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Do we the people have the individual right to own guns?
That is question before the U.S. Supreme Court on March 18 in the case of District of Columbia v. Heller. This case directly challenges the District of Columbia’s ban on handguns. In 1976, D.C. officials imposed a strict gun-ban law to supposedly curb increasing gun violence. But security guard Dick Anthony Heller believes he has a right to keep a handgun in his home and filed a lawsuit against the District. U.S. courts so far have agreed with Heller and ruled that the Second Amendment “protects an individual right to keep and bear arms … for such activities as hunting and self-defense.” D.C. officials have appealed the decision to the Supreme Court.

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[FONT=&quot]"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." George Washington[/FONT]

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[FONT=&quot]"Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence The Church, the plow, the prairie wagon and citizens firearms are indelibly related" George Washington[/FONT]

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[FONT=&quot] … now really, how can this be misconstrued so badly? Do we need to send the politicians back to basic English comprehension? [/FONT]
 

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Wow, Larry. Those are excelent sayings/quotes.
 

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Hey... former President George Washington said them, they've been around since he was.

What I do not quite understand is how badly the anti-gunners and anti-gun politicians cannot comprehend the statements. Sans political affiliation, these are undeniable.
 

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I hate to be a cynic, but I seriously doubt the term "prairie wagon" even existed during George Washington's lifetime; we were barely getting over the Appalachians at the time.

There were Conestoga wagons in his day, but they were mostly used by the military and by professional freighters. The "prairie schooners" immigrants used later on the plains were generally much lighter and easier to handle; more closely related to farm wagons than to freight wagons.

Sounds more like something that someone said in the 1800's...
 

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[FONT=&quot]Are you challenging the quote?
[/FONT]


While your at it, challenge the rest if you feel they are unfounded.

The simple fact of the matter is that the founding father of this great nation said we are allowed firearms as citizens and the idiots in Washington and our state leaders feel that the Constitution and Bill of Rights is a piece of toilet paper. They need to resign office if they are not going to defend the Constitution as they said they would.
 

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Brainy Quotes

From 'Brainy Quotes" attributed to 'George Washington'

"Firearm are second only to the Constitution in importance, they are the peoples' liberty's teeth"

Does this mean that the quote hasn't been molested? perhaps paraphrased?
 

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... still a quote from the founding father and not something that politicians have any right to disregard.
 

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Brainy Quotes

LarryO1970: Sir; we: YOU and I are in complete agreement. Without Doubt.

Sir; Check: Brainy Quotes: James Madison. NOW; sir we have total agreement.
James Madison agrees with YOU and me.

Many of the quotes appear to have been '?wiggled?' over time.
 

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[FONT=&quot]Are you challenging the quote?
[/FONT]


While your at it, challenge the rest if you feel they are unfounded.

The simple fact of the matter is that the founding father of this great nation said we are allowed firearms as citizens and the idiots in Washington and our state leaders feel that the Constitution and Bill of Rights is a piece of toilet paper. They need to resign office if they are not going to defend the Constitution as they said they would.
If someone's attributing a quote to George Washington that includes the term "prairie wagon," yes. I'm challenging it. The prairie in Washington's day started somewhere around what later became Indiana, and we had no wave of settlers crossing it yet.

I certainly don't disagree with the sentiments expressed, though. And as Neophyte pointed out, the quote may have 'wiggled' a bit over time.

edit: I tracked that quote down to a website (What the Founding Father Said About Guns), and read it in its entirety. I'm sorry; it sounds bogus from beginning to end. I'm going to go looking for the actual speech it supposedly came from, and I'll let you know what I find.

edit 2: so far I've found this at http://www.guncite.com/gc2ndbog.html:

"This quotation, sometimes called the "liberty teeth" quote, appears nowhere in Washington's papers or speeches, and contains several historical anachronisms: the reference to "prairie wagon" in an America which had yet to even begin settling the Great Plains (which were owned by France at the time), the reference to "the Pilgrims" which implies a modern historical perspective, and particularly the attempt by "Washington" to defend the utility of firearms (by use of statistics!) to an audience which would have used firearms in their daily lives to obtain food, defend against hostile Indians, and which had only recently won a war for independence.
The "99 99/100 percent" is also an odd phrase for 18th century America, which tended not to use fractional percentages. It's clear that "Washington" is addressing "gun control" arguments which wouldn't exist for another couple of centuries, not to mention doing so in a style that is uncharacteristic of the period, and uncharacteristic of Washington's addresses to Congress, both of which exhibited a high degree of formality.

"This is a false quote, but bits and pieces of it still continue to crop up from time to time. Even national publications, such as Playboy magazine, have been snared by it. (Playboy published the "quote" in December 1995 as part of an article entitled "Once and for All: What the Founding Fathers Said About Guns". After consulting with an assistant editor of the George Washington Papers at the University of Virginia, Playboy published a lengthy correction in March 1996.)"
 

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Brainy Quotes

Quotes Attributed to James Madison:

A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained in arms, is the best most natural defense of a free country.

All men having power ought to be distrusted to a certain degree

All men having power ought to be mistrusted

Americans have the right and advantage of being armned-unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.

Whether this tell the complete story "I" [Craig] don't know. We can only assume the accuracies.

In framing the government which is to be administered by men over men you must first enable the government to control the goverened; and in the next place oblige it to control itself
 

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Okay, I tracked down the speech. "George Washington's Address to the Second Session of the First Congress" is just a fancy way of labeling his first Annual Message to Congress, on January 8, 1790. Here's the speech in its entirety, and it doesn't have the disputed quote at all::

Fellow Citizens of the Senate, and House of Representatives,
I embrace with great satisfaction the opportunity, which now presents itself, of congratulating you on the present favourable prospects of our public affairs. The recent accession of the important state of North Carolina to the Constitution of the United States (of which official information has been received)--- the ruling credit and respectability of our country--- the general and increasing good will towards the government of the union, and the concord, peace and plenty, with which we are blessed, are circumstances auspicious, in an excellent degree, to our national prosperity.

In reforming your consultations for the general good, you cannot but derive encouragement from the reflection, the measures of the last session have been as satisfactory to your constituents as the novelty and difficulty of the work allowed you to hope.-- Still further to realize their expectations, and to secure the blessings which a gracious Providence has placed within our reach, will in the course of the present important session, call for the cool and deliberate exertion of your patriotism, firmness and wisdom.

Among the many interesting objects which will engage your attention, that of providing for the common defence will merit particular regard. To be prepared for war is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace.

A free people ought not only to be armed but disciplined; to which end a uniform and well digested plan is requisite: And their safety and interest require that they should promote such manufactories, as tend to render them independent on others, for essential, particularly for military supplies.

The proper establishment of the troops which may be deemed indispensable, will be entitled to mature consideration. In the arrangement which will be made respecting it, it will be of importance to conciliate the comfortable support of the officers and soldiers with a due regard to economy.

There was reason to hope, the pacifick measures adopted with regard to certain hostile tribes of Indians, would have relieved the inhabitants of our southern and western frontiers from their depredations. But you will perceive, from the information contained in the papers, which I shall direct to be laid before you, (comprehending a communication from the Commonwealth of Virginia) that we ought to be prepared to afford protection to those parts of the Union; and, if necessary, to punish aggressors.

The interests of the United States require, that our intercourse with other nations should be facilitated by such provisions as will enable me to fulfill my duty, in that respect, in the manner which circumstances may render most conducive to the publick good: And to this end, that the compensations to be made to the persons who may be employed, should, according to the nature of their appointments, be defined by law; and a competent fund designated for defraying the expenses incident to the conduct of our foreign affairs.

Various considerations also render it expedient, that the terms on which foreigners may be admitted to the rights of Citizens, should be speedily ascertained by a uniform rule of naturalization.

Uniformity in the currency, weights and measures of the United States, is an object of great importance, and will, I am persuaded, be duly attended to.

The advancement of agriculture, commerce and manufactures, by all proper means, will not, I trust, need recommendation. But I cannot forbear intimating to you the expediency of giving effectual encouragement as well to the introduction of new and useful inventions from abroad, as to the exertions of skill and genius in producing them at home; and of facilitating the intercourse between the distant parts of our country by a due attention to the Post Office and Post Roads.

Nor am I less persuaded, that you will agree with me in opinion, that there is nothing which can better deserve your patronage, than the promotion of Science and Literature. Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of publick happiness. In one, in which the measures of government receive their impression so immediately from the sense of the community, as in our's, it is proportionately essential. To the security of a free Constitution it contributes in various ways: By convincing those who are entrusted with the publick administration, that every valuable end of government is best answered by the enlightened confidence of the people: And by teaching the people themselves to know, and to value their own rights; to discern and provide against invasions of them; to distinguish between oppression and the necessary exercise of lawful authority; between burthens proceeding from a disregard to their convenience, and those resulting from the inevitable exigencies of society; to discriminate the spirit of liberty from that of licentiousness, cherishing the first, avoiding the last, and uniting a speedy, but temperate vigilance against encroachments, with an inviolable respect to the laws.

