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About 922r..

Discussion in 'SKS' started by SKS NOOB, Aug 27, 2014.

  1. SKS NOOB

    SKS NOOB G&G Evangelist

    I was looking for some clearer explanations to how many parts a SKS has that are classified as "foreign". Of course, in it's original configuration, the whole rifle is, but how many of the 20 parts listed truly apply? Somebody from Survivor's SKS forums actually e-mailed the ATF and got a response listing the number of parts that applied. The answer was 15 for the Yugoslavian (because of the grenade launcher) and 14 for all others. Here is the link below and I would request that this be added as an addendum to the SKS legalities sticky.

    http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=27678.0
     
  2. blaster

    blaster G&G Evangelist

    clear as mud.
     
    Kad Skirata and TACAV like this.

  3. SKS NOOB

    SKS NOOB G&G Evangelist

    It only clears things up about a SKS. Not the other rifles. THAT much should be clear.
     
  4. GSFixit

    GSFixit Curmudgeon In Training

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    SKS NOOB likes this.
  5. SKS NOOB

    SKS NOOB G&G Evangelist

    That was my point of putting that link up. Somebody had correspondence with someone from the ATF on what parts and how many TOTAL that SKS has unmodified and unchanged. Basically a TAPCO mag and 1 or 2 more parts would make it legal once you started adding, or even taking away, parts.

    Personally, I hate 922r just as much as you guys. I feel it is pointless and is only a burden on law abiding gun owners. Maybe we should start a movement to get rid of it since it only deals with importation. Which has nothing to do with stopping CRIME.
     
    GSFixit likes this.
  6. Laufer

    Laufer G&G Enthusiast

    Unless somebody creates a really high profile with their shooting habits, or gets into unrelated (nothing to do with guns..) trouble with the law, the ATF will never even know about non-compliance, unless discovered after a gun transaction.

    After a gun is sold/traded, somebody might later (wanting to impress others) open their big mouth inside a gun shop or shooting range if they can count parts, as some people don't think about the 'big picture'.
     
    SKS NOOB likes this.
  7. Big Dog

    Big Dog Retired IT Dinosaur Wrangler Forum Contributor

    Isn't 922r only concerned with C&R status and importation? If I modify my SKS without the requisite 'US parts', and I take it to the range, it has NOT become an illegal weapon. I just cannot sell it as a C&R gun. I see this as only a problem in the non-Free States - California, NY, Illinois, etc. In a Free State, it doesn't matter for the owner.
     
  8. GSFixit

    GSFixit Curmudgeon In Training

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    TAPCO has a really good explanation of 922(r). It's a federal law, not a state law.
    http://www.tapco.com/section922r/

    "Title 18 Chapter 44 Section 922(r) of the United States Code, defined further by Title 27 Part 478.39 of the Code of Federal Regulation (CFR), ambiguously restricts semiautomatic rifles and shotguns to no more 10 imported parts from a list of 20 parts."

    922(r) is one of the more confusing aspects of federal law we deal with. It's really not about C&R it's about imported semi auto weapons, or imported parts.

    Basically, you can't "assemble" a semi with too many foreign parts, or modify an imported semi unless you replace enough parts with American made parts to meet the 10 of 20 parts rule.

    The list of parts that trigger 922(r) varies by weapon because not every weapon has every one of the listed parts.

    The Gun Wiki has great parts count calculators that show various families of firearms and which parts can be done, or need to be done.
    http://thegunwiki.com/Gunwiki/LegalFederal922rParts

    Here is the compliance calculator for an SKS.
    http://thegunwiki.com/Gunwiki/BuildSKSVerifyCompliance
     
  9. Big Dog

    Big Dog Retired IT Dinosaur Wrangler Forum Contributor

    I still don't see why it applies to weapons already owned. I have no C&R license. So why the "H" can't I put a 30-round detachable mag onto my SKS without enraging the Men In black? This applies to C&R status, not private ownership.
     
  10. GSFixit

    GSFixit Curmudgeon In Training

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    Sorry, but 922(r) isn't related to C&R at all, unless you are modifying a C&R firearm. If you were to modify a C&R semi auto firearm, you would lose the C&R status and 922(r) comes into play.

    So, for example, under current interpretations, as crazy as it seems, if you were to buy a C&R semi auto made in Russia, and replaced the original wood stock with a synthetic stock, you would lose your C&R status, and also bring 922(r) into play, requiring you to replace a sufficient number of the parts from the list in the law, that you have 10 or fewer of the listed parts left in the rifle that are imported. By the way, the magazine can count as, depending on the rifle, either 2 or 3 compliance parts (magazine body, floor plate, and follower.).

    If it was C&R, and in it's original configuration, and you don't modify it, then 922(r) wouldn't apply.

