Gun and Game Forum banner
1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
60 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have both a 300 stevens win mag model 200 and a Ruger M77 Mark II 7 mm mag in my stable of pups...other than that I have a 308 and AR15. I would like to chose one and build it up a bit to make it a better long range target gun. It might be used for hunting, but right now the aim is to shoot paper and steel. My goal would be to hit a target at 1000m. Might not reach that, but the process and challenge are often the most rewarding. Which gun should I choose? My guess is the first two would make the best candidate. And what can I do to improve it? I am setting aside $1K for a scope. My next priority would be recoil reduction (if that doesn't decrease accuracy). Maybe a muzzle brake? And a new trigger? Though i have read that a GS can adjust the pull on the stock to 2.5 pounds. Any other suggestions?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,854 Posts
Which one is the most accurate now? Scopes and triggers do not make a gun accurate, they just make it a little easier. Probably the only one I would consider us the 300 but only if it already shoots the best groups. If you do not reload you can never do well at 1000 yards or meters, you need to find a load with a high bc bullet and see what the best the gun will do. If you get 10 shot groups under one inch at 100 you are ready to move on. Use a lead sled so your current trigger or scope will not matter. Just strap it in go go slow..

Once you get the load and know the gun is accurate, then look at the scope and trigger issue. If you have not shot distance for groups you can use any scope to try out at say 300 yards where you still have minimal drop and get an idea how you will like it. Try it on a windy day because all matches happen on windy days. Also keep in mind that the fast bullet you shoot at 300 yards that only drifts 8 inches is not so fast at 1000 and run the numbers before you go so you can see if you want to spent all that time calculating if you take up long raange paper killing. Just a thought.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
60 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Which one is the most accurate now? Scopes and triggers do not make a gun accurate, they just make it a little easier. Probably the only one I would consider us the 300 but only if it already shoots the best groups. If you do not reload you can never do well at 1000 yards or meters, you need to find a load with a high bc bullet and see what the best the gun will do. If you get 10 shot groups under one inch at 100 you are ready to move on. Use a lead sled so your current trigger or scope will not matter. Just strap it in go go slow..

Once you get the load and know the gun is accurate, then look at the scope and trigger issue. If you have not shot distance for groups you can use any scope to try out at say 300 yards where you still have minimal drop and get an idea how you will like it. Try it on a windy day because all matches happen on windy days. Also keep in mind that the fast bullet you shoot at 300 yards that only drifts 8 inches is not so fast at 1000 and run the numbers before you go so you can see if you want to spent all that time calculating if you take up long raange paper killing. Just a thought.
Thank you! Reloading is the next thing on my plate. Your advice is very practical. Can I assume that a good long range scope would fit both the Stevens and Ruger?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
804 Posts
Neither of those rifles will make a good " Long Range" rifle if they have the factory sporter contour barrels on them. The barrels will heat up after a couple shots and your shots won't be consistent.
The Stevens would be the simplest and cheapest to change into a decent long range gun since it's just a basic version of the Savage 110 platform. Good stock's, barrel's, and trigger's are available for them.

If you are serious about wanting to shoot good at longer distances, you will really need to hand load your ammo. Factory ammo will only get you so far, and unless you can find a brand & bullet weight that your barrel shoots good, you will just be wasting time & money. Then, when you find an ammo that your gun likes, you will need to buy as much of the same lot # of it as you can - think cases of it!

Either of those cartridges (7mm Mag or 300 WM) are very good for long range, but they come with a price - Recoil.
I shot long range with a 300 WM for many years, and did very well with it. But, Shooting 100 rounds a day in matches will wear on you, and my match rifle weighed 17 pounds. I no longer shoot long range with the 300 WM, I switched all my long range gun's over to 6.5mm cartridges - 6.5-06, 260 Remington, and 6.5 Creedmoor and have never looked back.
I shoot out to a mile pretty regular, and can shoot any of my guns all day long without feeling like I got in a fight with a gorilla the next day.

