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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
If the rim isn't too wide, I was wondering how well a nice "reduced-power" load would perform in an "N"-frame revolver. The concept of a "softer-shooting" big bore would likely make for a great "trail" gun. While a bit heavier than most, the larger revolver could be relied upon to take out larger threats without taxing the shooter.

It would also make for a "relaxing" round for open range days. Easy shooting, yet powerful enough to stop a human threat (should the need arise). The concept has merit, doesn't it?
 

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if you want to duplicate the 45 acp in the 45 colt you just need to drop the bullet weight and load it light.
i don't know how much lighter you can go than 14-K in pressure, or how much less recoil you need than a 45 colt.
but there's tons of options out there to go even lower.

how about a 165gr. bullet from a 45 colt case moseying along at about 700 fps.
that puts the recoil level lower than a 38 special in the heavier gun.

if you want less than that, crossman makes a pretty decent bb gun.
 

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I shoot Schofield all the time in my 45 Remington Conversion, as well as .44 Russian in my 44 Mag SAA. It's really pleasant, and easy for the kids to handle, but still makes a big hole.

As of right now, neither are practical, however, since the ammo waffles from unobtainable to too expensive. For some reason 44 mag is cheaper the 44 Special, and 44 Special is cheaper than Russian, and .45 Colt is increasingly hard to find and expensive, and 45 SC is moreso.
 

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I shoot Schofield all the time in my 45 Remington Conversion, as well as .44 Russian in my 44 Mag SAA. It's really pleasant, and easy for the kids to handle, but still makes a big hole.

As of right now, neither are practical, however, since the ammo waffles from unobtainable to too expensive. For some reason 44 mag is cheaper the 44 Special, and 44 Special is cheaper than Russian, and .45 Colt is increasingly hard to find and expensive, and 45 SC is moreso.
You can also shoot a relatively new cartridge, the.45 Cowboy Special. It's about the size of a 45 ACP, but is designed for cowboy shooting. It's not cheap ammo (nothing is), but it's cheaper than 45 LC or 45 Schofield. The .45 Cowboy Special is a .45 Long Colt case shortened to .45 ACP length to let cowboy action shooters load ammo with small charges of fast-burning powder, which is not safe to use in the large .45 Colt cases.
Brown Wood Font Wood stain Rectangle
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
The original replacement for the ACP in the 1917 S&W revolver was the .45 Auto Rim cartridge. These provided positive extraction without the need for either "full moon" or "half-moon" clips. Dad used to shoot these, but the .230-grain RNL are hard to find today. (I think that Remington stopped loading them a while ago).
 

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Buffalo Bore 45 Auto Rim +P 225gr, Wadcutter 20rd Box

Buffalo Bore 45 Auto Rim +P 225gr, Wadcutter 20rd Box
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Buffalo Bore Anti-Personnel 45 Auto Rim +P 225 grain Hard Cast Wadcutter Pistol and Handgun Ammo, 20/Box - 32C/20
Buffalo Bore Anti-Personnel 45 Auto Rim +P 225 grain Hard Cast Wadcutter Pistol and Handgun Ammo, 20/Box - 32C/20
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Buffalo Bore Ammunition 32C/20 45 Auto Rim +P 225GR Wadcutter 20Box/12Case

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Buffalo Bore Ammo 32A/20 45 Auto Rim +P 255GR Hard Cast Flat Nose 20Bx/12Cs

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Buffalo Bore Ammo 45 Auto Rim +P 255gr, Hard Cast Flat Nose 20rd Box

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks, brother. I looked at that 3 minutes ago. These would work in the Model 25. Im not sure, but the free bore may cause accuracy to suffer.
 

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.45 Auto Rim will not chamber in a .45 Colt because the rim is too thick. The .45 Cowboy Special will work, but accuracy is poor in the longer .45 Colt chamber. The Cowboy Special was intended to provide a rimmed cartridge for use in single-action revolvers having .45 ACP cylinders but not having adequate head clearance for the Auto Rim.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
.45 Auto Rim will not chamber in a .45 Colt because the rim is too thick. The .45 Cowboy Special will work, but accuracy is poor in the longer .45 Colt chamber. The Cowboy Special was intended to provide a rimmed cartridge for use in single-action revolvers having .45 ACP cylinders but not having adequate head clearance for the Auto Rim.
Got it, and thank you! This is fine, because the .45 Schofield brass reduces the free bore, thus enhancing accuracy.
 

