Airplane question, need help.

Discussion in 'The Powder Keg' started by DaTeacha, Aug 22, 2010.

  1. DaTeacha

    DaTeacha Things are not what they seem. Forum Contributor

    Not seeing a forum for flying, I am putting this here.

    There is a guy who is planning to develop 43 acres near me for homes and an airstrip. He has already built a 1500 foot north-south strip and is working on a 700 foot east-west strip. He plans to have as many as 20 homes situated on the 43 acre site, occupied by fellow flying enthusiasts.

    At present there are at least 5 aircraft that fly from what was originally a farmers private landing strip for one plane that was rarely used. The new owner has built a couple of hangars for the planes and is doing a very nice job of making a first class set-up. I can't fault the looks of the place except I thought it was a lot nicer as a hayfield.

    My question is about noise. The N-S strip ends about 2800 feet from my house, the E-W one about 2500 feet. My home is one of 3 in a wooded triangle of land about 18 acres in size. The trees are about 100 feet tall. The favorite time for these guys to play with their planes coincides with those times of the day/evening when it is best to be outside on the deck or in the yard enjoying the former quiet, eating dinner, watching birds, and so on. When some of the planes pass low overhead, you literally cannot hear conversation from across the picnic table. Most flights are not quite that loud, but they definitely have an adverse impact on my lifestyle with the incessant noise. A lot of the time, I think they're just playing with the engine tune or something since they frequently take off, turn around, and then land again, only to repeat the procedure a bit later. A few days ago, there was about a two hour interval in the evening when there was a big biplane, a single wing craft, and an ultralight buzzing around. .

    I hate to think of what it will be like around here if all 20 of the planned homes are built and each of those people has a desire to play with their airplane on the same evening. We have no zoning, which is part of the problem. From what I can find, planes are supposed to be at least 1000 feet above obstacles and residences except when taking off and landing. I would guess these guys are typically less than 500 above the ground, not to mention the trees when they pass overhead. What distance from the end of the strip is considered to be the approach path? Are there noise restrictions on planes? Most of the ones that operate there now don't have mufflers.

    I talked to the guys the other day and asked them to please avoid overflying my home and they seemed to think they could do that, but I suspect this is going to be an ongoing problem. I asked about mufflers and got evasive answers. Are all planes able to run mufflers, or does it dangerously impact performance of the engines? One biplane in particular is extremely loud. Any insight you can give me about where to look for more information or enforcement would be greatly appreciated.

    Oh yeah, my elevation here is 1100 feet more or less.
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2010
  2. killsnapz

    killsnapz G&G Evangelist

    Well I am not a pilot but I have been an aviation nut since I was a kid and I have seen just about everything fly in my time. There definetly is a minamum altitute the must maintain but how you would go about finding out if they are breaking it would be pretty tough. The old biplanes are the worst noise makers by far. The old radial engine combined with the style of propeller they use makes a horrible noise that can be heard coming and going for miles. I myself have never seen any piston engined airplane use a muffler. Usally the only type of exhaust they use is a short straigh pipe. A muffler would definetely restrict the performace somewhat. Sounds like you are in for a tough fight. I would say ask them about changing there flight path but as you already stated they don't seem to care. Let us know how it works out. I'm curious.

  3. Guess I won`t be much help. I live 1/2 mile from our county airport.they have about a 2000 yd.grass strip and can even land twin engine aircraft.they have about 20 planes that call the place home,but I have been here about 10 years now and seldom even hear them,even though the landing pattern takes most of them over my house.(Maybe 7 or 8 hundred feet high.) And on top of that,I am about 1500 yds from a Gun Shop that has a test range out back,so I hear that more often than the planes,but after this long not much of it bothers me anymore.
    Does not seem to bother the Deer either;Planes or shooting, they still just stand by my back porch,eating the Hostas.
  4. grizcty

    grizcty God, Guns, Glory Forum Contributor

    I think you should contact the local FAA office.
    They will be able to give you any information needed.

    Could this developer.
    Be trying to run the locals off.
    By creating a situation.
    That make you want to sell out?
  5. DaTeacha

    DaTeacha Things are not what they seem. Forum Contributor

    Griz - just sent the local airport a similar request for information. The developer is a former student of mine. When I was over the other night asking them to avoid flying over my place he reverted to his usual looking at his feet while acting unfairly picked on routine just like he did in high school when I caught him doing something wrong. There is not a lot of sympathy at the county government level for his planned development since it is pretty far out in the country, but without zoning the only way to stop it is if the soil will not support well/septic systems on that level of home density, which is unlikely. I am trying to establish a no-fly zone around my home if I can.

    I wonder how things would work out if I had bought some land behind me and set up a skeet/trap range before he started increasing the operations? There must be some kind of FAA permitting process before you can start operating an airport. I know he had some power lines buried at the end of the big runway. If I had a preexisting range, would the FAA have declared my place a no-fly zone? It would be a matter of whose hobby takes precedence, my shooting or their flying. Moot question, I guess.
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2010
  6. lynxpilot

    lynxpilot Constitutionalist Forum Contributor

    Ava, MO
    In-transit avoidance is 500', but since the airport involves takeoffs and landings, there is no rule for avoidance so long as they are making normal approaches and departures to the airport.

    Check to see if they needed an environmental impact statement to start an aiport. Being an 'air park' as it is, things like that may not apply.