Shooting long range is addicting, and a lot of fun. Its also can get very expensive, because once you get into it a factory rifle just won't do it for you, and a good long range scope will cost as much if not more than the price of a custom rifle.
Good luck on your adventure!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,854 Posts
Thank you! Reloading is the next thing on my plate. Your advice is very practical. Can I assume that a good long range scope would fit both the Stevens and Ruger?
Th target scope will gave elevated turrets so that you can spin them to quickly meet the wind speed and elevation changes. It will be much longer than a hunting scope and will need a shade for sunny days where you deal with glare and mirage. In the cheaper brands, think Vortex, one ways they increase light transmission is simply to use a bigger main tube. While a hunting scope may be 1 inch or 30mm, companies like Vortex will use a much bigger tube, like 34mm. Then you will ned to decide on the power that works for you, think in terms of 20x , 24 x or more and 50 to 56mm as to the size of the objective bell out front. They are big. I use a target scope on my primary deer gun, a 257 Wby, but I do not drag it through brush and I hunt from a fixed spot.

Any scope will work on any gun, the target scope just not the best for hunting if you do not normally shoot over 300yards. Txhillibilty has extensive experience with building long range rigs, I suggest going back and looking at many of his prior posts on other conversations. He has some good pictures of what a long range rig should look like.

Again, I suggest starting to reload before you make the big jump into equipment, and like I said before, spend a day shooting only at 300yards with the guns you already have. Long range is about precision, at every stage of the game, otherwise it does not work too well. Good luck and keep us p0sted.
 

·
Registered
I love any and all firearms, also love archery hunting.
Joined
·
350 Posts
I love my 300 win mag and it always gets the job done. I would put a heavy bull barrel on the 300 and then go from there.

I will add, that although I have shot long ranges, especially while in the Army, I am not a long range shooter. I try and keep all of my hunting to within 300 yard or less, with that being said, I know a few snipers who swear by the 300 win mag.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,282 Posts
I opted for 300 win mag for my long range rifle, but either would do fine I bet. My Rem 700 in 300 Win Mag is extremely accurate with 220 grain Sierra Match Kings pushed out near max velocity. I also put it in a McMillan stock to add weight and rigidity. Combined with a good scope, bipod, and rear monopod it does well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: neophyte

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,854 Posts
I opted for 300 win mag for my long range rifle, but either would do fine I bet. My Rem 700 in 300 Win Mag is extremely accurate with 220 grain Sierra Match Kings pushed out near max velocity. I also put it in a McMillan stock to add weight and rigidity. Combined with a good scope, bipod, and rear monopod it does well.
I once hunted with the fellow who developed the Navy sniper rifle as the key guy in the Nav group. Forgot his name now. It was the late 80s and they put up a camp next to mine, about 15 miles from the nearest paved road in NE Wyoming, on the Thunder Basin Bational Grassland, about 1/4 million acres of boonies. His 2 hunting buddies were retired admirals. When they learned I was an active duty guy hunting alone, they invited me over for drinks and talk around the campfire at night. One of those memorable hurting trips. I took a nice 4 x 4 mule deer, a decent antelope with 14.5 inch horns, not bad for public land, and a bonus doe, so a good week for me. But the real bonus for me was learning about the development of the Navy sniper rifle platforms,basically Rem 700s in 308 and 300Win mag.

The new one then was the 300 to give added range to the 308. Ii think the problem was the longer ranges in places like Afghanistan and other mountain terrain countries. I think we had advisors in Afghanistan at the time. Anyway, the 'sniper rifle' was fairly new and not everyone knew what we know now. It was a Rem 700 in 300 Win mag with the McMillian stock, which was the only one any serious long range shooter would use back then.

All three of them were shooting Rem 700s with the McMillian stocks and all three were shooting I think, 6.5 Shooting Times Western, a wildcat back then. I think they still had to form their own brass and I was surprised that their ammo was nickel plated. That was pretty rare to see Nickle plated ammo back then. I recall that one of the reasons for their hunt was to test the 6.5 STW load in the windy conditions of the high desert. I recall they had a reloading press with them and discussing reloading. I recall asking what turned out to be a dumb question. The question was ''do you weigh the powder charge on every load, or just rely on the powder measure?'''' They all laughed, and kindly said that for truly long range loads a powder measure might well be off an entire grain, which would not be acceptable at truly long range. After, I realized what a rookie I must be, I carefully framed my questions and learned a lot from them. They were guys on the cutting edge of the long range shooting that would later be what made kills beyond one mile for many of our guys in harms way. They were using Siccoro buckets as I recall, also new back then..

