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It is amazing how fickle gun enthusiasts are. I think they are worse about gun "fashion" than women are about shoes.

If the 40S&W was not a viable cartridge, then why was it the "Holy Grail" 15 years ago? If it WAS/IS a viable self defense cartridge, then why is it now "a forgotten cartridge?"

I shoot ALL the main pistol and revolver cartridges, and reload for all of them as well.

I have carried: .32, .380, 38Spl., 9MM, .357Magnum, SIG357, 40S&W, 10MM, .44Spl., .44Magnum, and 45 Colt.

I still think the 40S&W is the best available Self Defense cartridge on the market for an "across the board" CCW firearm. My opinion. YMMV
 

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Since 03-15- 2002
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^ agreed
A case can be made that 9 is getting a second wind due to projectile technology. The same new projectile technology still applies to .40 and others?

I don’t think any are an end all to the others, but all can do their part when properly applied to the situation.


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^ agreed
A case can be made that 9 is getting a second wind due to projectile technology. The same new projectile technology still applies to .40 and others?

I don’t think any are an end all to the others, but all can do their part when properly applied to the situation.
Thank you. I was waiting for someone to bring up the bullet technology thing.

You are correct! If the increased bullet technology makes the 9MM "better" than it was, then it also works for the 40S&W. I'm not sure if it would apply to the .45 AUTO, because of the lower velocity.
 

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I like the .40 Short & Wimpy. (says a 10mm fan boy) close enough to .45 acp ballistics and higher magazine capacity. when shooting targets that react, it knocks' them a LOT harder than the 9mm does. and like said above, bullet technology goes across the board for all pistol calibers.
 

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I was never a fan of the 40, but I dang sure wouldn't lose any sleep if that's all I had in my holster! Very, very affective round!
Effective
 

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I like the .40 Short & Wimpy. (says a 10mm fan boy) close enough to .45 acp ballistics and higher magazine capacity. when shooting targets that react, it knocks' them a LOT harder than the 9mm does. and like said above, bullet technology goes across the board for all pistol calibers.
I am a BIG fan of the 10MM, but I do not use it very often for CCW. I generally use the 40S&W for CCW, in G23, G27, and G22, in that order.
 

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Thank you. I was waiting for someone to bring up the bullet technology thing.

You are correct! If the increased bullet technology makes the 9MM "better" than it was, then it also works for the 40S&W. I'm not sure if it would apply to the .45 AUTO, because of the lower velocity.
Good point
It may be blasphemy, but this may be more relevant in .45 ACP or .45 Colt for that matter with lighter projectiles that can be pushed faster. However, when talking 180 grain or < in .45, we circle back to .40 with a slight diameter penalty.

If a .45 Is all a person has, there could be potential, or stick with big, slow, heavy that’s always done the job for the most part. I love options personally.


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....... this may be more relevant in .45 ACP or .45 Colt for that matter with lighter projectiles that can be pushed faster. However, when talking 180 grain or < in .45, we circle back to .40 with a slight diameter penalty.

If a .45 Is all a person has, there could be potential, or stick with big, slow, heavy that’s always done the job for the most part. I love options personally.
Yes! With the lighter 45 cal. bullets, you CAN push them a lot faster, and make the "new" bullet technology work to your advantage. If all I had were .45 caliber guns, that would be a great option.

However, the reason I went to the .40 caliber guns in the first place, was to get the increased round count in the magazine. With the "new" bullet technology, I get more rounds with the same effectiveness as the "old" big, slow, heavy .45 bullets, for Self Defense against human targets.
 

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light bullets in big diameters don't work too well.
what happens is they turn into round balls cut in half.
you can't rely on them working point forward all the time.
I have pushed 165gr bullets to some 'did you see that number?' in my 45 lever rifles, but I'm not too sure what they were doing on paper at 50yds.

the 45 does just fine with momentum and a nose shape that feeds reliably in everything without any fancy technologies applied.
 

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My .40 hits steel plates noticeably harder than the 9mm. The bullet has more momentum and is heavier while still traveling at a decent velocity. If I had to go up against any type of animal that could hurt me I'd certainly prefer a .40 over a 9.

I think the switch to 9mm by LE was largely due to standardization and cost (at least then-cost of 9mm ammo). It's also a little harder to shoot accurately due to it's snappiness (which is why the FBI went from the 10mm to the .40 in the first place; some folks had trouble handling the 10mm). That kinda tells me something; if you can't handle a ten, then can't handle the derated 10 (40SW), perhaps the answer lay in your training and not in the gun.

And the ORIGINAL switch was made in the first place due to a 9mm shot 'failing' to stop a gunfight (which was a hardware 'solution' to a software problem--blaming a caliber for the dynamics of a gunfight rather than the shooting, training, and fog o' war results).

So then it was back to the 9. I think although bullet technology HAS advanced significantly, there still IS (and always was) better ballistics in the .40; at least as far as thump into a target. And the same argument that the 9 was somehow 'better' due to tech advances ALSO goes to the .40.

All LE get to shoot, train, qualify. FEW of them will ever be involved in shootings. So a change to the 9 is relatively transparent--given the odds and costs the chance of having to use it is slim and if you do it'll probably work good enough. So you're dealing with an administrative decision based on cost (and cost of training) more than anything else. Looking at admin costs and training costs rather than round effectiveness (or at least weighting it less).

I carry both the 9 and .40. I'm proficient with both. I prefer the .40; everything is a trade off so I don't feel particularly bad when I'm carrying my 9mm Sig P365.
 

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the switch was made because girly boys can't shoot a 40.
LOL!!! That seems more likely, since the ammo costs don't seem to be significantly different between 9MM and 40S&W, unless you account for the extra ammo required with the 40S&W for some folks to get proficient with it. ;)
 

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A lot of shooters criticize the .40 because, its not a fast cartridge, and runs normally about 900 or so. But, that was how it was designed. There's nothing wrong with it really.
 

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I like the 40 S&W, and have carried several different ones over the years. The ballistics of the 40 S&W are superior in my opinion, although I agree with the comments about ballistics being much better in the 9mm these day. I too carry everything from a .380, 9mm, 38 spl, up to a 40 S&W on a regular basis.

Some people claim the 40 is too snappy, but my wife can handle it with the proper grip, but her go to gun is always a 1911 in 45 ACP.

I typically carry Hornady Critical Defense in my home defense or carry weapon. Here are the ballistics straight from their web site.

9mm 115gr, 1135 fps, 332 ft/lb of energy at the muzzle. (1030 fps, 271 ft/lb at 50 yards)
40 S&W, 165gr, 1175 fps, 506 ft/lb of energy at the muzzle. (1066 fps, 416 ft/lb at 50 yards)
45 ACP 185gr, 1000 fps, 411 ft/lb of energy at the muzzle. (936 fps, 360 ft/lb at 50 yards)

Although the velocities are somewhat close, the energy is about 35% more with the 40 S&W over the 9mm and nearly 20% more than the 45 ACP.

I personally prefer the 40 S&W over the 9mm because of it's hard hitting power.
 

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9mm wounds more than it kills...and in an era where crooks
are now held high as victims of cops, Brass wants wounds.
Same as the Dipsticks who say that wounding a man takes 3 out
of combat...well, not if you leave the unlucky lying on the ground
until after the fight's over. And you use a Travois so you only
have to use ONE man to take the wounded guy back...


wound.jpg


By the way, only do five at a time, if you do eight it'll tear up yer stomach.
 
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