Better rifles or better cartridges....?

Discussion in 'Rimfire Rifles' started by Mowgli T., Apr 1, 2020.

  1. Moroco Mole

    Moroco Mole G&G Evangelist

    I like that analogy. I think I might just start using it. I have a Chinese SKS that gets 1 MOF. :D
    Ye I like that. I like that Lot. :cool::D
    Rocky7 likes this.
  2. Mowgli T.

    Mowgli T. G&G Evangelist

    There was a story about a gathering of guru's from the gun rags. The idea was for these people to bring their Super Accurate Tack divers for some sort of shoot out. Turned out, would you believe, to be a very bad day for these guys. Some of the rifles, so the story goes, would not menace the frying pan. Sunlight is the best antiseptic.
    BigEd63 and Moroco Mole like this.

  3. TXplt

    TXplt Gun Toting Boeing Driver Forum Contributor

    Some days I'm awesome and some days I suck. The key to choosing these days is never take the position that I'm there to impress anyone with anything. I found this out while honking my horn about my reloading prowess having a friend over and the first round out the pipe was a squib (requiring pounding out). Never did figure out why (there was plenty of unburnt powder, the brass was fine, and the primer popped--the rest of the lot was perfect--so it was probably just God teaching me a lesson in humility).

    But it's fun getting better and it makes the lousy days less worse as time goes on so that my worst days now are better than my best days of the past.

    To the OP, I think it's both. Or more appropriately more consistency in manufacture as technology has improved (not that someone 100 years or more ago couldn't build something masterful it's just that there isn't as much wide variation because tech can make finding small inconsistencies easy and cheap and there are better alloys and materials available now).

    Not much different than aviation; piston radials are magnificent wonders but were prone to parts failures just due to the multitude of so many moving intricate parts--and required a great deal of manual care both in operation AND in maintenance. Turbines are simple and powerful with more power available for more time between overhauls. Materials technology facilitated this. Same as for navigation devices; in the 30s-60s there were great advances in instrumentation but still these early navigation devices were hard to interpret and prone to confusion, interference, or failure. And when airplanes get lost they tend to run into things. Today a simple (relatively cheap) electronic box can provide precise information and airplanes run into things much less often. So I think it's the same concept in firearm, optic, and ammo manufacturing.
    Moroco Mole and Mowgli T. like this.
  4. OneShotKill

    OneShotKill G&G Evangelist

    For rimfires I have a cheap suggestion. I own dozens of scoped rifles, so expensive glass is not an option for me. That is the now discontinued old Tasco World Class scopes, about $50 each and bought several for my rimfires. They worked so well I probably have 10 of them now, some 10-20 years old. Not one has failed and now I put them on some bolt guns. Probably killed 15 deer and goats with them now. I once had one on my backup rifle on a trip to Wyoming. My Winchester model 70 with a fine walnut stock suddenly split. I shot an antelope with the 243 and cheap scope at 429 yards and another one at an estimated 275. That scope is still on that gun and working fine. FWIW
    Moroco Mole likes this.
  5. Mowgli T.

    Mowgli T. G&G Evangelist

    Sometimes I wonder if some of the modern 22 rifles are accurate by fortunate accident. You and I would probably agree that there are barrels made with extra care. There are barrels that are not. I think many makers crank out barrels with relatively little concern. Their understanding is that few people really use the guns. Gun is found to be inaccurate-the frying pan is safe. Guns go to customer service where the gun is fixed or replaced. Is this new technology really fully employed? This comes across as if the manufactures are taking a crap-shoot on shooting quality. It's cheaper to fix than investing man hours for QA. Just speculation.

    Another issue is the frying pan criteria some gun companies. Hitting the frying pan is good enough. Send the gun back to the owner.
    Last edited: May 10, 2020
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  6. noelekal

    noelekal G&G Evangelist

    OOOooo... Mowgli, those are fine.

    A Springfield 1922 lives here. Shot small bore matches with it many years ago. It's so accurate off a bench rest. While it would be most gratifying "under glass" I won't scope it at this stage of its existence for it's considered a collectible, but wow what a rifle!

  7. Mowgli T.

    Mowgli T. G&G Evangelist

    My rifle has the straight NRA stock. It was unaltered. The rifles were sold at the same time as the O3A3's. An old acquaintance gave me the extra magazine. As you pointed out, these rifles were extremely accurate. The extra stock was advertised in the Shotgun News. The extra stock was correct.

    I was involved in building some wildcat varmint rifles about this time. We were talking about these rifles to our gunsmith. The gunsmith pulled out a drawer that had, it looked like, almost enough parts to build and action plus miscellaneous hardware. No telling how much that drawer full of parts would bring today. I have had several 03's that had been put in these 1922 stocks. It was not hard to tell the parts were mismatched. I really enjoyed shooting that 1922. Groups using the iron sights were excellent.

