Ballistics re: saferoom

Discussion in 'The Powder Keg' started by tootall, Aug 14, 2002.

  1. tootall

    tootall Guest

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    Can someone help? My gun use has been limited to hunting, no way I know where to look for this type of info.
    I`m about to buy a sailboat and float off into the sunrise. Part of the world I`m looking at still has piracy and other crazies.
    1: What type of weapon are the crazies (middle east, Venuzuela, Indonesia) most likely to have ?
    2: What ammo are we looking at
    3: What thickness stainless steel 316 would be needed to create a defence pod (safe room)
    Thanks
     
  2. oneastrix

    oneastrix G&G Newbie

    I'm guessing 7.62X39
     

  3. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    I recently read an article about a South American country, I think it was Venezuela, that was undergoing a major shift in small arms from FN-FAL type rifles to something in .223 (5.56x45mm NATO) There has been a serious concern that their old FAL rifles would land in the hands of drug lords. FAL rifles mean 7.62x51mm NATO, a round with much higher penetration than 5.56 or 7.62x39mm, especially with armor piercing bullets. I have shot a 3/4" thick snowplow blade with a 30-06 AP, which is only slightly more powerful than the 7.62 NATO (also known as 308 Winchester). The 30-06 almost penetrated the blade, and I'd hate to be behind it to suffer the shockwave. The weight of the blade was such that if you tried using it as armor on a boat, you'd run out of capacity before you got any decent protection.

    And the truth is, even if your boat is armored, they could very easily board your boat and get behind it. Truth is, you'd probably only stand a chance if you had superior weaponry and skills for it, and unless you have access to 30 caliber machineguns, you're probably outgunned. Not to mention if they have a 50 cal...
    And by the time they get close enough for you to tell if they're pirates, superior marksmanship at long range probably won't help.
     
  4. PAPA G

    PAPA G G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

    i safe pod might work, but then what??? your locked in the pirates loot the boat, than maybe sink it afterward with you still locked in. and there isn't 9-1-1 on the high seas. i think Soldier of Fortune magazine had an article about Malaysian pirates; you might want to try to find it. they are armed with everything from homemade shotguns to the latest armament. then theres the legal hassle's of going into a port or territory with weapons, the rich American will pay a hefty fine and or jail for possesion. though it sounds like a great adventure, theres lotsa pitfalls.:assult:
     
  5. tootall

    tootall Guest

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    Thanks for the messages so-far. More backround:
    The boat is a 42' catamaran. Easily capable of carrying 4000lbs, so a couple of hundred in a stern pod is still a possibility. Engine compartment in the stern of each hull 5' wide x 4' high. Armoring the rear wall, with a bit on the sides would mean 30 sq.ft. Dupont referred me to a professional, Kevlar/ceramic would weigh in excess of 9 lbs.ft and costs $175 sq.ft. I have a budy who fabricates stainless steel (marine).
    Are we talking military (metal jacket) ammo ?
    Maybe I should just bring some of you guys with me :)
     
  6. tootall

    tootall Guest

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    re:your suggestions so far

    Its probably more dangerous to walk in downtown Detroit than to sail 30 miles off, along the coast of Brazil or Columbia.

    I'm not looking for trouble or trying to take on someones Navy but sooner or later a fishing boat out on the job will decide they need my stuff more than I do. A "defence pod" is meant to give me reasonable protection while I deal with the problem.

    A sailboat can maintain a specific heading with an autopilot. Any danger will always be coming from the rear.

    (Sail)boats are allowed guns for self defence while travelling as long as they are reported to the authorities and locked away when in port. I will be able to defend myself against typical agression.
     
  7. PAPA G

    PAPA G G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

    will you put me in your will???;) :rolleyes: :D
     
  8. Klaus

    Klaus Guest

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    A "safe room" will not protect you for long. They will simply board your boat and help themselves, with the option of flushing you out if they feel like it. Or, they coulfd just sink you afterwards. The best thing to do, IMHO is to call for help, then open fire if they get too close. In international waters, and many countries, it is legal to keep firearms on a boat or ship for self defence. A semiautomatic rifle, at least .30 caliber, backed up with a 12 ga. should be reasonable. Remember, the shotgun can also shoot flares.
     