    Make incessant noise complaints to the sheriff's office.

    Did they even ask the neighbors before they went ahead with this plan?

    Seems sort of crass to me if they didn't.
  7. grizcty

    grizcty God, Guns, Glory Forum Contributor

    As I was making a reply to this post.
    I received a "Breaking news alert".
    About another small plane missing in Alaska.
    Which got me to thinking.

    You had mentioned the different types of planes, and two runways.
    And I am wondering IF maybe, they will be starting a flying school.
    This IS, a major safety factor. (in my opinion)

    And or, with that amount of planes, & more to follow.
    If a tower, crash truck/emergency equipment are required.
    Also find out, if they are fixing to have a fuel depot.

    Play your cards close to the vest.

    A fairly cheap investment is radio antennas.
    Mount one alongside your house, or property.
    Which should make, there flying ceiling higher.

    Are AA (anti aircraft) guns legal there? ;)
  8. Mmmm,

    as a former homebuilder I would try a different route.

    Go to the city and county and check for permits this person may or may not have. This relates not only to the airport but also the homes.

    Go to the proper governmental aviation authorities to check on permits and approvals for the project he is starting. It may require equipment, standards, etc. the person may or may not have. The runways themselves may require lighting and load bearing requirements this person has not met.

    It is possible to go to court and stop the project if he has started off without the proper permits.

    Forty three acres seems very small for two runways, streets, and homes.
    I would be amazed if all this can be legally fit into that small area.

    Also, check on restrictive covenants for the land he ownes as to what it can and cannot be used for in terms of buildings and activities.

    Check the required insurance for this type project to see if he does or does not have it. Insurance on a landing strip next to homes may be astronomically high. Most likely your state will not allow this type activity without a ton of insurance.

    Lots of guys start off big projects without getting their facts and insurance together.
  9. BunnyWabbit

    BunnyWabbit G&G Evangelist

    If you are in the county, most counties have rules of having to have 3 acres per home minimum to build. Also, the FAA gets real excited about planes flying too low, etc. I know this because where I used to hunt, the neighbor down the road had a plane and every time I was out hunting, he'd get in his plane, fly low and buzz the wildlife scaring them off on purpose. The FAA sent a sheriff out to visually verify what he was doing and he got a nice big ticket. Planes flying low over your house is a violation of your privacy. All you need to do is talk to the right people. If he is doing something not so legal or without permits, the right people haven't been told yet. You were there first and have a right to not having to deal with the noise. I'd try FAA first, then county zoning officials. A county commissioner should be able to direct you to the right place.
  10. danf6975

    danf6975 G&G Newbie

    the first thing is to ask FSDO if he is aloud to have the runways at all. get a sectional of area and see if his strip is on the map. if it isnt that is a good indicator that his strip may not be legal. if it is on the map then it has to comply with CFR noise abatement laws .
  11. danf6975

    danf6975 G&G Newbie

    thats not how airspace works but nice try ;)

    there is a LOT that would have to happen before they could start a school and i mean a LOT .

    now 14CFR part 91.119 A through C covers minimum safe altitudes
    . paragraph B concerns Congested areas and paragraph C covers Other than congested areas ( the one you want)
    C Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above
    the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In
    those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to
    any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.
  12. danf6975

    danf6975 G&G Newbie

    <----- commercial multi pilot btw :)
  13. danf6975

    danf6975 G&G Newbie

    actually planes flying low over your house is not a privacy violation because we have no rights to airspace above the ground of our land BUT
    it is a violation of your safety . if its a wildlife preserve the minimum AGL is 2000 feet otherwise there are some other determining factors like if you are in a densely populated area or if you are in what is called an " airport environment"
    you get more than a ticket if you are caught breaking rules. your medical certificate can be revoked ( not your pilots license) but being as BOTH a current medical and your license is required you cant fly anyways.
  14. This is a very interesting post :D You could always go buy you a big CB antenna and put it on a tall tower thats will keep em from coming down to close...but check your local laws you may be required to put lights on it and ect. Just a thought.

    My dad actually knew a guy who lived In Wasilla Alaska who had an airstrip close to him and the pilots use to get mad because he had a tall CB antenna and even though it was legal they would fly as low as they could over his house...well one Night one plane flew a little to low and almost crashed because he clipped the guys CB antenna lol. The pilot was in deep doo doo over that one too.
  15. .22hustler

    .22hustler G&G Evangelist

    Looks like there was a small airstrip there to begin with. To me, that sets a precedent.If zoning laws say it's ok,and it looks like there are no zoning laws, and the pilots follow all the rules, I guess your SOL..
  16. texnmidwest

    texnmidwest Sir Loin of Beef Forum Contributor

    If all else fails......My advice...learn to fly and enjoy the friendships you will make flying in and out of that strip!

    Ya, the noise is a hassle and yes, I am a pilot and enjoy the sound, but think of the hours of enjoyment a simple ultra light will bring you!

  17. I know what you meen, for example...... I know alot of people who hate loud cars and trucks but I love the sound of a Loud v8 Rumbling at idle or Roaring at wide open throttle :D
  18. .22hustler

    .22hustler G&G Evangelist

  19. SwedeSteve

    SwedeSteve Freedom Zealot Forum Contributor

    Raise homing pigeons.