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Got it, and thank you! This is fine, because the .45 Schofield brass reduces the free bore, thus enhancing accuracy.
Shooting .45 Schofield in a .45 Colt chamber compares to firing .38 Specials in a .357. It works Ok but you have to be careful about cleaning due to the " crud ring" produced. The reduced airspace improves ballistic uniformity with light loads. Accurate produces a heeled bullet with .476 driving band 1/16" wide above the crimp groove which helps maintain bullet alignment when shorter rounds are fired in the longer chamber. The Accurate 47-259H was designed originally for loading the 0.76" Starline .455 Mk2 cases with 3.5 grains of Bullseye for use in Webley top-breaks, but also is stellar in the .45 Schofield with 5 grains of Bullseye.

Tom makes a similar 37-150H for the .38 Long Colt and .38 Special for use in the cartridge conversion cylinders for .36 cap&ball revolvers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Shooting .45 Schofield in a .45 Colt chamber compares to firing .38 Specials in a .357. It works Ok but you have to be careful about cleaning due to the " crud ring" produced. The reduced airspace improves ballistic uniformity with light loads. Accurate produces a heeled bullet with .476 driving band 1/16" wide above the crimp groove which helps maintain bullet alignment when shorter rounds are fired in the longer chamber. The Accurate 47-259H was designed originally for loading the 0.76" Starline .455 Mk2 cases with 3.5 grains of Bullseye for use in Webley top-breaks, but also is stellar in the .45 Schofield with 5 grains of Bullseye.

Tom makes a similar 37-150H for the .38 Long Colt and .38 Special for use in the cartridge conversion cylinders for .36 cap&ball revolvers.
Yes, sir! This is an old story that bears repeating. The .45 Schofield and .45 Colt were old black powder cartridges that employed "heel" type lead bullets designed to flare, thus obdurate, within the bore.

The same "crud ring" appears within the longer chambers of the modern .32 (.312") .32 H&R and .327 Federal Magnum. Keeping them clean is essential to the versatility of these fine firearms.
 

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if the bullet velocities printed on those boxes are true, the .45 R is right up there with the 10mm and .45 Super! I always thought it was just a rimmed version of the .45 acp,:unsure:
 

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Yes, sir! This is an old story that bears repeating. The .45 Schofield and .45 Colt were old black powder cartridges that employed "heel" type lead bullets designed to flare, thus obdurate, within the bore.
may be an old story but it's as wrong as a soup sandwich.
the 45 colt has never been a heeled bullet, it has always been an inside lubricated cartridge.
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
if the bullet velocities printed on those boxes are true, the .45 R is right up there with the 10mm and .45 Super! I always thought it was just a rimmed version of the .45 acp,:unsure:
If you look carefully, you'll see that those are +p loads. Older (pre-1929) revolvers may not have the ability to take a steady diet of these carridges.
 

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That freebore issue is gun dependant and often more hype that truth. Example. The Taurus Judge and the Smith And Wesson Governor both take 410 shotgun and 45 Colt. The smallest one takes the 2.5 inch 410 shell, that means the cylinder is actually 3 inches long, the Taurus Magnum version is 3.5 inches long. The natural concern was that the free bore or free space in the cylinder in front of the 45 Colt was believed to be such that it would destroy accuracy. That is theory, not science. Gun writers make that stuff up and we all just naturally take it as gospel.

The accuracy of a bullet in a revolver is not much effected by the cylinder, it is more related to the bullet entering the forcing cone, and sealing in the barrel. The barrel then imparts the spin and determines the level of accuracy. Those two Guns can be expected to shoot under 3 inch groups at 25 yards. They are snub nose Guns.

Now, the Governor also takes the 45 acp in moon clips. The 45 acp looks tiny in that 3 inch cylinder, but the science is the same. The forcing cone and barrel determine most of the accuracy,. Again, about 3 inch groups at 25 yards, the same standard law enforcement sets for duty Guns.

