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another Zero tolerance

Discussion in 'The Powder Keg' started by Shaun, May 2, 2002.

  1. Shaun

    Shaun G&G Evangelist

    When are they going to let these kids express themselves this is stupid !!!

    Girl suspended for stick-figure doodle

    MOUNT LEBANON, Pennsylvania (AP) -- A Pennsylvania school suspended an 11-year-old girl for drawing two teachers with arrows through their heads, saying the stick figures were more death threat than doodle.

    Becca Johnson, an honor-roll sixth-grader at Mellon Middle School, drew the picture on the back of a vocabulary test on which she had gotten a D.

    "That's my way of saying I'm angry," Becca said, adding she meant no harm to the teachers.

    The stick figures, on a crudely drawn gallows with arrows in their heads, had the names of Becca's teacher and a substitute teacher written underneath. Another teacher spotted the doodle in the girl's binder Tuesday and reported it, prompting the three-day suspension.

    Becca's parents, Philip and Barbara Johnson, denied the school's contention the drawings were "terrorist threats."

    "She had done poorly on a test that was handed back to her. We've always told her that you can't take your feelings out on your teacher, so write about it or draw it, as a catharsis," Barbara Johnson said.

    She accused the school of applying a zero-tolerance policy that "does away with due process and inflicts a penalty without a hearing or investigation."

    The district said its zero-tolerance policy applies only to gun or drug possession, and denied that no investigation was done.

    "All I can say is that when we have taken action related to the activities of students in the schools, we have done so after a thorough investigation," Mount Lebanon School District Superintendent Glenn Smartschan said.
     
  2. Benny

    Benny G&G Newbie

    You beat me to it Shaun. I was just about to post this same story... it is absolutely ridiculous. Of course kids are going to draw their teachers as monsters or stick figures hangin from the gallows. Kids just do that!! It's because they're kids!! Not some little terrorist in training. If they suspended or put in jail everyone that had drawn something like this about their teachers... we'd all be in jail or out of school. Insanity...

    Benny
     

  3. Stopper

    Stopper G&G Newbie

    Doodles drawings and Thong inspections. Whats next?

    I used to ask if everyone has gone nuts, but I don't have to ask that anymore because they have.

    Things are probably going to get alot worse before they get any better, sorry to say.
     
  4. Shaun

    Shaun G&G Evangelist

    I guess when I have kids it will have to be a home schooling or Private -- There is no way I would take away the kids childhood. Benny you are right I know I would have been washed out many hundreds of times - My Senior Year Government Paper was on the M16 when it was first introduced in Vietnam and why we lost so many troops to jams. I would have never graduated if todays junk was in place then
     
  5. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    Thong inspections? What?
    When I was in school, ZT was relatively new. I'll bet students would get hung for doing what we did... pictures, songs...
     
  6. This is another case of the administrators and the school system not quite knowing how to handle the situations in the school and going overboard. It's the same thing with parents discipling their kids and being arrested. There was a case not that long ago in Atlanta where a little girl came to school with a Tweety Bird key chain, she was expelled. The reason? The schools zero tolerance policy forbids chains as they can be used as a weapon.
     
  7. SPOCAHP ANAR

    SPOCAHP ANAR G&G Enthusiast

    As I recall

    The school backpeddled on that one, but the parents refused to send her back. It made the Montel show where he scathed them pretty hard.

    Ought to call it Zero Intelligence.
     
  8. Oxford

    Oxford G&G Evangelist

    So you want to eliminate public schools?

    No doubt there's been some dumb actions taken by some teachers, schools and administrators in public schools, private schools and home schools, as well. If public schools are so bad why enroll your kids there? Why not home school or send them to private schools?

    Public schools are required to offer educational opportunities for every kid within certain age ranges in their district. Out of control kids who enroll in private schools are kicked out. Students with certain other handicaps are not accepted. Where do they eventually go to school? Of course, public schools cannot refuse to educate anyone who applies. I'm talking about physically handicapped, mentally handicapped, kids with a lack of social development and every other kind of problem students.

    Earlier in our country's history only the rich kids and elite class could afford to attend school. Eventually, the common class of citizen prevailed and forced political districts to offer free education to the masses. That made it possible for the lowest of the low class citizens to have opportunities that only the aristocrats once had. Overall, public education has provided a way to equalize life's opportunities for everyone.

    Now to condemn all schools, all administrators, and all public schools is not a good idea. Even if a kid is enrolled in private school or home school, the parents will still be supporting public schools because of the taxes they're required to pay. If public schools were eliminated, a lot of people who are complaining would then complain about the lack of an affordable education for their kids.

    Oxford
    :fuss:
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2002
  9. SPOCAHP ANAR

    SPOCAHP ANAR G&G Enthusiast

    Valid Point

    That is a good point Oxford. I send my two sons to public schools and have had no problems with the district. I think it has a lot to do with the region of the country. I live in NC. We are a fairly moderate to mild conservative state as far as beliefs go (though I can't see why so many democrats get elected). ZERO INTELLIGENCE seems to go on in more liberal regions such as up north and out on the left coast.

