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I can’t read that. I just want to stay dumb and keep liking the .308
I have too much time invested in learning it.
Jerry, this is me every day of the week, especially concerning the data.

If I was being dead practical in jumping ship it'd be to 7mm08 but I'd rather something nostalgic like 7x57 which kind the same thing.

But, 308 it will remain for me.
 

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I see articles all the time and hear about 6.5 Creedmore and I don't know anyone who actually shoots it. All of the long range guys I know have stuck with. 300 Win Mag, .308, or if they did change it was to go up to .338 Lapua.
 

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Terrible article in my opinion. The author isn't much more than an amateur shooter with a lot of scientific knowledge about reloading, I don't see much in the way of actual hunting experience in his background info. He rates the 6.5 as being superior to the .308 for hunting everything up to elk, I live on Montana and I can tell you that the 6.5 hasn't proven itself as a superior elk cartridge, in fact, an awful lot of people complain about how it's creating a problem with wounding elk that aren't being recovered and reducing the overall numbers of animals. I used to shoot (as an amateur) long range competition and I will agree that the 6.5 was kicking my .308's backside at 1000 yards but I honestly think that it was more a factor of the rifle and the shooter, not the cartridge.

Years ago Bryan Litz did an article about what was wrong with the .308 and his point was that the bullets were old style designs with comparatively low Ballistic Coefficients (BC) compared to the newer 6mm bullets. Once rifle chambers were designed to use a higher BC 30 caliber bullet and a higher BC bullet was designed, then the .308s were every bit as good at long range (and somewhat better in some regards) as the 6.5 CM.

As far as I'm concerned, the 6.5 CM is nice cartridge but it's not the super cartridge that most seem to think it is. It's a good option for a recoil sensitive person and it works well for animals as big as elk out to about 300 yards (for the average hunter), but it's not a reliable long range caliber on animals of that size and resilience. What's more, in my hunting area, grizzly bears and mountain lions are a possible problem and I don't want to rely on anything less than a .308 for defending myself against those kinds of threats.
 

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6.5 PRC?
Don't get me wrong, the .308 is excellent. I'll probably use my .308 Ruger American Predator for hunting until I quit. And everyone I know with a 6.5 Creedmore thinks it's awesome. A few of them shoot extreme long range with 6.5 Creedmore even (these guys think that 1k yards is "easy"). But, with what I've read about the new 6.5 PRC, I think that would be my choice.

Full disclosure, my 1k rifle is a built-up Remington 700 in .300 Win Mag. The Sierra 220 grain Matchkings bring new life to the .300 Win Mag. Long and stable.

Too many viable options.
 

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Again, a PRC of any caliber is just an improved chamber/bullet design that allows for slightly faster velocities and better ballistics, I'm still not a fan of a 6mm anything in the kind of hunting situations that I'm involved with. If you are a very accurate shooter then I'd say that caliber isn't as much of an issue, you can put the bullet where it needs to go. But in my experience the average hunter isn't that great of a shot, he might think he is but it just ain't so. I consider myself to be a better shot than most shooters and I don't expect to ever have the perfect hunting situation, too many things can go wrong so I err on the side of using more gun than I think I need. A 6.5 CM or PRC is perfectly capable of dropping an elk at any range if you can put the bullet where it needs to go, and those calibers are very accurate (and precise), but in a hunting situation there are just too many uncontrolled factors in play; the animal can move, the wind and temp can vary along the bullet's path, you can flinch because of a cramped muscle, etc. I know that I'm not going to shoot as well in the field as I do from a bench at my local shooting range.

6.5 PRC compared to a 6.5 CM in a competition situation...ehh, I'm not sure you'd see enough difference to justify the cost of building the gun and developing the loads. If you don't have either then sure, buy the PRC, it's a nice cartridge, but if you already own a 6.5 CM, then I doubt if I'd spend the money on a new rifle. I think that the 6.8 or 300 PRC would provide enough change in long range capability that I'd be interested in spending money on them but then that's just my opinion. On the other hand, I would never refuse a free 6.5 PRC if it were offered to me.
 