  9. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    At least 30 caliber? What's the next step, 50? I do agree, though. 7.62x51mm NATO is probably a good idea. A G3, M1a, or FAL type rifle is probably the best way to go. If you stop by the US, pick up a few hi-cap magazines, as I understand them to be illegal in Canada.
     
  10. Mike southers

    Mike southers Guest

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    Also, to keep the weight down and floatability up, I would sandwich thicknesses of stainless with foam between them. Say two 3/16ths sheets with an inch of dense foam.
    Be sure you can repair any hull damage to your boat. No since winning against the bad guys and then sinking. The 12 gauge can also fire tracer rounds or flares (might as well set them on fire).
    Definitely go magazine fed and .308/7.62 x 39. Be it M1A, AR-10/ SKS whatever.
     
  11. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    For worldwide versatility AND power, FN-FAL or variant is definitely the way to go, and HK-G3 variant is not far behind.
     
  12. tootall

    tootall Guest

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    REALITY CHECK !!
    A reply to some of your concerns:

    I should have refered to a "defence pod" and not "safe pod". It is meant as a safe area during the eventual defence of the boat.

    My hunting experience has been 308 Winchester 1-4X scope 180 grn. for moose, and 12 guage pump for duck. They will be with me in case I see a "moose" or a "goose" out there in the ocean.

    The boat won't sink unless it is shot under the waterline. A bit difficult to do.

    You have all pretty well agreed on the caliber the "pod" might have to defend against ie: 7.4 or 7.6. I will assume it will be military issue therefore JACKETED.

    ***Do any of you out there have access to such ammo? It can not be purchased here in Canada. I tried inquiring on my last trip to New York, the gun shops don't even want to talk if you aren't from NY ( post 911 !! )

    ***Would anyone be willing to test it out for me if I sent them some sample pieces of stainless?

    Thanks again
     
  13. PAPA G

    PAPA G G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

    your not allowed FMJ ammo??? i didn't know that!!! is that for all calibers or just 7.62 nato???:confused:
     
  14. tootall

    tootall Guest

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    Ah ! Again my lack of knowledge shines like dead flashlite.

    Called a gunsmith to make sure. FMJ or copper exterior is allowed, but not for hunting. Hunting =Soft point only. The steel cored FMJ is only available to military.

    Some other strangeties up here in the cold white north: government permit required to purchase guns or ammunition, all guns must be registered, pistol licences quite difficult to get, barrels must be at least 105 mm (4.13 inches). No .32 or .25 caliber allowed, no carrying unless required by profession, and to the best of my recollection, no full automatics, and 18" barrel on shotguns + 30" overall.

    Strangely enough, I, or my daughter, can walk the streets of Montreal, one of the larger cities, at midnight without the slightest worry of being attacked or robbed. Must be a Candian thing!?

    So, anyone out there with steel core want to shoot some stainless steel bunnies ?
     
  15. PAPA G

    PAPA G G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

    good to hear you can walk the streets at night, must be the lack of forced immigrants with years of government support!!!:rolleyes: :p
     
  16. tootall

    tootall Guest

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    Ah, the "forced immigrant" Yes, the exceptions to the rule. There are a group of "forced immigrants" who do not obey the rules and use pistols as part of their "wealth re-distribution innitiative". However: they hang out in their own neighborhoods, "diss" their own and dont walk around downtown.

    Besides, you have to talk French to live in Montreal, so most of them go to Toronto or Vancouver

    re: years of government support? Yeh I'm fed up too. Why do you think I'm buying a boat and leaving ? I'm tired of paying up to 50% income tax and having a certain part of society living off welfare during the day and dealing drugs at night. They can do without me from now on.

    Back to the subject : Can anyone out there with access to steel cored 30 cal ammo do some testing for me ???
     
  17. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    Steel Cored 30-06 (slightly more powerful than 7.62 NATO) will almost completely penetrate 3/4" of very hard steel. Anything else?
     
  18. PAPA G

    PAPA G G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

    I WONDER IF.............

    tootall ever built his floating fortress???:confused:
     
  19. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    Good question. I myself doubt it.
     
  20. oneastrix

    oneastrix G&G Newbie

    I remember that thread. Kind of an odd subject, don't ya think. Sure is neat to think about though!