I do not wiegh every load, except for my 257 Weatherby hunting loads. Those few boxes of ammo will have every case trimmed to the exact size, be loaded with match primers, and the trickle device will make sure that every load gets the same amount of powder.

To the OP. If you are going to shoot 1000 yards or beyond, you really need that degree of precision in your ammo, it is just as important as your barrel, your trigger, or your scope. IMHO

Anyway, thought folks might enjoy that story. Those guys were kind to this rookie. By the way, I do not recall that they killed anything, at least by the time I left.. But that 6.5 STW is now a legit cartridge.
 

·
Global Warming Enthusiast
Joined
·
4,253 Posts
Well, to be honest I agree with Txhillbilly that if you have hunting barrels on them you'll struggle with good groups... Is your .308 a hunting rifle? If so, put a scope on that and hunt. Sell the other two and buy a 700 action and build your rifle and start handloading for it. A 700 action you'll find EVERYTHING aftermarket for it, it's the Chevy small block of the rifle world. The other two rifles, you'll likely have nothing left of the original rifle anyway so start working with something you can find parts everywhere for. I know it sounds drastic, but you'll end up doing this anyway... just trying to save you some frustration and money. You don't want to start building a hot rod with a 409 oval port if you get my drift. So
of the two calibers, I would choose the .300 WM but I would want it in a 700 pattern.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,716 Posts
Many good suggestions. You could work the Stevens up - a bull barrel will be most affordable in that option. Equally worthy of consideration is selling some of your stock to get a Remington 700 or the newer Ruger Precision Rifle or some such thing. .300 Win Mag is sort of the 'I aint as good as I once was but I was good once. . .' offering. .338 Lapua and the 6.5 offerings each have their fans in the game these days. .308 is the little engine that could (sometimes - okay at 1,000 but don't try the mile).

Don't even waste time with an AR15 on long range. The sights won't dial up high enough.

A story from some years ago, perhaps 97 or 98: Young Shane was working as a 'volunteer' for the Nat'l Matches at Camp Perry (it was better money than delivering the newspapers). He worked his first couple of days on Rodriguez Range on the phones. When it was time to shoot the 1,000 yard finals he was placed on the lines at Viale on the low numbers, in the block which was serving the USAF Marksmanship team, among others. Those chaps were trying to fire the match with their ARs. They shot a few times and the target was not going down for service. They yelled out to young Shane, "Mark XX." He called down to the pit and relayed the request. The pit called back and replied, "They have to hit the target before we can mark it." Young Shane relayed this information to their team and fell under the wrath of a Senior Airforce Enlisted Member. Through the back and forth, and much berating, it was discovered that their shooters were hitting the sandbags which weighted the target frames in those days - over 20" low. The Air Force team leader then began berating his guys, rather than young Shane, about whether they had remembered to dial in their dope on the sights. They must have calculated half MOA instead of 1/4 or something but they were a disaster that day. They never did hit any really good shots.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,508 Posts
I have both a 300 stevens win mag model 200 and a Ruger M77 Mark II 7 mm mag in my stable of pups...other than that I have a 308 and AR15. I would like to chose one and build it up a bit to make it a better long range target gun.
Slugfest, you got a lot of really good feedback, have you given it any thought on your way forward?
As for me here in Ohio, we can only hunt deer with straight walled cartridges. I have no inclination to shoot beyond 200 yards and prefer 100 yard ranges to reduce the amount of walking back and forth.
Also, I like reducing my footprint with the quantity of gear it requires to do long range shooting. You might have a better process to get stuff out to the range. Now I only take one or two rifles during an outing or two (max three) handguns. And, I get more enjoyment that way.
Again, I am only sharing my way of doing things gained from many years of trial and error. My wish for you is to do what gives you enjoyment and personal satisfaction...and know that things might change over time.
I will offer something to consider:
Assess your skills
Do you have a budget to start with and a budget line to sustain your hobby over the years
How addicted are you to perfection - will you keep trying or get frustrated and lose interest if you don't consistently hit the center dot of the bullseye (the bullseye at a 1000 yards is as big as a paper plate)
Do you have friends that share the same passion for they same type of shooting - it's tough when you are a loaner and you want to talk about your sport...a like minded group keeps you energized and striving to get better
And finally, there is a science and a range of costs to achieve accuracy...how accurate do you want to be will depend on what you're willing to give up - because it will take a lot of your time, money, time with family/kids...this list varies by individual but it will cost you one way or the other. Keep your real priorites in mind.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,854 Posts
Many good suggestions. You could work the Stevens up - a bull barrel will be most affordable in that option. Equally worthy of consideration is selling some of your stock to get a Remington 700 or the newer Ruger Precision Rifle or some such thing. .300 Win Mag is sort of the 'I aint as good as I once was but I was good once. . .' offering. .338 Lapua and the 6.5 offerings each have their fans in the game these days. .308 is the little engine that could (sometimes - okay at 1,000 but don't try the mile).

Don't even waste time with an AR15 on long range. The sights won't dial up high enough.

A story from some years ago, perhaps 97 or 98: Young Shane was working as a 'volunteer' for the Nat'l Matches at Camp Perry (it was better money than delivering the newspapers). He worked his first couple of days on Rodriguez Range on the phones. When it was time to shoot the 1,000 yard finals he was placed on the lines at Viale on the low numbers, in the block which was serving the USAF Marksmanship team, among others. Those chaps were trying to fire the match with their ARs. They shot a few times and the target was not going down for service. They yelled out to young Shane, "Mark XX." He called down to the pit and relayed the request. The pit called back and replied, "They have to hit the target before we can mark it." Young Shane relayed this information to their team and fell under the wrath of a Senior Airforce Enlisted Member. Through the back and forth, and much berating, it was discovered that their shooters were hitting the sandbags which weighted the target frames in those days - over 20" low. The Air Force team leader then began berating his guys, rather than young Shane, about whether they had remembered to dial in their dope on the sights. They must have calculated half MOA instead of 1/4 or something but they were a disaster that day. They never did hit any really good shots.
That's funny. I have a hard time thinking a marksmanship unit would make that mistake, so that makes it funny. I spent my first few military years in the Army and later went to the Air Force where I finished my career. The day I showed up in the AF, I already had 3 expert ribbons which just meant 3 little oak leafs on the ribbon. So they sent me to qualify with the Model 15 SW 38 And M16..Piece of cake just a couple days off for fun at the range. They thought I was some sort of master shooter. For gun people, an expert military rating just means you shoot pretty good, nothing spectacular.. I ended up getting an expert rating with 7 military weapons. Really impresses the grand kids,lol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,508 Posts
Any other suggestions?
Slugfest, I have seen these units used at the range and they are most impressive. If you crave supreme accuracy above all else, watch the video. And be prepared to hear about accuracy gauged by a Gnat Hair.
This next video would be a good one for Bench Shooting which might be more in line with what you might like to do.
 

·
Wonderment :)
Joined
·
36,174 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,854 Posts
RetiredFreedomfighter: Sir; Adding for a refresher


Remington Premier Scirocco Bonded (RPSB) Ammunition Still Top Pick for Hunters
Remington loads Swift's bonded Scirocco bullet for effective and reliable terminal performance.
Thanks for posting that. Interesting article. I have never loaded the Sicorro but always heard they were good. I found this comment interesting.
"As with most bonded bullets, you should not expect top notch accuracy from these loads, but all exhibited acceptable hunting accuracy and two exceeded it"'

I load several bonded bullets and have not had issues with them. So maybe it us something specific to them. They tested 4 calibers in that article. Worth the read.
 
  • Like
Reactions: neophyte

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,874 Posts
I'd pick 300 Win Mag because of a lot of stupid reasons. 300 Win Mag and I were born the same year. It sounds heaps cooler to say.

7mm Rem mag would no doubt be more accurate in the same way 7mm'08 is over 308.

I'm not that good a shot, minute of dinner plate will suffice, thanks.
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top