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He rates the 6.5 as being superior to the .308 for hunting everything up to elk, I live on Montana and I can tell you that the 6.5 hasn't proven itself as a superior elk cartridge, in fact, an awful lot of people complain about how it's creating a problem with wounding elk that aren't being recovered and reducing the overall numbers of animals.

I don't doubt what you are saying, but I do wonder about the context of the shooters relaying the information to you.

1. I'd be curious about bullet weight. A lot of the long range guys like these light, fast bullets. I wonder if they are using an appropriate bullet weight for hunting, or one that is appropriate to a fun range day.
I say that because, ballistically, the 6.5 Creedmoor is similar to the 6.5 Swede, with one notable exception - the Swede standard load was a heavier bullet (hunting loads were up to 160 grain, whereas 143 grain is the heaviest I have seen through my shop for the Creedmoor). We know historically that the 6.5 is one of the "Big Five" cartridges, meaning it was considered effective on elephant, rhino, buffalo, lion and leopard.

2. What ranges are we talking about? I hear a lot of people talking about hunting in Montana and surrounding states, and some of the long shots available to hunters. Are these people going beyond the terminal window for their cartridge?
My only hunting has been in Alabama, and around here no one wants to amble a quarter mile or more across the countryside to get a kill unless they are young and stupid. That is the reason long range cartridges sort of baffle me in terms of hunting in this area. Most deer can be gotten within bow range, and almost all are within 30-30 range.
I wonder if these guys are thinking they have a long range cartridge, and they want to tell the story about getting a buck at extreme range, rather than being intelligent and getting a guaranteed kill.
 

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The 308 Winchester is a great cartridge within the parameters in which it was designed to shoot. 1k yard target shooting isn't one of its strong points. The long action 30 caliber cartridges are much better suited for that job, but with added recoil in the mix.
I shot a couple different 300 WM rifles long range for many years, but even with 17 pound rifles, the recoil will wear you down shooting all day competitions.

I built my first 6.5 Creedmoor in 2009 and really liked what it did in long range performance. I shoot out to 1793 yards with both of my custom 6.5 Creedmoor's, and have a lot of fun doing it. I also shoot my 6.5-06 out to that distance with match bullets.

Hunting game is a different story. Elk are tough animal's, but I know people that have killed them with a 243 Winchester, and I've killed a couple with a 25-06. But, they were taken well within the ranges that the bullet and cartridge were designed to be used.
Hell, I know too many people that have wounded animals at 100 yards or less with Magnum cartridges, just because they either can't shoot very good or get buck fever and can't steady themselves in order to take a good shot.

I have always liked the 308 Winchester and still have one rifle chambered in it, but It rarely gets shot anymore. I'd rather shoot my 7mm-08, 6.5-06, 260 Remington, or my 6.5 Creedmoor's. I can't remember the last time I shot my 30-06.
There are no super / magical cartridges, each has it's own place and serves a purpose as long as it is being used within the shooting realm that it was designed for. Just as shooting targets is a lot different than hunting game with a different cartridge. You have to know each ones limits, and use the correct bullet to do the job.
 

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I really love the Creedmore and other long rage calibers on paper, but I only hunt 300 yards and in. I keep circling back to intermediate calibers.
Yeah, your part of the state is a lot like mine - hills, hollers, woods and briars. We're lucky to see 300 yards in a straight line unless we know someone with a shooting house overlooking their field.
 

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I have rifles chambered for both cartridges and at least on deer sized game I can see no practical difference in terminal effectiveness. The Creedmoor shoots a little flatter at long range but I would say you’re comparing an apple to an apple.
 

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Here's my take on it. Since I have both and generally don't shoot much past 100 yards, it doesn't really matter. The deer are just as dead regardless of which one I use.

Guess eventually it may boil down to components to reload and which is cheaper to reload for
 
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