[Moroco Mole]

Decided to start a thread on the legality, viability and use of hunting deer with an AR 15. Mostly for restricted hunting states. Comparing different Calibers, uppers etc.
After much digging and poking around, I found out a 350Legend is considered a straight walled .357 cartridge by Winchester and the ODNR..
So therefore is a legal deer hunting round in Ohio starting this deer season.I had originally thought the law would go buy the actual dimension of the bullet. Found out, prior to its release, there was a bit of conflict among Officials as to whether it would be legal once released.(That had been resolved.)
After emailing both the Company and the State. Found out that if it was developed as , and called by the developer a .357 round, and it is straight walled, by law in Ohio it is a legal deer round. The box of ammo says .357 on it, so it is, by law.
Wish I knew how to post the responses From ODNR and Winchester here, but from my email, all I know how to do is print.
But if you email Winchester, or Ohio ODNR, they will both tell you it is a legal deer hunting round.
Any how, figured I could learn more about This round and other allowable AR deer hunting rounds, and the uppers,magazines that accommodate them.

 

[EtherialOne]

Interesting and a nice round! Thinking it might be one that stays around for awhile, especially being Rimless and considering the popularity of .357 and .44 Magnum Rifles and it having significantly more energy and velocity than either.

And navigating state hunting laws can be a real PITA as well. The County I live in in NC has a law that reads "Hunt with the use of a centerfire rifle or any firearm capable of firing a centerfire projectile, unless the person is positioned in a stationary and elevated position at least 10 feet above the ground".. I ended up having to talk to the county Game Warden as to what the heck they were talking about and I was told that any "shouldered" centerfire cartridge was considered to be a "Centerfire Rifle" or Centerfire Projectile", so for non tree or platform hunting I'm limited to what you are, at least in the County I live in. So this 350 sounds pretty interesting... But then again I've been wanting a 45-70 Lever Gun for a while so that would be a Tough Call~

 

[Moroco Mole]

Interesting and a nice round! Thinking it might be one that stays around for awhile, especially being Rimless and considering the popularity of .357 and .44 Magnum Rifles and it having significantly more energy and velocity than either.

But then again I've been wanting a 45-70 Lever Gun for a while so that would be a Tough Call~

I have gotten really good with my AR using it for Yotes an groundhogs.I have the trigger tuned just where I want it, and have developed a technique that works well for me. But Like you I also have been looking at levers. The thing that impresses me about the 350 WL round, is it seams to be a good 100 to 250 yard gun reaching just outside of grasp of anything I currently own. And outside of a realistic expectation of other straight walled cartridges. IMO
Also this seams like a round I could, without too much hassle, load my own for. Making target practice an affordable thing.

 

[runfiverun]

the 350 is actually 355 not 357.
good luck finding one that works in the AR platform.
they can be made to usually work and have since they started necking 223 cases up to 358.
but the case length is super critical so the round has something to head space on.
the 350 is not a 223 case, it's more a rimless 358 maximum.

the 350 is tapered and uses that taper to kind of cheat by using the tapered body as a helper to HS with.

legally the round might sorta squeak in if the state allows it.
but by true definition and measurement it isn't/doesn't.

 

[mouser868]

Have no other input to give other than Midway has Stoner uppers for 340.00

 

[Moroco Mole]

The actual .355 measurement spiked my interest as to legality. But apparently Winchester listed the round with SAAMI as having .357 bullet with an allowable -.003 variance. Thus getting around the State regulations.

 

[Moroco Mole]

BCA has an upper M4 style, in a 16 inch.With bolt carrier, magazine, included.
https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/upper-assemblies?spec_caliber=473&spec_platform=442&stock=1
It's Plain Jane chrome vanadium, but for the price it is still a pretty good deal. I have one of their chrome vanadium .223, 14.5's with welded flash hider on my AR, that I installed till I could get something "better". It's accuracy shocked me. Needless to say it is staying on that upper.

 

[runfiverun]

yeah,,, they show the minus tolerance.
my honest opinion is they were trying to be too cute with the round wanting some kind of middle ground thumper for the AR platform.

then I think as an after thought they remembered the deer hunters that need a straight wall case so fudged the numbers some to make them barely fit the rules.

I don't think the round is going to be too popular.
other than the original debates when it was first released this is the first discussion I have seen about it on like 6 gun boards I cruise through.

the 223 case version wasn't making any big splashes either and it's been available for more than 10 years.

 

[Dutch]

Keep us posted Morocco. I have an AR chambered for .450 Bushmaster which is awesome. The .350 Legend is like the little brother. I’ve been waiting to see what happens with this cartridge; if it gains some traction I’m absolutely getting an upper chambered for it.

 

[Moroco Mole]

Keep us posted Morocco. I have an AR chambered for .450 Bushmaster which is awesome. The .350 Legend is like the little brother. I’ve been waiting to see what happens with this cartridge; if it gains some traction I’m absolutely getting an upper chambered for it.

What do you think about your 450 BM? What do you believe, by real life experience, a reasonable acceptable range would be?What is the recoil, and drop like, in reality, to deal with while in a hunting situation. Would appreciate seeing some real life experience,based opinions on some of the other "AR"deer rounds. Even on some that are not legal in The Straight walled states(at least not yet).

