to it's muzzle blast personally. I do know however that I have watched videos of people shooting them in low light and read where people say there is less muzzle blast than the 5.56 pistols.

man i bet that 10mm is cooking from a 10.5 " barrel! and im sure it would be less of a significant blast than a short .300blk.


I chose to go with .300 blk mostly due to the fact that its completely compatible with stndrd ar-15 parts except for the barrel.
 

·
Wonderment :)
Joined
·
36,496 Posts
MosinRuger: Sir; for information 🤓



10mm Results in fps
Click here for a Muzzle Energy graph for the tests in this caliber.

barrel length​
Cor Bon
135 gr.
Pow'R Ball​
Cor Bon
135 gr.
JHP​
Cor Bon
150 gr.
JHP​
Cor Bon
165 gr.
JHP​
Cor Bon
155 gr.
DPX​
Federal
180 gr.
Hydra-Shok​
Buffalo
Bore
180 gr.
JHC​
Winchester
175 gr.
Silvertip​
Hornady
200 gr.
XTP​
18"​
1640​
1710​
1567​
1447​
1319​
1232​
1573​
1370​
1260​
17"​
1626​
1711​
1559​
1459​
1352​
1209​
1564​
1362​
1243​
16"​
1643​
1701​
1570​
1441​
1349​
1220​
1573​
1384​
1257​
15"​
1620​
1662​
1574​
1441​
1339​
1204​
1555​
1357​
1267​
14"​
1639​
1691​
1569​
1439​
1355​
1222​
1583​
1397​
1280​
13"​
1634​
1679​
1547​
1437​
1354​
1223​
1586​
1365​
1269​
12"​
1615​
1653​
1519​
1410​
1307​
1195​
1562​
1321​
1267​
11"​
1600​
1643​
1521​
1401​
1329​
1182​
1543​
1312​
1225​
10"​
1580​
1601​
1494​
1400​
1333​
1171​
1509​
1348​
1234​
9"​
1568​
1594​
1489​
1378​
1306​
1179​
1508​
1304​
1206​
8"​
1533​
1575​
1466​
1349​
1294​
1146​
1482​
1276​
1190​
7"​
1508​
1575​
1446​
1331​
1268​
1129​
1453​
1269​
1184​
6"​
1432​
1504​
1426​
1307​
1254​
1093​
1428​
1228​
1174​
5"​
1418​
1411​
1382​
1260​
1244​
1069​
1399​
1225​
1133​
4"​
1328​
1322​
1301​
1209​
1183​
1013​
1338​
1149​
1077​
3"​
1248​
1255​
1218​
1157​
1116​
927​
1250​
1089​
1032​
2"​
1083​
1071​
1020​
976​
1014​
841​
1111​
950​
912
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,257 Posts
wow! the 10mm in a carbine can be a thumper with the lighter bullets. not too impressive with the 180 ad up though.

yeah i actually compared the 10mm and .300 blk befor making my last post, and saw the data neo posted above.

while the 10mm is impressive for a pistol round out of a longer barrel, its not really as much of a match to the .300 than i though it would be.

.300 blk is going near 2000 fps out of a 10.5" with similar bullet weights.

but they are two entirely different platforms
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,333 Posts
the main advantages to the 300 BLK sub sonic loads over pistol calibers going the same speed with the same weight bullet is the shape of the 300's bullet. a 200 gr spire pointed rifle bullet going 1000 fps has a much better ballistic coefficient and sectional density than a 200 gr. .40 or .45 pistol bullet going the same speed. this gives the 300 a lot longer practical range and more retained energy down range. people regularly shoot (and hit) targets out to 300 yds with 300 BLK subs. it is also the reason that most subsonic 300 BLK loads have way too much over penetration if used as a inside the home defense caliber. to safely use it in that role, you should buy the super expensive fast expanding boutique bullets that are available.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
17,092 Posts
I have a Sig MCX Rattler pistol in .300 blackout with a 5.5" barrel. One might think that's super short for a barrel even for .300 blackout but Sig figured out that a 1:5 twist rate works wonders for that cartridge and barrel length combination.

Mine is set up somewhat similar to the ones here.
TFB Review: SIG Sauer MCX Rattler - 1 Year Later -The Firearm Blog

Its loaded with Sigs 110 grain super sonic SBR load with the copper bonded hollowpoints. I have no problem with a short carbine or braced pistol inside a building. You can still shoot it one handed if you needed too with an extra point of contact and its much more accurate otherwise. In rare cases would I NOT do a swat entry with just a pistol into a building (we would use a short carbine or SMG without issue so no reason to handy cap myself ballistically or capability wise in my own home. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,257 Posts
.300 blk isnt a "Several hundred yard" deer cartridge, never was in tended to be. but its plenty powerful at ranges out to 1-150 yards, and especially up close. if you want a short barreled ar-15, under 10.5", its the way to go, hands down.

I really want to get a ruger American ranch rifle in .300blk to complement my ar-pistol.
 
21 - 38 of 38 Posts
Top