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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
That 32 NAA is in a category all it's own. I thought they quit making it a few years ago. I know Corbon who developed it no longer makes ammo. for it. And Hornady made a reduced load but I thought they dropped it too. I just checked ammoseek and they do not even list it. I assume you could form brass from 380. Anyway, am I missing something or is somebody else makimg ammo for it? There is so many changes in the gun world I do not always keep up.
 

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Well this thread made me wonder what happened to the round. So, I ran the net for a while.

That makes my point, they still have a listing but no ammo for sale anywhere. Not sure the year that Hornady dumped it but it does not shown up in their ammo line up any more.
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And Corbon no longer lists it at all. Here is the li question st from their site.

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Ii did find this NRA American Rifleman article from 2017 where they tested the Guardian and mentioned that Corbon who developed the round had dropped it.

"'The downsides to a round like the .32 NAA is limited ammo availability (in fact, CorBon has discontinued producing this ammo, leading me to acquire some excellent Hornady 80-gr. Critical Defense ammo for testing in its stead). " Tested: North American Arms .32 NAA Guardian | An Official Journal Of The NRA (americanrifleman.org)

I think what killed it was that it did not really get the 1200 fps with a 60 grain buckets like they claimed. In fact, in that article they tested the Hornady brand and here is what the found.

"Hands On
I requested a test sample of the .32 NAA along with some Hornady 80-gr. Critical Defense ammo
As I mentioned above, as CorBon has discontinued its .25 and .32 NAA offerings, I selected Hornady’s 80-gr. Critical Defense load for testing. While it does not feature the blazing top speed of the CorBon 60-gr. loading, it is rated at 1,000 fps at the muzzle, and its 178 ft.-lbs. of energy is nothing to scoff at. "

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That is only 173 foot pounds. The hottest 32 acp moves a 60 grain bullet at 1000 fps, for 120 foot pounds out of a 2 inch, or up to nearly 180 foot pounds out of a 4 inch test barrel, just not in an actual gun. BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: .32 Auto Results. So, I think you are right, if you could launch it from a 4 inch barrel it could get close to a 380.

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The 380 has has two Buffalo Bore rounds that will get 200-220 foot pounds from a 2 inch and over 250 foot pounds if you went to over a 3-4 inch. That 173 foot pounds in the 32 NAA really was not competitive with the 380. Also,the regular 32 acp by Corbon gets 1000 fps with the 60 grain bullet. At ballistics by the inch. They range from 110-150 foot pound in the 2-3 inch barrels.

Buffalo Bore claims the hottest 32 acp, About 120 foot pounds in my Seecamp but up to 165 foot pounds in a 3 inch.
➤ 1,001 fps -- Berretta Mod. 70, 3-inch bbl.
910 fps -- Kel Tec, 2.5-inch bbl
856 fps -- Seecamp, 2-inch bbl.


So that is my take on it. Just expensive and hard to find ammo killed the caliber, when the 380 was just a lot more powerful and ammo was everywhere. Even Walmart until a couple years ago.. I shoot the Corbon and Silvertips in my Seecamp and they are flawless. The Seecamp was designed to shoot the short hollow points and most ball ammo is not reliable. Ammo js not cheap so I do not shoot it much. I do shoot the 380s and reload for them and like I said above I killed a bunch of critters with the 380 including one deer with a broken leg in the middle of the highway. The 380 is excellent for skunks also. Be curious to know if people have them and reload for them. Nothing wrong with that, you just become your own ammo store.

Later
 
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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
From the time of its first introduction until sometime after WW2 the .32 ACP enjoyed a reputation as an adequate military and police round as most situations did not require stopping a fanatical attacker. Most of those shot either dropped or ran away rather than keep getting punctured. If a man did keep coming you shot for the head as he got close. Even if you missed the head if you had a .32 ACP in his boiler room it was going to let the steam out of him fast so his chances of prevailing in hand to hand combat against you were dropping by the second.

The FMJ ammunition had great penetration ability which saved many of its user’s lives in tight spots as it shot through a lot of the cover their enemy was attempting to use. Giving up this penetration for the negligible increase in stopping power of expanding .32 caliber bullets is a bad trade-off. You can’t make a .45 out of a .32 but you can quickly give up the .32 ACP’s big ace in the hole, penetration, by going to expanding bullets.

