Ammo Question

Discussion in 'Mosin Nagant' started by AOM1Carbine, Aug 14, 2010.

  1. AOM1Carbine

    AOM1Carbine G&G Newbie

    So I recently bought a mint M44 from my LGS and I had had some serious sticky bolt issues with this gun. Ive cleaned it several times with hot water, mineral spirits, and a 20ga bore brush.

    Ive shot brass cased 7.62x54r and it works great but as soon as I use the copper washed steel it locks my gun up...Ive had to use a rubber mallot the last 3 times Ive shot the gun

    So yesterday I bring the gun in and complain to the owners, these are good guys and I trust them for the most part but they fed me this line that the ammo could be overcharged and it was ment for an RPK is this BS or could this be true

    Any help would be great guys
     
  2. Any 7.62x54R should work in a Mosin Nagant. Have you disassembled your bolt and soaked it in mineral spirits? There could still be cosmoline in there. I also soak me receiver in mineral spirits and I haven't had any sticky bolt issues.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2010

  3. I have heard of laquered steel case ammo gumming up a bolt. "Over charged" ammo is a new one. What, exactly, type of ammo is causing this problem?
     
  4. surgicaltech

    surgicaltech G&G Evangelist

    I think they probably mean machine gun ammo.
     
  5. jlb783

    jlb783 G&G Regular

    You should check your chamber for burrs but if there aren't any follow this video and it should help.
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXC_PQkLkNA"]YouTube- "Sticky Mosin Nagant Bolt? Making your Mosin Rock part 1" M91/30 M38 M44 M39 Finnish Russian[/ame]
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2010
  6. Edit your post and delete all the letters and symbols then get the link again and redo it. For some reason you have to do that with youtube links now.
     
  7. jlb783

    jlb783 G&G Regular

    I put the youtube link and it still did that. But I have it figured out now
     
  8. PAPA G

    PAPA G G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

    which tells me his LGS is full of poopie. no nation ever fielded a rifle cartridge machine gun that was stronger than the rifle ammo. it decreases comonality of cartridge, increases ammo mix up errors with devastating results.
     
  9. Ken in Iowa

    Ken in Iowa G&G Evangelist

    Usually the copper washed ammo doesn't stick. It certainly could be a hot lot which you could cross check in another rifle.

    Have you just used the 2 types of ammo in it?

    Are they feeding you a line? Yes and no. Mostly Yes. The high pressure 7.62x54R was built for the ShKAS aircraft machine gun. Russian Ammo link

    The RPK uses a different caliber ammo entirely, 7.62x39 or 5.45x39 in later models.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2010
  10. gandog56

    gandog56 G&G Evangelist

    Copper wash doesn't cause the problem but it might have been there already and heat makes it "come out". I had a few Mosins that did it, and the 20 gauge wire brush/cleaning rod section/ electric drill solution fixed them all.
     
  11. Iron_Colonel

    Iron_Colonel G&G Enthusiast

    Methods to treat the "sticky bolt" syndrome. If you haven't done so already, I would advise stripping your bolt down, and making sure any and all cosmolene has been removed from it. Inside and out. Mineral spirits, carb cleaner, brake kleen would all be good candidates to do this job. I like to use mineral spirits, and drop all the bolt parts that will fit in to a Gatorade jug (or any jug with a wide mouth and a lid to fit on it), filling the jug a quarter or so full of mineral spirits, and shaking lightly, letting sit, shaking, letting sit etc. Repeat for a half hr (not really any standard of time for this method, just enough to let it soak in to any thick cosmo). If you have stuff to do, shake it, lay it down sideways (be sure your lid doesn't leak) so the spirits soak the bolt parts and come back later. If there is still anything left on any bolt parts, an old toothbrush (or any brush for that matter) usually does the trick. Just dunk the brush in your jug, and scrub any cosmo off any bolt parts still cosmo'd. Then dry off all the mineral spirits, reoil, reassemble and test. If you have done this already, try the following...