 

[runfiverun]

think of the 450BM like a 454 Casull trying to be a 45-70.
it sort of gets there, until you take the 45-70 into a modern rifle.
good enough for deer hunting for sure though.

 

[Dutch]

What do you think about your 450 BM? What do you believe, by real life experience, a reasonable acceptable range would be?What is the recoil, and drop like, in reality, to deal with while in a hunting situation. Would appreciate seeing some real life experience,based opinions on some of the other "AR"deer rounds. Even on some that are not legal in The Straight walled states(at least not yet).

The .450 bushmaster has, on paper at least, slightly better muzzle velocity and ft-lbs than the .45/70 at similar bullet weights. However, the .450 uses a pistol bullet with horrible aerodynamics and ballistic coefficients. It slows down quick. I have no experience hunting with mine, but assume around 250 yards would be max distance.

I’ve not shot mine without the muzzle brake it came with. Recoil is moderate though, feeling a little heavier than that of a .308 AR and no where near as rough as a .45/70. Again though, with a brake.

Mine groups well under minute of angle at 100 yards. I’ve not shot it at any further distance, so haven’t stretched it’s legs to see what the drop is actually like. I’m assuming the chart on the ammo box is close though.



As a side note, I live in CO. My longest shot on an elk or deer was under 100 yards. I know what my hunting rifle does out to 300, just in case, but doubt I’ll ever take a shot at that long of a distance. Pronghorn are the exception, but I have a different rifle for them...



I watched quite a few videos of people hunting with the .450 bushmaster. I have no doubt it performs well on game animals. I think it’s a cool round, and it certainly moves around my steel plate. I’ve not hunted with it, but I certainly would.

 

[Moroco Mole]

The .450 bushmaster has, on paper at least, slightly better muzzle velocity and ft-lbs than the .45/70 at similar bullet weights. However, the .450 uses a pistol bullet with horrible aerodynamics and ballistic coefficients. It slows down quick. I have no experience hunting with mine, but assume around 250 yards would be max distance.

I’ve not shot mine without the muzzle brake it came with. Recoil is moderate though, feeling a little heavier than that of a .308 AR and no where near as rough as a .45/70. Again though, with a brake.

Mine groups well under minute of angle at 100 yards. I’ve not shot it at any further distance, so haven’t stretched it’s legs to see what the drop is actually like. I’m assuming the chart on the ammo box is close though.



As a side note, I live in CO. My longest shot on an elk or deer was under 100 yards. I know what my hunting rifle does out to 300, just in case, but doubt I’ll ever take a shot at that long of a distance. Pronghorn are the exception, but I have a different rifle for them...



I watched quite a few videos of people hunting with the .450 bushmaster. I have no doubt it performs well on game animals. I think it’s a cool round, and it certainly moves around my steel plate. I’ve not hunted with it, but I certainly would.

Thank you a lot of good, honest info there.
I am eventual going to get a good deer- hog hunting upper.
Bear with me while I ramble here......
I kinda have this Philosophy about guns and hunting. Call it my personal Fudology if you will.
I like the Idea of using the fewest possible guns, to hunt as many critters as possible, In as many situations as possible with as little change over as possible. I think that an Ohioan really "don't need" (please do not mistake this statement for "should not have") More than 2 long guns, to effectively hunt. They are an 870Rem or 50 Mo, and an AR.Also I believe if necessary that gun should be easy to work on and maintain, and be able to be used by everyone in the family.
Thus was born my 870 youth with the 20 inch ribbed smooth bore barrel, A thick recoil pad, high-vis sights and every choke they make, including the rifled one for sluggers. It has killed Pheasant,Squirrel,Coyote, Deer,Rabbit,and one very Big hog.
Thus my decision to purchase an AR 15. Figure If I get a dedicated 22lr upper, and a good deer- hog upper, Both the same style as my m4 .223 wylde upper. Then I will have the other end of the spectrum covered.
My goal is to be able to hunt anything that moves effectively in Ohio with those 2 guns.

 

[rando]

I have been getting emails from a supplier of AR parts and uppers. They have the 450 BM and 458 SOCOM now for $199. Good for deer at shorter ranges or hunting in the brush. I also use my 6.8 SPC . I am thinking about ordering another upper tonight in the 458 SOCOM.

 

[Jim Bridger]

The AR 15 is legal for deer and Antelope in Wyoming . You must use a ⁰60 grs. Bullet or larger.

 

[blaster]

its a pity you can't use the 300 Black Out. in my opinion, its the perfect mid power/range deer cartridge. not real noisy either even without a suppressor.

 

[animalspooker]

Come to Missouri, Mole! You can hunt with anything as long as it's centerfire!

 

[animalspooker]

Here's a good price on .450B and 350L if you're interested. Around $225 complete!

https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/upper-assemblies?spec_caliber=346,473&stock=1

 

[animalspooker]

its a pity you can't use the 300 Black Out. in my opinion, its the perfect mid power/range deer cartridge. not real noisy either even without a suppressor. View attachment 126282 View attachment 126284

Good shot blaster!

 

[Moroco Mole]

Here's a good price on .450B and 350L if you're interested. Around $225 complete!

https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/upper-assemblies?spec_caliber=346,473&stock=1

I love BCA they should make their slogan "Quality Armament for the common man."