    This sort of thing is going to continue to go on until there is some sort of public outrage that is really going to make these people think. As long as they have job security when it comes to these manners and the the courts keep supporting this BS it is going to happen.

    As for the Thong inspections - that lady should lose her job. If she did that to my child I would have her fired. I wonder if there is a ban on no underwear at the prom?
     
  10. Oxford

    Oxford G&G Evangelist

    Some parents are too liberal

    Another point is that too many times liberal parents ignore all kinds of unacceptable behavior of their kids then blame schools for doing something they should have done themselves. Too many parents have no control of their kids and then complain when their kids behavior is unacceptable elsewhere. Discipline should all start at home. If it's not there than parents (& kids) will have a miserable time till their kids are eventually "out of the nest."

    Discipline starts from the time a baby first learns the meaning of "no". That may be around 7-10 months of age in my opinion. It isn't something that you start teaching at 6, 12, or 17, etc. Unfortunately, some parents are too soft and are only setting their kids up for heartaches later on when other people, or school officials, tell them "no" and they think they're being picked on or treated unfairly.

    As far as a parent firing a teacher/administrator for bad decisions, that's not possible in MO because only the school board has that legal authority. I would guess most districts around the country are like that, too. However, they can attend board meetings to be heard, file their complaints, and put on pressure to fire someone by that method.

    Regarding Zero tolerance for guns, that's got to be administered with a lot of discretion. I personally knew of a student in my public school district who got surrounded by several police cars as he was parked in front of another school. He had been holding up what looked like a authentic pistol but when they police confronted him, it was only a water pistol. The kid used bad judgement not realizing how others would view the fake pistol. As I remember he was repriminded and told not to return to that school and sent on his way. How was the police to know the difference? Some of the fake pistols are difficult to tell from real guns unless examined up close.

    Oxford:nod:
     
  11. BenP

    BenP G&G Newbie

    Unfortunately, we don't seem to have much choice about the matter. Whether I like it or not, whether I use it or not, I have to pay for the public school system.

    Pure and simple, it is socialist economics and government in the highest sense. The teachers aren't there for the kids, they're there to collect a paycheck. Those who would teach for the sake of teaching become cynnical after having to deal with an inept and greedy administration.

    Our public school system is the epitomy of Orwell's mind police, easily rivaling any re-conditioning program in China.

    Or maybe I've just listened to too much Pink Floyd.
     
  12. Rave

    Rave G&G Evangelist

    More like too much liberal and union control and no kid control. Where or when did we lose our common sense?The situation is not going to improve until we get it back,and the courage to use it!:nod: :nod: :nod: :(
     
  13. Oxford

    Oxford G&G Evangelist

    Throw out just the bad apples!

    BenP, with no disrespect to you, I believe the following quote is an overgeneralization:

    "The teachers aren't there for the kids, they're there to collect a paycheck. Those who would teach for the sake of teaching become cynnical after having to deal with an inept and greedy administration."

    For a strong majority of those teachers I worked with it wasn't true. Speaking from personal experience, I was not that way and I know of lots of other great teachers who weren't that way and did not become cynical either.

    Unfortunately, every occupation has a few malcontents who should get on with the program or get out of the way of someone who will do the job right.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2002
  14. Oxford

    Oxford G&G Evangelist

    What started the zero tolerance movement?

    We got a quite a ways off the original topic of this thread on zero tolerance so I'll try to redirect it back to where I think it started.

    If a person was a survivor of a mass slaying, whether it be from gunshots, knives, or anything else, which is what I think started the move toward zero tolerance, I think he would not put up with any cxxp from anyone who appeared to be threatening. At least that's how I think. He would "be prepared" for the next time.

    This has caused some people to be wisely prepared for a proper defensive stance. On the other end of the spectrum others have gotten compulsively too neurotic and have overreacted. Some of those in the latter category have unfortunately been in charge of situations when they were not phychologically able to be leaders of anything at that time.

    My stand is to "hang loose", don't overreact...just be wisely prepared. To me that means keeping ammunition for my guns closeby and not assuming that being in public places is as safe as it used to be.

    It doesn't mean that I have the right to infringe on anyone else's rights by demanding that they do this or that just because I'm nervous about a situation. This is where some rediculous decisions have been made by different officials which gets citizens (including people of all ages) riled up.:nod:
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2002
  15. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    My experience with the public school system is that the only thing good about it was teachers who cared about students because of their own values and convictions. Nothing the school requires makes the school more than day care.
    Way things are now, you're growing up on a farm no matter what. Free men grow up running farms. Otherwise, they grow up as livestock.
     
  16. Doglips

    Doglips G&G Newbie

    Im glad I graduated in 1981...yes I passed english...just not spelling:). Me and my friends would have been on CNN for or actions if this made the news....Course I rember when we all had guns in the gun racks of our pick ups on school propert....can we say swat team now. The world has go0ne nuts and the nuts are in charge....let lose the squirls.