Savage .32 ACP with a holster of the period. One of the first high capacity double column pistol magazines it’s slogan was “10 shots quick.” The French military bought 40,000 of these and issued them in WW1.
Large numbers of .32 ACP pistols were employed by countries on both sides in both World Wars. A lot of these saw intense combat, especially in the trench fighting of the First World War. The fact that large numbers were still used in the Second World War shows how the Europeans felt about the FMJ .32 ACP round and how well it performed for them.

Up until WW2 concealed carry was popular in Europe and the .25ACP vest pocket pistols and the .32ACP pocket pistols dominated the market. Bigger calibers in larger pistols were available but this is what sold and got carried and used.

In those days, trappers often used a .32 ACP to finish off game in their traps as it killed far better than a .22LR without putting a noticeably bigger hole in the pelt. It was much more humane than a .22LR which sometimes did not give the desired result of a quick and merciful killing. There were instances of trappers even killing bear with .32 ACP pistols. Both bears in traps and a few instances of attacking bears were killed by the little round but no trapper ever set out to stop a bear charge with .32’s to the head and body of a bear. These things just happen sometimes to people who don’t also pack a rifle or a heavy caliber pistol on long lonely trap lines deep in the woods.

You might not think a .32 diameter 71-grain bullet at 960 FPS amounts to much but when you move up just a bit to the .380 ACP you increase recoil just enough that the casual shooter starts having trouble keeping his shots on target. That’s why for most of the history of these two cartridges the .32 was the most popular. A lot of European military officers and European policemen, not having a background with a lot of pistol shooting, fell into this category so the .32 ACP grew in popularity. In more recent decades the Czechoslovakian VZ/62 submachinegun was chambered for this cartridge. They sold quite a lot of these and I always thought that if the Ingram M11 SMG had been chambered for the .32ACP instead of the .380ACP that it would have been a bigger success as it’s extremely high rate of fire would have been lower with the lower recoiling round and the gun thus more controllable.

Far away in distant Japan the same situation was occurring. The Japanese wanted their own version of the .32 ACP so they adopted the .32-caliber 8MM Nambu bottle-necked cartridge with .32 ACP ballistics, an 83-grain bullet at 950 fps. It worked just fine. The Nambu pistol mimics the Luger’s grip angle and is also extremely accurate and pleasant to shoot. It’s so nice that I’d like to see it brought back in .32 ACP. Full size pistols are easier to hit with than pocket pistols and this would bring out all the accuracy potential of the .32 ACP.

The Japanese also used their 8MM Nambu cartridge in a very controllable SMG, their Type 100.

Civilian sales have always been the prime mover of the .32 ACP and its success with the world’s military and police clinched the deal for many buyers. All these customers were gravitating towards the biggest caliber that they could hit with reasonably well that still performed adequately for them.

For the casual shooter that would be the .32 ACP in a gun the size of a M1903 Colt or a Savage pocket pistol. Note that I am NOT including the super small modern micro mini .32’s as these do have more recoil than the casual shooter is going to tolerate well. These older .32’s are small and easy to carry and conceal. That is a very big deal to the casual pistol packer who is not deeply into shooting.

Are they ideal? No, a .45 ACP or a .45 Colt is ideal but they require more practice and more expensive ammo to master, something not everyone will commit to. The biggest gun that has no more recoil than a .22LR is what a lot of people need to be able to shoot accurately with what they carry and that is what the .32 ACP is all about. That is its niche and it fills it very well.
 

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From the time of its first introduction until sometime after WW2 the .32 ACP enjoyed a reputation as an adequate military and police round as most situations did not require stopping a fanatical attacker. Most of those shot either dropped or ran away rather than keep getting punctured. If a man did keep coming you shot for the head as he got close. Even if you missed the head if you had a .32 ACP in his boiler room it was going to let the steam out of him fast so his chances of prevailing in hand to hand combat against you were dropping by the second.

The FMJ ammunition had great penetration ability which saved many of its user’s lives in tight spots as it shot through a lot of the cover their enemy was attempting to use. Giving up this penetration for the negligible increase in stopping power of expanding .32 caliber bullets is a bad trade-off. You can’t make a .45 out of a .32 but you can quickly give up the .32 ACP’s big ace in the hole, penetration, by going to expanding bullets.

Savage .32 ACP with a holster of the period. One of the first high capacity double column pistol magazines it’s slogan was “10 shots quick.” The French military bought 40,000 of these and issued them in WW1.
Large numbers of .32 ACP pistols were employed by countries on both sides in both World Wars. A lot of these saw intense combat, especially in the trench fighting of the First World War. The fact that large numbers were still used in the Second World War shows how the Europeans felt about the FMJ .32 ACP round and how well it performed for them.

Up until WW2 concealed carry was popular in Europe and the .25ACP vest pocket pistols and the .32ACP pocket pistols dominated the market. Bigger calibers in larger pistols were available but this is what sold and got carried and used.

In those days, trappers often used a .32 ACP to finish off game in their traps as it killed far better than a .22LR without putting a noticeably bigger hole in the pelt. It was much more humane than a .22LR which sometimes did not give the desired result of a quick and merciful killing. There were instances of trappers even killing bear with .32 ACP pistols. Both bears in traps and a few instances of attacking bears were killed by the little round but no trapper ever set out to stop a bear charge with .32’s to the head and body of a bear. These things just happen sometimes to people who don’t also pack a rifle or a heavy caliber pistol on long lonely trap lines deep in the woods.

You might not think a .32 diameter 71-grain bullet at 960 FPS amounts to much but when you move up just a bit to the .380 ACP you increase recoil just enough that the casual shooter starts having trouble keeping his shots on target. That’s why for most of the history of these two cartridges the .32 was the most popular. A lot of European military officers and European policemen, not having a background with a lot of pistol shooting, fell into this category so the .32 ACP grew in popularity. In more recent decades the Czechoslovakian VZ/62 submachinegun was chambered for this cartridge. They sold quite a lot of these and I always thought that if the Ingram M11 SMG had been chambered for the .32ACP instead of the .380ACP that it would have been a bigger success as it’s extremely high rate of fire would have been lower with the lower recoiling round and the gun thus more controllable.

Far away in distant Japan the same situation was occurring. The Japanese wanted their own version of the .32 ACP so they adopted the .32-caliber 8MM Nambu bottle-necked cartridge with .32 ACP ballistics, an 83-grain bullet at 950 fps. It worked just fine. The Nambu pistol mimics the Luger’s grip angle and is also extremely accurate and pleasant to shoot. It’s so nice that I’d like to see it brought back in .32 ACP. Full size pistols are easier to hit with than pocket pistols and this would bring out all the accuracy potential of the .32 ACP.

The Japanese also used their 8MM Nambu cartridge in a very controllable SMG, their Type 100.

Civilian sales have always been the prime mover of the .32 ACP and its success with the world’s military and police clinched the deal for many buyers. All these customers were gravitating towards the biggest caliber that they could hit with reasonably well that still performed adequately for them.

For the casual shooter that would be the .32 ACP in a gun the size of a M1903 Colt or a Savage pocket pistol. Note that I am NOT including the super small modern micro mini .32’s as these do have more recoil than the casual shooter is going to tolerate well. These older .32’s are small and easy to carry and conceal. That is a very big deal to the casual pistol packer who is not deeply into shooting.

Are they ideal? No, a .45 ACP or a .45 Colt is ideal but they require more practice and more expensive ammo to master, something not everyone will commit to. The biggest gun that has no more recoil than a .22LR is what a lot of people need to be able to shoot accurately with what they carry and that is what the .32 ACP is all about. That is its niche and it fills it very well.
The Ruger Standard (generally called the Marks 1,2 and 3) series owes a great deal to the Nambu (as do several other target pistols). I bring this up because back in the day there was some company doing .32 conversions on them, and I have run across a handful of Mark II pistols in .32.
 

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Discussion Starter · #48 ·
My friend picked up her Zastava M70 today, and it is in almost 100% pristine condition. I'm going to clean it up, lube the heck out of it, and arrange for her to obtain 200 rounds of ball ammunition. After she gets familiar with the pistol, I'll make certain that she has a nice original flap holster and a belt-slide holster for concealed carry.

Remember:
"The FMJ ammunition had great penetration ability which saved many of its user’s lives in tight spots as it shot through a lot of the cover their enemy was attempting to use. Giving up this penetration for the negligible increase in stopping power of expanding .32 caliber bullets is a bad trade-off. You can’t make a .45 out of a .32 but you can quickly give up the .32 ACP’s big ace in the hole, penetration, by going to expanding bullets."

You can take that to the bank!
 

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wow! I never heard of that conversion! I've often wished that my Ruger Standard was in a larger caliber. they are great point shooters!
When I was at Ruger in the 1980s we experimented with a centerfire version which used .32 S&W Long flush-seated factory wadcutters, but it was never accurate or reliable enough to compete in the Euro market against the Walther and Pardini target pistols, so never got beyond the prototype stage. The .32 ACP functioned reliably, but was not accurate enough for target work and underpowered and too large for home defense.
 