    Our gunsmith had three or four O'Hara attachments for fine adjustments on 03 sights. He and the other real honest to God gunsmith are gone now. These guys have been replaced by parts replacers.
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  8. Mowgli T.

    Mowgli T. G&G Evangelist

    We tried to have our weekly match. The wind was blowing fifteen miles per hour+ We cut it short. The range is nice but between two hills. The wind moves through there like a whirlwind. I was on a roll such as it is when the whirlwind started. The new CZ 22's are starting to show up. Those are impressive looking guns that shoot very well. Actually, that is pretty consistent for CZ products.

    Added: Whirlwind means wind blowing two different directions at once for the shooter. This came up from the benchrest shooters in the group. They were sharing about their flags in the Saturday's match.
    Last edited: May 12, 2020
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  9. BigEd63

    BigEd63 G&G Evangelist

    My Mossberg 144, older rifle new scope (Nikon Rimfire) combo. 100yd line Crowder Conservation Area Range.

    A bit breezy that day but not too bad.
    Seems to like CCI MINI Mags for the long shots and Quiet works best for my AR 500 mini Silhouette in the back yard at approximately 35 yes. Sorry no pics yet for that.
    I'm tempted to go up to MO to shoot under their covered range but the winds sucky here no telling about there today.
    noelekal and Mowgli T. like this.
  10. BigEd63

    BigEd63 G&G Evangelist

    Well I ended up going
    Crappy weather with a nasty wet cross wind.
    Bad for shooting 22lr but great to beat cabin fever. View attachment 142714

    This is why I dislike the Nikon scope here. Zero stadia lines or mildots for windage holds. All attempts at Kentucky windage

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 12, 2020
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  11. Mowgli T.

    Mowgli T. G&G Evangelist

    We had a good shoot with no wind. This was near history making at the range. I was shooting my BSEV Savage .22. The scope in a vintage Intensity 6.5-20x44. The cartridges are CCI SV. The point of aim on the 100 yard target was the top row to get rounds into the bottom row target. Those stick on targets are 3" in diameter. The thumbtack were near bullet proof taking hits and not going through the paper. It was a good day.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 18, 2020
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  12. noelekal

    noelekal G&G Evangelist

    Woo hoo!

    It was a good day for shooting for you.
    Mowgli T. likes this.
  13. Mowgli T.

    Mowgli T. G&G Evangelist

    Thanks for the kind words. The world is full of Savage haters. My experience is that Savage 22's are top notch. My shooting partner was shooting an older Mark II wrecking the thumbtacks.
    noelekal likes this.
  14. noelekal

    noelekal G&G Evangelist

    Don't cha just love .22 rifles?!!!
    Mowgli T. likes this.
  15. Mowgli T.

    Mowgli T. G&G Evangelist

    I have to work for the 22 rifles not to be an unmanageable addiction. Talk about serious money check out the bench rest guys.
  16. noelekal

    noelekal G&G Evangelist

    Yeah, that's the trouble with the gun hobby. The acquisition and the support there of mounts up to be serious money.
  17. Mowgli T.

    Mowgli T. G&G Evangelist

    Being retired will put the brakes buying and accumulating. Fast.
  18. jerry

    jerry Since 03-15- 2002 Forum Contributor

    There used to be a group of retired guys at the range. I think most have passed on now. I’ve been a member for 25 years so I loose track of time out there.

    Any rate, I used to skip out in the morning sometimes when I had shift work. They would be out there drinking coffee and chatting. As far as shooting, maybe one of them would pull a trigger every 10 minutes or so and go back to visiting.
    Great bunch of guys, miss them.

    Sent from my iPhone using Gun and Game mobile app
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  19. Mowgli T.

    Mowgli T. G&G Evangelist

    I hear you. All my mentors have past. The guy that was my gunsmith friend died of Altzheimer's. I had gone into his shop to buy a forend screw for a Model 12 Winchester. He looked at me funny explaining he made screws. As in he did not stock screws. He had converted that Mauser action in the aviator. These guys taught me how to reload on and on.

    My group today: The current shooters are some faster than your guys but are otherwise the same. The oldest member was in the RAF in WW2. Next oldest was at the Chosen reservoir.
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  20. rando

    rando G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

    I simply like the older 22 rifles. They are quality made and not like much of the newer rifle. I also like wood stocks and every one of mine has wood. I have been collecting and accumulating older 22 cal. rifles for years now. I have many Mossberg's, Remington's, Winchesters, Marlins, Savage, Springfield and also Wards, Sears and so forth . I also have a few Romanian M69 Trainers. I like the older Bolt actions and seem to all be accurate but also have lever guns and semis . I like the craftsmenship, weight and quality of them no matter what.
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