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Discussion in 'The Powder Keg' started by magic9418, Aug 9, 2002.

  1. magic9418

    magic9418 G&G Newbie

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    Hello,
    I was wondering what was the best brand, that is manufactur(russain,romainian,china.ect) was in the market for one your info would be greatly appreciated.
    thanks
    magicman
     
  2. Calvin

    Calvin G&G Newbie

    They are all good choices. The Romanians are the most common right now, and at pretty reasonable prices.
    Bulgarians are considered the closest to a Russian AKM. They are all milled and are very well made. Expensive, to say the least. They are around, but you have to look for them.
    Russian AKM's are very rare, as there were not many allowed in the states. There are some AK's out there with Russian parts but an American receiver. Haven't heard much on them, but they appear to be okay.
    The Chinese are a different story altogether. The Poly-Techs were the best of the Chinese models. They were milled and looked/performed very well. VERY pricey, if you can find one. The Norincos were stamped receivers with pinned barrels and were generally of lesser quality than the Poly's. They function nonetheless, and can really take a beating.
    Any model you choose will be a good one. If you pick up a Romanian SAR, be sure to check the front sight to make sure it's not canted. Mine isn't, but there's been a lot of posts here about guys who bought one with a canted front sight.
    It's not much, but hope it helps......
     

  3. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    By the time Russia was allowed to import guns to the US, the bans were already in place. So the only Russian AKs being imported are the Saiga and Vepr series, each produced independently in completely separate factories. Both take low cap mags specifically designed for that rifle.
    Saigas are based on the AKM receiver and are imported by EAA, European American Armory.
    Veprs are based on the stronger, heavier RPK receiver and are imported by Robinson Armory.
    Now you say "Wait a minute, don't they all come in hi-cap versions?" Yes, and after the conversions, the two kinds are like night and day.
    The Saigas are converted by Hesse Arms and have their trigger group moved forward, their mag well ground up, and a really lousy feed ramp put in place. The new pistol grip stocks are fastened to this choppy receiver. I've heard people find plenty of metal chips inside new rifles. Hesse gives no warrantee. Hesse also has the gall to put a fancy looking stock on and name this model after a famous eastern block gun of infinitely higher quality. For example, they'll keep the hideous Saiga wooden forend but stick on a clubfoot buttstock and call it an RPK, stick on a skeleton buttstock and call it a PKM, and stick a misaligned thumbhole stock to an unaltered receiver and call it a Dragunov. They stick slightly different sites on and call it a Valmet.

    The Veprs are converted by Robinson Armory, who also produces a fine 223 rifle based on the Stoner 63. These Veprs are unaltered except for the installation of requisite US parts, including a fine synthetic forearm, pistol grip and buttstock. The P-grip and stock are of one piece, but the grip is still distinct, unlike thumbhole stocks. The finish is great. The only drawback of these guns is that they're a little too much gun, in my opinion. Even the shortened VEPR IIK model was barrel heavy. Of course that means durability, but how much do you need if it's already an AK? And they do cost money, but not as much as one would think. Retail is about $550. The Arsenal AKs cost much more. I would get a VEPR II over them any day.
    Personally, my #1 choice would be a Norinco MAK-90. I'm one of the few people who prefers the Norinco thumbhole stocks over the Romanian pistol grips, because the single piece offers more rigidity. Also, I like the larger MAK-90 buttpads over the standard AK buttstocks, which I think are too small.

    Bottom line is shop around, examine in person everything you can, pick them up, try them out if you get the opportunity, decide what you want, and buy it. DO NOT SETTLE FOR LESS THAN YOU WANT BASED ON MONEY. That was my big mistake. If you want it, you're eventually going to buy it, so you might as well skip the money consuming stops along the way. If you can afford it, buy it, be happy, and be content with what you have. If you can't, save until you can. If you don't, you'll never be happy until you get it, and may pick up many others trying to fill the void.
     
  4. Eric

    Eric G&G Newbie

    673
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    USA
    I'm looking at a FAC Wholesale catalog and they have Russian AKs. They accept the 30 round magazines and have the AK flash hider (AK74 type) with a 16 or 20 inch barrel for $329 and $324 respectively. Thes look like awesome AKs, has anyone purchased one of these? They are not much more than a Romanian.
     
  5. AR-tim

    AR-tim G&G Newbie

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    WI
    Not 100% sure here, but wouldn't that flash-hider be illegal?? Unless it is some sort of pre-ban, but that would be mighty cheap for one....Right?
     
  6. David N

    David N G&G Newbie

    I believe the "flash hider" on an AK74 is actually a muzzle brake. Which I believe is legal on an AK47 post ban.
     
  7. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    The Russian AKs in FAC have muzzle brakes, that is correct. But BEWARE, those so called "Russian AKs" are merely converted Saiga rifles with NO WARRANTY. I would get the version with the long handguard simply because that's one less thing for Hesse to screw up. Unless you know of another company that's doing the conversion.
     
  8. Calvin

    Calvin G&G Newbie

    I have heard horror stories of the Hesse conversions. Every person who I talked to that had one said to avoid them like the plague. I can't speak from personal experience, but 5 out of 5 people said that, so I would think there's something there.

    Also, no AK-series rifle had a flash hider on them. The short AKSU-74 required a special muzzle brake to help burn the powder because the barrel was so short. If you want to try something pretty cool, get one of the AMD-65 muzzle brakes. Global Trades has them. I bought one for my Poly, and it totally changes the report of the bullet. The ad said it produces a demoralizing noise and they are not kidding one bit!! It really gets the attention at the range. I wish I coud describe it, but it's too dificult.
    Check out www.globaltrades.com. They have some really nice AK's for sale from time to time. Prices are pretty good, too.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2002
  9. Klaus

    Klaus G&G Newbie

    I have a Hesse AK in .223 and the only problem was chips in the action when I got it. I bet if everyone would strip the rifles and clean them before trying to shoot them, most of the problems would go away.
     