    A small inspection mirror would come in handy at this time. If you don't have one, stick your pinky up in the chambering area where the bolt lugs engage the receiver to lock it down when you close the bolt on a round. Rub your pinky around, trying to get it in all the cracks and crevasses inside there. Maybe try a patch on your pinky to see if anything nasty comes out. If there is residue, or any type of gunk, or nast in there, you will want to get rid of it. Soak a patch in mineral spirits or the before mentioned substances (or whatever you have that you like to use like Hoppes or whatever gun cleaner) and try to get every corner, crack, crevass, shoulder, hump (insert adjective) clean in those locking lugs and bolt raceways. Resort to Qtips, dental picks, wire cleaners, toothpicks or anything else you can think of to work in there to make sure every last drop of nast is out of that area where the bolt head travels. You could even plug the chamber with a cork or something and squirt some carb cleaner, brake kleen (or whatever chemical you have) and let it soak for a bit. You can sit the rifle vertical or lay it upside down on a gun vice and let the chemicals work their way in to every place possible. In my experience, a few squirts of brake kleen into the bolt head area directly on any gunk with the little straw usually does the trick (wear eye protection for this). Let it sit a few, then squirt again. But, I forewarn you: REMOVE METAL FROM STOCK if you do attempt this method, and try to make an effort not to get any chemicals on your bluing or metal finish to help preserve it. Brake kleen has no remorse for stock finishes either. If that doesn't work, try the following...

    Especially if you are shooting lacquer coated ammo, any oils in the chamber will react with the pressures and heat created when a round is shot, especially if you heat your gun up shooting quite a bit. Make sure the area of the chamber where the bullet goes when you close the bolt on a round is good and clean. Take a brush like a .20 ga. or .45 cal pistol brush or something of the like (and you can even chuck it in a drill if you have a section of a cleaning rod) and put some of your mineral spirits, gun cleaner, whatever on the brush, and clean out the chamber. Then stick a patch on the brush and soak it, and repeat. Either method can be tried first. A degreasing chemical like mineral spirits, brake kleen or even alcohol soaked in to the patch does a pretty good job at getting rid of any residual chemicals too. Finish it off with a clean dry patch to hopefully be done! This is the best you can do really short of polishing parts on your bolt.

    If you’re looking to polish, you’ll want to polish all the camming surfaces where it rubs against itself when it is operated. Start out with some 220 grit sandpaper. You’ll want to be sure to hit the cocking knob area and where it rotates when the bolt is cycled. Get the cocking knob, and any other areas where there is friction. Then repeat with a 400 and more if you like. Then take it to a buffing wheel to shine it up real nice with some polishing compound.

    Hope that helps! Do your cases you extract have any gouges, or scratches on them?
     
  12. AOM1Carbine

    AOM1Carbine G&G Newbie

    Well I have boiled my bolt in water and cleaned it several times with mineral spirits, I have shot it with brass cased ammunition and it works fine. I also cleaned it with my battery drill and the bore brush soaked in mineral spirits.

    I think its russian ammo I have the spam can still so maybe ill look up the info on the can but its at the LGS and they are good guys and they are looking at it, hopefully that'll help or ill just have to remember the rubber mallot when I go shooting
     
  13. YugoCrazy

    YugoCrazy G&G Newbie

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    i Fixed My Sticky Bolt By Using...Toothpaste...yep Thats Right..TOOTHPASTE
    I Had A Thought One Day And Said To Myself (If people Use It To Polish Rings Then Why Cant I Use It To "Lap" My Bolt Into My Receiver?) I Took Apart My Bolt And SMEARED It On ALL Mating Surfaces...Then Inside The Receiver And Took A Electric handheld Drill And 20 Gauge Brush And Spun It DEEP Into The Lug Recesses Then Ran The Bolt EXACTLY 100 Times WITH Dry Firing To Work The Sear Too...Then i Disassembled And Cleaned out The Toothpaste And Cleaned The Bore Like I Should And The Re-oiled EVERYTHING..no Grease..Just OIL Then Your Bolt Will Be As Slick as Butter...It may Also Help To Slightly Sand The Sides Of The back Of The Receiver Until It Is Smooth As Some Can HUG The Bolt Causing it To Be stiff STILL...Thats My Trick And It has Worked For My Ex Sniper And my Tula..Keep Shooting, Mark :handgun:
     
  14. AOM1Carbine

    AOM1Carbine G&G Newbie

    When I get the gun back from the store ill make sure to put aside a good amount of time to clean and work on this rifle...It really is beautiful so I really don't want to get rid of it, Ill make it work
     
  15. gandog56

    gandog56 G&G Evangelist

    I have also boiled my bolts in water, because I have the mechanical aptitude of an orange. But once I got over my cowardice and disassembled one of those boiled bolts, I was amazed at the crud still in there.