    On the VEPR AK-47 that I was going to buy, they are made in Russia, and the dealer replaces the furniture with American aftermarket wood or synthetic stocks and hand guards. Since that invokes 922(r), they also change out the trigger group (3 parts), muzzle brake, and pistol grip, with American made parts to get to the required count.

    I know, it's just plain crazy.

    The BATFE considers any modification of a semi auto firearm made with foreign parts to be "assembling" a firearm, if the modification involves the listed parts.

    From the TAPCO page:
    Below is the wording from 18 U.S.C. § 922(r) and 27 CFR 478.39

    18 U.S.C. § 922(r)
    It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) of this chapter as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes except that this subsection shall not apply to -
    (1) the assembly of any such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or agency thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or
    (2) the assembly of any such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Attorney General.

    27 CFR 478.39 - ASSEMBLY OF NON-SPORTING SHOTGUNS AND SEMIAUTOMATIC RIFLES FROM IMPORTED PARTS
    (a) No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph (c) of this section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes.
    (b) The provisions of this section shall not apply to:
    (1) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or agency thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or
    (2) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Director under the provisions of Sec. 178.151; or
    (3) The repair of any rifle or shotgun which had been imported into or assembled in the United States prior to November 30, 1990, or the replacement of any part of such firearm.
    (c) For purposes of this section, the term imported parts are:
    (1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings
    (2) Barrels
    (3) Barrel extensions
    (4) Mounting blocks (trunions)
    (5) Muzzle attachments
    (6) Bolts
    (7) Bolt carriers
    (8) Operating rods
    (9) Gas pistons
    (10) Trigger housings
    (11) Triggers
    (12) Hammers
    (13) Sears
    (14) Disconnectors
    (15) Butt stocks
    (16) Pistol grips
    (17) Forearms, hand guards
    (18) Magazine bodies
    (19) Followers
    (20) Floor plates
     
    SKS NOOB likes this.
  11. SKS NOOB

    SKS NOOB G&G Evangelist


    In the end, it isn't about gun safety or whatnot. It is about gun CONTROL and about making it too expensive to take a foreign or CHEAP foreign military surplus rifle and add "furniture" to it for tactical purposes in a civilian market. If I were to be executive order happy, getting 922r executive ordered out would be one of the first things I would do.
     
    GSFixit likes this.
  12. GSFixit

    GSFixit Curmudgeon In Training

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    I believe you hit that nail right on the head. 922(r) is, in my opinion, one of the craziest laws we have. What difference does it make what country all the parts were manufactured in if I want a different stock or trigger group?

    Just plain crazy.
     
  13. SKS NOOB

    SKS NOOB G&G Evangelist

    I had one guy tell me it was to ensure the quality of parts. This was a guy that worked in a gun shop. Woe be to him, I says.
     
  14. Big Dog

    Big Dog Retired IT Dinosaur Wrangler Forum Contributor

    An unenforceable law, crafted by nitwits. How to tell if a gun violates 922r or not? Will a cop seeing me at the range make me field-strip the gun, and look at the parts? How would he know which are original or not? What if I stamp "MADE IN USA" on the parts in question? The legal beagles couldn't tell one way or another.
     
  15. Laufer

    Laufer G&G Enthusiast

    Big Dog:
    Unless somebody were to modify the imported configuration the wrong way, who would know, except for people 'blabbing' about it to others?
    Other than such a gun being sold to somebody who decides to blab about an alteration, the ATF would Never know.

    I doubt that only adding a Tech Sight would make an SKS tactical, if that Is All that is done to it.
     
    SKS NOOB likes this.
  16. SKS NOOB

    SKS NOOB G&G Evangelist

    The sights, from what I've read, can be changed without worrying about 922r. All good
     
  17. Big Dog

    Big Dog Retired IT Dinosaur Wrangler Forum Contributor

    Sights don't concern me. Stock and magazine changes do. I just think 922r is blown way out of proportion to it's limited importance. But, my SKS is in as-issued configuration and will remain so.
     
  18. GSFixit

    GSFixit Curmudgeon In Training

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    I never have been able to figure out the point of 922(r). I mean really, some enterprising soul could literally just stamp "Made in U.S.A." on all the parts they don't want to change when doing a stock replacement, and how would anyone ever prove they weren't?

    It just makes no sense to me.
     
    blaster and Big Dog like this.
  19. Big Dog

    Big Dog Retired IT Dinosaur Wrangler Forum Contributor

    Exactly my point. It's unenforceable and serves no purpose.
     
    blaster and SKS NOOB like this.
  20. Kaybe

    Kaybe G&G Evangelist

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    Just to be clear, if I replace the following items on my SKS, then I am legal: Stock(with pistol grip), magazine, handguard, gas piston. But, if I replace just one of them, let's say the stock, then I am NOT legal, according to .922. Am I correct?