  10. Armorer

    Armorer Guest

    They are all crap, don't kid yourself.

    Sloppy, Loose, close in fire surpression firearm is all they are.

    And please call is a AKS what they are, Not 47's.

    Can ya tell I'm in a real good mood.

    Your a new guy here. Why do you want one? Starting a war somewhere? Buy an FAL.
     
  11. Klaus

    Klaus G&G Newbie

    What I have is based on the AK101, which is a AK74 variant.
     
  12. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    As harsh as armorer is, I have to agree with him. I respectfully think Klaus is the only person with good experience from Hesse. You could get a CETME cheaper, or a FAL or G3 for a little more which is well worth it. CETMEs don't have the best reliability record, but they're WAY above Hesse, and Century is better about standing behind their product.
    If you're set on an AK, the Romanian SARs and WASRs are far better than Hesse's Saiga converts. Go a little higher and get a Norinco if you want, or higher yet and get a VEPR II or an Arsenal AK.
    Or get a Saiga for much less and deal with the 10 round mags and standard stock.

    Hey wait a minute, I haven't seen any reply posts from the guy who asked the question. You still around, Magic9418?
     
  13. oneastrix

    oneastrix G&G Newbie

    Armomer is right, they're not 47's at all. But they're not all crap, in fact some are quite reliable. I believe in having something that shoots the same round as the enemy (Red Dawn Syndrome). 7.62X39 seems to do it. Of course, I chose a Mini 30 that I got a heck of a deal on.

    A true Fal will run over a grand, right? Do they all shoot .308 Nato? Talking about two different qualitlies of firearm, and two different calibers of ammo if I'm not mistaken. (Which I very well may be).
     
  14. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    I suppose true FALs will be a bit pricey, but parts guns can be had for under $500, and SOG has them for $390 dealer cost. A mechanically inclined individual could assemble one from a parts kit and receiver for $300ish. True AKs will cost quite a bit as well. The AKs out there are mainly parts guns themselves, especially the Saiga converts.
     
  15. Calvin

    Calvin G&G Newbie

    The AK's in the states today are copies of the AKM, just like the CETME's, FAL's, SKS's and most other so-called "issue" weapons are commercial copies of a parent weapon. There have been no original miltary issue AK's ever brought into the states for sale to John Q. Public. They have all been commercially manufactured weapons. FAL's have different receivers than the original because they would otherwise be illegal, too. The CETME's are also copies, as are the new HK91's built on an American receiver.
    Whether you like them or hate them, the commercial copies of the AK are just as reliable as the original. They were never intended to be a sniper weapon. They were originally designed to throw a lot of lead down range at a maximum combat distance of 400 meters with complete reliabilty and be able to withstand extreme temperature differences, all the while being soldier-proof. Looking at them in the way they were intended to be used, they are about the best you can get.
    If you compare them to the FAL's, CETME's, HK's, M1A's, and the like, you are being unfair. It's like comparing a Dodge 1-ton Ram to a Kenworth T-600. JMHO
     
  16. Mandy

    Mandy FREE CITIZEN Forum Contributor

    :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult:

    Mine is a Maadi from CENTURY ARMS.
    It has a Choate Dragunov polimer stock set, a norinco receiver cover with some scope rail and a 7x scope on top. When the 40 rnder is on it looks intimidating to say the least (thinking on buying a drum).
    This one has the front sight post canted but I know where to aim to hit my target and the scope takes care of precision shots.
    Keep in mind this is an AK not a REM 700.
    As for performance, it digest and spits every crapy ammo that I put through it, even wolf misfires from my friend's MINI 30.
    It has never jammed nor misfire I can't explain such reliability, I can fire the entire 40rnds pulling as fast as I can and it empties the mag every time.
    I haven't tried dunking it in mud but maybe some day I will just to make sure.
    My only other gun that exibits such reliability is the G23, that is out of the box, I you tinker with it too much it can let you down in the moment of truth.
    As for HESSE, my Century G3 came with lots of metal shavings inside the receiver when I got it. I think that Century should have cheked this before shipping the rifle, I think it is HESSE because it isn't aluminum receiver but it shoots fine, no jams so far (500 rnds).

    :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult:
     
  17. tonto

    tonto G&G Newbie

    oneastrix be careful in thinking our enemy will be using 7.62x39. Lately I think any one overrunning this here United States may possibly be wearing NATO patches and shooting either 5.56 or 7.62 NATO back at you. Lets just hope our boys in green will be slinging as much lead back at 'em as we will!
     
  18. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    I agree very much with that statement, about the kind of ammo that will be coming at us. One reason I bought a G3 as my first semi centerfire.

    But don't count on getting a compatible gun, because chances are they'll be using AUGs, FAMASs, MP5s, G36s, and other such weaponry that is unavailable to us. Now why is it they don't let those in but many versions of the AK are still coming in? Very interesting...
    Although an SL8 will require a whole new mag well, I hear a G36 can take AR mags with a field conversion, and I doubt the opposite is true. Very interesting indeed.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2002
  19. Mandy

    Mandy FREE CITIZEN Forum Contributor

    :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult:

    I guess I'll have to buy a .223 cal., a 9mm and, don't say it please, a .45 1911 aggggh.
    How I'll explain this to my girlfriend who don't like guns?
    Hummm........

    :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: