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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
45-70 has been problematic
I loaded some rounds
Everything is in spec
The cartriges go through the chamber gauge perfectly
COAL is correct
.458 diameter projectiles and they won't feed in a Henry rifle..
It seems the projectile engages the lands and grooves which are sharp at the end of the chamber
Trunchiated cone factory loaded cartriges work fine
My home loads don't.
It's a Lee 340gr .458 RNFP
Loaded at the cap groove.
Has anyone has this same problem?
I called Henry
Their bore diameter is .450...
That's tight as hell for 45-70
Is this common? Has anyone else had this problem?


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.450 bore is way too tight if that is groove to groove diameter , even for Hornady Leverevolution Ammo which has a shorter case but uses a .458 diameter Jacketed bullet. I would contact them and send it back for a proper bore Barrel. SAAMI specs are .450 lands to lands and .457 groove Diameter.
 

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I cast that same bullet from the Lee mold and fire it in a Marlin Guide Gun since about 2008. Never had any problem whatsoever. I do not even size the bullets, just load them as cast. I load them at trapdoor level and some at 1600 fps, never a problem.

Have you ran them back through the sizing die after loading? I know you said they fit the gauge, just wonder if the gauge is as tight as the sizing die?

You said they do not feed, did you mean they will not go into the chamber, or will not cycle thru the action?
 

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.450" is too tight for a .458" bullet. Slug the bbl and measure the bore. It sounds like your bullet is engaging the rifling, preventing full chambering. Easily check this by trying to chamber one of your cast bullet rounds and then extracting. Look to see if rifling is engraved on the bullet. If so, either choose a shorter bullet, or ask Henry (or a local COMPETANT gunsmith) to lengthen the chamber. If the rifling does not engrave the bullet, I don't know what is happening. If you figure it out, post back here with the solution, please.
 

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the saami spec for the 45-70 is ridiculously tight.
i'm more surprised when someone actually finds a bullet that works than when they find one that doesn't.

anyhow you can rent a throat reamer for like 35 bucks and cut it by hand at home in like 5 turns.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Ok...
Here's what I did
I talked to the technical guy at Henry their bore is .450
And they do not ream the throat of their rifles.
So
If I have that done it's me.
The RNPF 340gr lee bullets are known for hanging up in Henry actions.
So I stead of seating the projectile to the provided crimp groove
I went 1 tenth of an inch past that
Did a 4 finger crimp instead of a roll crimp and
The problem is resolved.
These are functioning fine now..
When roll crimping it will cause a slight bulge in the case behind the crimp. That and the bullets engaging the rifling
The sharp edge of the rifling all contributed to these stoppages.
In The future I will size everything to .452
And seat them deeper on the case.
These Henry's have tight bores and tight chambers.
All these rounds all passed a chamber gauge.
So
It's not necessary to use
.458 diameter projectiles with a Henry rifle
That is excessive
So
From Now on I will use .452 lead projectiles.
And avoid roll crimping.
I find it hard to believe that such peculiarities will exsist inside of one caliber
I would like to try the remaining original bullets I loaded in a trap door or a sharps or a break open rifle to see If they will work fine...
Ill bet this is a Henry rifle only issue.
That's not a bad thing



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SO you need to mic the sizing ball on your 45-70 dies as it should be .456 -.457 and change it to a .451 or maybe just remove it when you resize the cases and see what the ID of the case mouth is. If I tried to load a .452 bullet in my 45-70 cases it would drop into the case.
 

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Ok...
Here's what I did
I talked to the technical guy at Henry their bore is .450
And they do not ream the throat of their rifles.
So
If I have that done it's me.
The RNPF 340gr lee bullets are known for hanging up in Henry actions.
So I stead of seating the projectile to the provided crimp groove
I went 1 tenth of an inch past that
Did a 4 finger crimp instead of a roll crimp and
The problem is resolved.
These are functioning fine now..
When roll crimping it will cause a slight bulge in the case behind the crimp. That and the bullets engaging the rifling
The sharp edge of the rifling all contributed to these stoppages.
In The future I will size everything to .452
And seat them deeper on the case.
These Henry's have tight bores and tight chambers.
All these rounds all passed a chamber gauge.
So
It's not necessary to use
.458 diameter projectiles with a Henry rifle
That is excessive
So
From Now on I will use .452 lead projectiles.
And avoid roll crimping.
I find it hard to believe that such peculiarities will exsist inside of one caliber
I would like to try the remaining original bullets I loaded in a trap door or a sharps or a break open rifle to see If they will work fine...
Ill bet this is a Henry rifle only issue.
That's not a bad thing



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I know i'm late to the party on this one.

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around this one. Are you saying the lands are .450" and the grooves are .457"? I would find it hard to believe that it's the other way around. That could open up a serious can of worms with pressure with such a tight barrel.
If the lands are 450 and the grooves are 457 I would still load as a minimum the 457 otherwise you're going to get leading due to an undersized bullet.

I guess I will cross Henry off my list of possible 45-70 rifles.
 

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the normal jacketed diameter for a 45-70 is 458.
that'd make the bore about 450 or so.
that makes sense sorta because back in the day the core for a paper patched 45-70 [you remember Quigley?] was 450 with 2 wraps of paper.
the black powder done the rest and made the small bullet fill the groove dimensions out.
 
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