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wow! I never heard of that conversion! I've often wished that my Ruger Standard was in a larger caliber. they are great point shooters!
They are pretty rare. All the ones I've seen in person were owned by one guy who was a serious Ruger collector. If you look online there are a few gun forums discussing them, but I can't find any pictures or anything.
 

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When I was at Ruger in the 1980s we experimented with a centerfire version which used .32 S&W Long flush-seated factory wadcutters, but it was never accurate or reliable enough to compete in the Euro market against the Walther and Pardini target pistols, so never got beyond the prototype stage. The .32 ACP functioned reliably, but was not accurate enough for target work and underpowered and too large for home defense.
Did Ruger actually release these? Knowing what I know about Bill, I imagine a few would be out in the wild somewhere even if they hadn't.
 

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Did Ruger actually release these? Knowing what I know about Bill, I imagine a few would be out in the wild somewhere even if they hadn't.
So far as I know only a few engineering test samples were ever made. Steve Vogel took one to Europe to show around at the IWA trade show, but it was less accurate than the Euro match pistols, so little interest. I expect a few are around, but not more than a handful.
 

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Discussion Starter · #53 ·
She has yet to shoot the pistol, but needs to replace the rear blade sight pronto! I have it on good authority that the current monstrosity that it currently wears will cause the piece to shoot about 18" higher than the original POA.

More expense, doggone it!
 

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Discussion Starter · #54 ·
When I was at Ruger in the 1980s we experimented with a centerfire version which used .32 S&W Long flush-seated factory wadcutters, but it was never accurate or reliable enough to compete in the Euro market against the Walther and Pardini target pistols, so never got beyond the prototype stage. The .32 ACP functioned reliably, but was not accurate enough for target work and underpowered and too large for home defense.
I think the .32 ACP would be perfect in a slightly shorter grip-frame version of the original Ruger Mark I a full 4.2-inch barrel would make a great "nightstand pistol". Rated for +P .32 ACP ammunition (or .32 NAA) such a piece would likely find its way into the holster of many a trapper/woods walker looking for a lightning-fast and moderately powered, self-loading pistol.

What do I know? ;):rolleyes:
 

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I enjoy shooting the little 32 once in a while, but the most fun is shooting them out of a rifle. They make inserts for British 303, 308 , and 30-06. They claim up to 1100 fps and 190 foot pounds. I only have the 303 adapter and it is a hoot. About 1 inch groups at 25 yards and about as quiet as my suppressed 22lr. A great survival gimmick if you have one of the three rifles

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I have not put them in the chrono but do think the are just as powerful as a 22 long rifle and they are much quieter,more like a pellet gun or 22 short. Perfect for rabbits or squirrels probably out beyond 50-60 yards. Not something I would call a first choice, but cerainly handy if you have any gun in 303, 308, or 30-06.
 

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I think the .32 ACP would be perfect in a slightly shorter grip-frame version of the original Ruger Mark I a full 4.2-inch barrel would make a great "nightstand pistol". Rated for +P .32 ACP ammunition (or .32 NAA) such a piece would likely find its way into the holster of many a trapper/woods walker looking for a lightning-fast and moderately powered, self-loading pistol.

What do I know? ;):rolleyes:

idk man, that sounds like a pretty obscure and less-than-ideal sidearm these days. there are just so many better choices.

unless someone just has mountains of .32acp stocked, Im not seeing the benefit.

not sure what would make it particularly "lightnig fast" either.
 

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Discussion Starter · #60 ·
The Ruger Mark I (in 22. lr) was my first pistol. I was 16 and worked all summer of 1970 to buy it. (Dad signed the papers). It was a "lightning-fast" pointer for me.

I would enjoy this in a caliber that was set up (sprung) to handle the .32 ACP+p cartridge. I like the grip angle and the way that it naturally comes up onto the target. (A 6 1/2-inch barrel would be especially sweet). Smaller game would be on the radar for my pot/dinner plate. With the hottest .32 ACP loads, the negligible recoil generated by the round would be a nice attribute. Rabbit stew, nasty 20-30lb pests, skunks, and other vermin would be short work for the hotter, small-bore pistol. (200-220 ft. lbs is reasonably potent). With the longer barrel, the hollowpoint bullets would be more likely to expand.

It isn't a pocket auto, but with the more energetic (and accurate) round, the pests around the farmhouse will have met their match.
 
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