Now, that long cylinder gives the explosion chamber more space and more time in that chamber, that allows more gas to escape at the cylinder/barrel gap. What that does is rob velocity. In my 1911 I can expect maybe 850 fps with standard ball ammo. Firing that same ammo in my Governor loses about 100 fps. In other words only about 750 fps. The most accurate and powerful 45 Colt I have found with standard pressure loads is the Hornady. Lever Evolution rounds. They get near factory velocities and shoot under 3 inches. These Guns have fixed sights and short barrels, not much better accuracy can be expected.

The Hornady load is my go to load for all 45 Colt handguns. I do have a Bisley, which takes the bear loads with power equal to 44 mag, a totally different animal.

Just saying, the long cylinders do not necessarily affect accuracy. I have also found, that just like every other gun, some ammo shoots very accurate and some does not. So, do not believe what people may say if they do not own them. I have six guns that shoot 45 Colt and load them from mild to wild. The real measurable difference at 25 yards is maybe 1 inch, and that is comparing a 5.5 inch Bisley Blackhawk to a Smith and Wesson Governor with a 2.75 inch barrel. FWIW.
 
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if you want to duplicate the 45 acp in the 45 colt you just need to drop the bullet weight and load it light.
i don't know how much lighter you can go than 14-K in pressure, or how much less recoil you need than a 45 colt.
but there's tons of options out there to go even lower.

how about a 165gr. bullet from a 45 colt case moseying along at about 700 fps.
that puts the recoil level lower than a 38 special in the heavier gun.

if you want less than that, crossman makes a pretty decent bb gun.
Or shoot round balls in either the 45 Colt or 45 acp at about that speed. . One of mine is a 45 acp aluminum case with 7.7cc of Green Dot Gas Tints and shades Magenta Font Electric blue
and a powder coated 141 grain round ball. Looks like this as I have posted several times. Steel cases are even better and brass work fine if that is all you have.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
That freebore issue is gun dependant and often more hype that truth. Example. The Taurus Judge and the Smith And Wesson Governor both take 410 shotgun and 45 Colt. The smallest one takes the 2.5 inch 410 shell, that means the cylinder is actually 3 inches long, the Taurus Magnum version is 3.5 inches long. The natural concern was that the free bore or free space in the cylinder in front of the 45 Colt was believed to be such that it would destroy accuracy. That is theory, not science. Gun writers make that stuff up and we all just naturally take it as gospel.

The accuracy of a bullet in a revolver is not much effected by the cylinder, it is more related to the bullet entering the forcing cone, and sealing in the barrel. The barrel then imparts the spin and determines the level of accuracy. Those two Guns can be expected to shoot under 3 inch groups at 25 yards. They are snub nose Guns.

Now, the Governor also takes the 45 acp in moon clips. The 45 acp looks tiny in that 3 inch cylinder, but the science is the same. The forcing cone and barrel determine most of the accuracy,. Again, about 3 inch groups at 25 yards, the same standard law enforcement sets for duty Guns.

Now, that long cylinder gives the explosion chamber more space and more time in that chamber, that allows more gas to escape at the cylinder/barrel gap. What that does is rob velocity. In my 1911 I can expect maybe 850 fps with standard ball ammo. Firing that same ammo in my Governor loses about 100 fps. In other words only about 750 fps. The most accurate and powerful 45 Colt I have found with standard pressure loads is the Hornady. Lever Evolution rounds. They get near factory velocities and shoot under 3 inches. These Guns have fixed sights and short barrels, not much better accuracy can be expected.

The Hornady load is my go to load for all 45 Colt handguns. I do have a Bisley, which takes the bear loads with power equal to 44 mag, a totally different animal.

Just saying, the long cylinders do not necessarily affect accuracy. I have also found, that just like every other gun, some ammo shoots very accurate and some does not. So, do not believe what people may say if they do not own them. I have six guns that shoot 45 Colt and load them from mild to wild. The real measurable difference at 25 yards is maybe 1 inch, and that is comparing a 5.5 inch Bisley Blackhawk to a Smith and Wesson Governor with a 2.75 inch barrel. FWIW.
Thank you. This was illuminating and makes a lot of sense. I appreciate your input and knowledge accrued through application and experience.
 

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I don't know what weight cast bullet dad uses, but he likes to seat a cast bullet over a 30gr pistol pyrdex pellet and shoot them out of his Blackhawk. I've shot a few and didn't think the recoil was bad.
 
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