Whether this desirable object will be best promoted by affording aids to seminaries of learning already established, by the institution of a national university, or by any other expedients, will be well worthy of a place in the deliberations of the Legislature.

Gentlemen of the House of Representatives,
I saw with peculiar pleasure, at the close of the last session, the resolution entered into by you, expressive of your opinion, that an adequate provision for the support of the publick credit, is a matter of high importance to the national honour and prosperity.-- In this sentiment, I entirely concur.-- And to a perfect confidence in your best endeavors to devise such a provision as will be truly consistent with the end, I add an equal reliance on the cheerful cooperation of the other branch of the Legislature.-- It would be superfluous to specify inducements to a measure in which the character and permanent interests of the United States so obviously and so deeply concerned; and which has received so explicit a sanction from your declaration.

Gentlemen of the Senate, and House of Representatives,
I have directed the proper officers to lay before you respectively such papers and estimates as regards the affairs particularly recommended to your consideration, and necessary to convey to you that information of the state of the union, which it is my duty to afford.

The welfare of our country is the great object to which our cares and efforts ought to be directed.-- And I shall derive great satisfaction from a cooperation with you, in the pleasing though arduous task of ensuring to our fellow citizens the blessings which they have a right to expect, from a free and equal government.
 

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okay... mentions nothing of firearms or any amendments to the Constitution. Are you sure you found the right speech?

Hey, if I'm wrong, I'll admit it. If the quote was bastardized, then I am wrong. What about this one:

"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." George Washington
 

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Score: 1 for the Liberial in our midst
0 for the "quote sayers"
I sure am happy that the "supremes" are not hearing the D.C. case on the "15th"
 

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second

troy2000: Sir; :)my second indiscretion:bigeyes: and we had this in 7th grade history.:no1: and don't that suck. 'liberty's teeth"

I do believe a double checking my resources is needed:34:

LarryO1970: Sir; as best as I could reference checking 3 sources and re-reading the First Inaugural Speech. It aint there.
Also called the "State of the Union Address"
 

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A few more quotes from the Founding Fathers that are relevant

"If men are to be precluded from offering their sentiments on a matter, which may involve the most serious and alarming consequences that can invite the considertion of mankind, reason is of no use to us; the freedom of speech may be taken away, and dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."
George Washington


"Fear is the foundation of most governments." John Adams

"Where annual elections end, there slavery begins." John Adams

"I hold it, that a little rebellion, now and then, is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical." Thomas Jefferson

"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." James Madison

That last by James Madison is especially relevant to Second Amendment issues at this time; also to the First Amendment as a result of the abuses of the Bush Administration. Keep this firmly in mind when considering what the candidates are saying about Americans' ersoanl freedoms - and in the cases of Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, what they are not saying.
 

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okay... mentions nothing of firearms or any amendments to the Constitution. Are you sure you found the right speech?

Hey, if I'm wrong, I'll admit it. If the quote was bastardized, then I am wrong. What about this one:

"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." George Washington
You're determined to make me work, aren't you, Larry?:09:

Speaking of which: I'm on the job, and need to do some of the stuff I get paid for. But I'll look that one up in a while; it should be pretty easy. I don't know if it's legit or not, but at least it sounds more like something the man might have said.

And yes, I'm pretty sure I found the right speech. I doubt he would've made two to the second session of the First Congress; he didn't give that many of them. Besides, not only was the term prairie wagon not current then; they also didn't refer to those first settlers in New England as Pilgrims until more modern times. And the full "Liberty Teeth " quote includes the phrase "99 99/100 percent of them..." C'mon; they didn't talk like that in the 1700's to begin with, and George Washington's public speeches are very formal and dignified.

OK, that one was easy. I just had to think a little. It's loosely based on a paragraph in his same Annual Message to Congress, but here's what he really said:

"A free people ought not only to be armed but disciplined; to which end a uniform and well digested plan is requisite: And their safety and interest require that they should promote such manufactories, as tend to render them independent on others, for essential, particularly for military supplies."
 
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