Barrel heat vs accuracy

Discussion in 'The Powder Keg' started by BattleRifleG3, Sep 9, 2002.

  1. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    Ok, I was advised that my groups would shrink if I waited a minute or two between shots so that the barrel would cool. This seemed to improve the accuracy on my Centurion 99. I was wondering what barrels out there would group consistently in rapid fire. I figure, if an HK will group 4" in rapid fire and an AK will do the same anyway, maybe an AK would be a good choice? I'd assume that the slower velocity of the Soviet cartridge would heat the barrel less, but what about AKs in 223? Would I have to treat a VEPR II like an AR in order to get the AR accuracy that they boast?
     
  2. Calvin

    Calvin G&G Evangelist

    BRG3, if you are going for reliability with acceptable accuracy, then go with the AK-series. If you want reliabilty with great accuracy under sustained fire, go with the HK. Barrel heat affects every firearm differently. AK's will never be up to the HK accuracy standards, and an HK will never be able to take the abuse an AK does. Define your needs, and make the best possible choice you can.:)
     

  3. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    Well, I have experience with HK. But I've never fired, much less grouped a high grade AK such as the VEPR II. I've heard of 2" from a rare few SAR-1s, with 4-6" more normal. My G3 gets 4-6" with NATO ammo fired as fast as I can aim. I once shot a slightly over 1moa group with Winchester 308 Match fired about 1 shot per 2 minutes.
    I'm trying to find out what rifle would be best for emptying half a mag rapid fire, then making a surgical 200yd shot. Accuracy is my primary objective in getting a 223, but 1moa is probably as well as I could expect to shoot under less than ideal conditions, probably not even that well. So if a VEPR II can give me 1.5" rapid or slow, and an AR will give me 1/4" slow and 3" rapid, VEPR II it is.
    Other considerations include Daewoo and Bushmaster M17.
    Although I was wondering if a VEPR II in 7.62x39mm might actually group better under rapid fire than a 223, since the bullets are slower and heat the barrel less.
    In any case, it'll be nearly a year before I can afford any of the above, if even.
     
  4. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    I just checked the www.robarm.com, they've gotten just over 1/2moa with the 223, closer to 7/8moa with 762x39. And that's with open sites. Sure that may not be every rifle, sure that may not be me, but 1.5" doesn't seem that far fetched. So the question is will the AK keep that accuracy under rapid fire better than a Bushy M17, Daewoo, DPMS or Olympic AR which can be obtained for roughly the same cost?
     
  5. Calvin

    Calvin G&G Evangelist

    I can't tell you becauase I haven't shot one before. It's possible, but it would be a far stretch to rapid fire 15-20 rounds from any rifle and then maintain extreme accuracy at 200 yards. The only rifle I have seen that can maintain it's accuracy with a hot barrel is the NDM-86.
    Sorry I can't help you on this one, but, if you do figure it out, let me know, huh?
     
  6. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    What is the NDM-86? Sounds like an AK. If so, it may be a close relative of the VEPR II and may answer my question.
     
  7. lefty o

    lefty o G&G Evangelist

    9,224
    61
    mn
    battlerifle i think ive seen you've got a garand right? well with a little accurizing it will be very accurate, even hot. this weekend i fired over 100 rnds fairly rapidly then from a kneeling position with a sling put 3 clips into 2" at 100yds with danish surplus. now granted its a match grade gun, but a standard gun with minor tweaks should keep em in the 3" range with a hot barrel.
     
  8. Calvin

    Calvin G&G Evangelist

    The NDM-86 is the Chinese Dragunov. It's in .308 and have been known to shoot 2 moa at 200 yards with a hot barrel.
     
  9. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    Now I know what you mean. I've heard of a few problems with the NDM-86, and a few recalls by CDNN for repairs. I would stay far away from that one anyway, as parts availability and interchangeability is nonexistent. And forget about Hi-cap mags.

    What I'm basically looking at are accurate semi-autos. If you're going to treat it like a bolt action, might as well get a bolt action. Right now I'm leaning towards VEPR II. Can't be worse under heat than an AR, and costs less. And far more durable. If I can just get it to use AR-15 mags I'll have it made.

    That's maybe 4th or 5th on my wish list. No one hold their breath. Of course if y'all wanted to buy one for me to test, I'd be happy to...
     
  10. Calvin

    Calvin G&G Evangelist

    The recall of the NDM's was based on 2 rifles that had the same problem. My brother-in-law has one and it really shoots great.
    The VEPR is a good choice. They are dependable and, as you said, relatively inexpensive. As far as it using AR mags, I much rather prefer the AK mags, because they do not dent as easily, and they are more proliferant on the market today. JMHO :)
     
  11. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    Well the VEPR IIs in 223 would definitely take the AK-74 mags, but for interchangeability and compactness I'd like to use AR mags. The Hesse converts use an adaptor, there's also one out there for Galil. One for a VEPR II doesn't sound too far fetched. Presumably the Hesse adaptor would work since it replaces the same mags, but maybe the Saiga converts are a little different.