Gun and Game Forum banner
21 - 40 of 45 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,475 Posts
Did you get that idea or did you find it like that? Has to be an American job because any self-respecting Brit would have converted it to .577/450 Martini Henry :p
Navy Arms and Gibbs both used to do them, and there was another company, too. Golden State, I think - the same company that made the Lee Speed clone - but I am not sure.

Gibbs might still make 45-70 Enfields. Maybe five years ago I saw three of them in the boxes at a gun show. They were all made from Ishapore rifle parts.

One of these companies even converted Enfields to .444 Marlin, which is basically the love child of .303 Brit and 45-70.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,160 Posts
Did you get that idea or did you find it like that? Has to be an American job because any self-respecting Brit would have converted it to .577/450 Martini Henry :p
Yes I bought it right from Navy Arms/Gibbs Rifle Company. Its the same company and they are in Martinsburg West Virginia. They only did so many conversions of various Military surplus rifles like Mauser and 03A3 rifles also. I have only saw three of these rifles before and finally got the chance like 15 years ago to get a newly done one with the Navy Arms barrel and iron sights. Slight alteration to the mag and instead of holding 10 rounds it holds like 5-6 rounds. The company was bought out about 9 years ago.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,550 Posts
Navy Arms and Gibbs both used to do them, and there was another company, too. Golden State, I think - the same company that made the Lee Speed clone - but I am not sure.

Gibbs might still make 45-70 Enfields. Maybe five years ago I saw three of them in the boxes at a gun show. They were all made from Ishapore rifle parts.

One of these companies even converted Enfields to .444 Marlin, which is basically the love child of .303 Brit and 45-70.
This is really interesting stuff.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,475 Posts
Yes I bought it right from Navy Arms/Gibbs Rifle Company. Its the same company and they are in Martinsburg West Virginia.
...sort of? I had heard for years that Navy Arms, Gibbs and Old Western Scrounger were the same company. There is Val Forgett's company Navy Arms, and Ross Gibbs' company, Gibbs Rifles, and Dave Cumberland's OWS. They were all friends, and the companies overlapped, and they are all in the same town, but for one reason or another they were all distinct with different CEOs, business licenses, and incorporation documents. I do know Forgett was a major partner in Gibb's business. When Forgett died, Gibbs took over Navy Arms. When Cumberland retired, control of his company went completely to Navy Arms.
It might be more apt to say that the three were a corporate alliance where each member had a share in the others' company. Now they are definitely a single company in the hands of that last man standing.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
26,612 Posts
The Turk ammo was always my favorite. Years ago I would buy it for $59.99 for a 1,400 rd. crate on stripper clips in bandoliers. Over 2 or 3 years time that price crept up to $79.99 before almost all of that surplus disappeared here in the DFW area of north Texas. I bought at least 10 crates during that time period as well as several of the Turk Mauser rifles. A couple of my friends bought plenty of that ammo also so we did a whole bunch of shooting back then. The failure rate on the ammo was less than 1% in most rifles which isn't bad for stuff that was 5 or 6 decades old. Some people claim that the Turk ammo was unreasonably hot but I never had any with signs of high pressure such as flattened primers, difficult extraction, etc. Compared to modern US manufactured ammo by Winchester or Remington it was hot, but not compared to other 8MM Mauser surplus stuff or modern 8mm ammo loaded in Europe. I think I still have 2 bandoliers of that Turk surplus in my stack of stuff.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
26,612 Posts
...sort of? I had heard for years that Navy Arms, Gibbs and Old Western Scrounger were the same company. There is Val Forgett's company Navy Arms, and Ross Gibbs' company, Gibbs Rifles, and Dave Cumberland's OWS. They were all friends, and the companies overlapped, and they are all in the same town, but for one reason or another they were all distinct with different CEOs, business licenses, and incorporation documents. I do know Forgett was a major partner in Gibb's business. When Forgett died, Gibbs took over Navy Arms. When Cumberland retired, control of his company went completely to Navy Arms.
It might be more apt to say that the three were a corporate alliance where each member had a share in the others' company. Now they are definitely a single company in the hands of that last man standing.
Lee, there's a little OWS history at this link. (mini hijack) o_O

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,703 Posts
The Yugo ammo, in general IS PPU, you'll just see that reflected with the old cyrillic ППУ or ПП. There was more than one Czech factory, but most Czech ammo is S&B.


I forgot about Polish ammo, btw. It is usually really good, but like the Austrian ammo, it has mostly dried up. In a pinch Nicaraguan and Ecuadorian ammo are OK if they do not show signs of poor storage, these often pop up with nickle-coated bullets, and sometimes they have steel cores.

I found a guide to headstamps that might be of help, maybe 1/2 of the list applies to 8mm Mauser thanks to the Wehrmacht.

I was cleaning up some 303 rounds and noticed that old cyrillic stamped on the bottom of the brass. Where were this possibly come from?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
325 Posts
Discussion Starter · #31 ·
Well guys I truly appreciate the insight! I went ahead and got a sample of two variants. 150 rounds of M49 196 grain Yugo produced in 81, and 100 rounds of154 grain Romanian produced in 77.
I’m pretty excited to try out the 154 grain stuff, as I’d like to not get beat up EVERY time I want to shoot more than 20 rounds.
Is the gnarly recoil characteristic of yugos only or do all 8mm Mauser thump like that?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
325 Posts
Discussion Starter · #33 ·
They all kick hard with hot ammo. The kick is a function of the rounds power and the buttstock. Metal hurts worse than a sportier with some rubber on the butt.
That’s kinda what I was thinking was the case. I might just have to get a rubber slip on pad for longer range sessions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,475 Posts
I was cleaning up some 303 rounds and noticed that old cyrillic stamped on the bottom of the brass. Where were this possibly come from?
if it looks a bit like nny, yes. I don't know of any other East Bloc country that used a Cyrillic stamp for British ammo. Bosnia made some .303, but it features the Bosnia-Herzegoviniam Crest.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,475 Posts
Well guys I truly appreciate the insight! I went ahead and got a sample of two variants. 150 rounds of M49 196 grain Yugo produced in 81, and 100 rounds of154 grain Romanian produced in 77.
I’m pretty excited to try out the 154 grain stuff, as I’d like to not get beat up EVERY time I want to shoot more than 20 rounds.
Is the gnarly recoil characteristic of yugos only or do all 8mm Mauser thump like that?
8 Mauser, in a 98 carbine military rifle is near the top of my list in the most miserable rifle/cartridge combos on recoil. Various 98-style carbines in 8 Mauser, the 1903 with M1 Ball, the 43 Spanish out of a Rolling block, the M91-30 in 7.62x54R firing surplus ammo from prone - all way more miserable than necessary.

I am a firm believer that the 7mm Mauser is superior in most ways to it's larger brother - especially in terms of recoil.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
325 Posts
Discussion Starter · #36 ·
8 Mauser, in a 98 carbine military rifle is near the top of my list in the most miserable rifle/cartridge combos on recoil. Various 98-style carbines in 8 Mauser, the 1903 with M1 Ball, the 43 Spanish out of a Rolling block, the M91-30 in 7.62x54R firing surplus ammo from prone - all way more miserable than necessary.

I am a firm believer that the 7mm Mauser is superior in most ways to it's larger brother - especially in terms of recoil.
A lot of “nice to know” in there. I recently inherited a handful of rifles. An Egyptian rolling block in 43 Spanish, Mexican rolling block in 7mm mauser, and a Ruger #1 in 7mm mauser.

The 7x57 rifles I have been chomping at the bit to go shoot. I have zero 7x57 experience but I seem to hear nothing but good things.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,475 Posts
A lot of “nice to know” in there. I recently inherited a handful of rifles. An Egyptian rolling block in 43 Spanish, Mexican rolling block in 7mm mauser, and a Ruger #1 in 7mm mauser.

The 7x57 rifles I have been chomping at the bit to go shoot. I have zero 7x57 experience but I seem to hear nothing but good things.
An Egyptian in .43 Spanish? Most were in 43 Egyptian, which is a different round altogether, and not compatible.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
325 Posts
Discussion Starter · #38 ·
An Egyptian in .43 Spanish? Most were in 43 Egyptian, which is a different round altogether, and not compatible.
Upon further investigation of the spreadsheet my grandpa compiled of his collection. The rifle IS definitely Egyptian. But the caliber listed is “.43 Spanish ?”
I’ll take that question mark as it is PROBABLY in .43 Egyptian, the guy he got it from said Spanish and my grandpa was skeptical.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
525 Posts
Recommend slugging the bore if you're unsure of actual bore diameter on any rifle. Mauser barrels were originally .311 Lebel and were redesigned to .323 spire point. Some of those old guns are still out there, better safe than sorry.
 
21 - 40 of 45 Posts
Top