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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello all, am new here just dropped an intro before popping in here. Am currently in Germany and picked this blunderbuss up at a flea market. Trying to determine age, or possible manufacturer or frankly any details about it. Can add better pics as needed. More looking for age, value would be cool but I don’t plan on selling so not as important.
165654
 

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I have seen quite a few blunderbuss firearms but never a pistol type. Also flint lock. Well it was definitely made to take out many in close quarters. Maybe used for sailing infantry.
 

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Jgood: Sir; perhaps

www.cowanauctions.com

Middle Eastern Flintlock Blunderbus Pistol
1.75" bore diameter, 10" octagonal to round barrel length, NSN. Top of barrel flat marked "London" above proof marks. Engraved lock and hammer. Brass furniture with checkered stock. Butt stock with carved floral design on left side....
www.cowanauctions.com

474
Middle Eastern Flintlock Blunderbus Pistol

1.75" bore diameter, 10" octagonal to round barrel length, NSN. Top of barrel flat marked "London" above proof marks. Engraved lock and hammer. Brass furniture with checkered stock. Butt stock with carved floral design on left side.
Condition:
The barrel has a plum patina. The lock, hammer and frizzen have a plum to gray patina. The stock has a couple hairline cracks on the right side. There is a chip to the stock where the lock meets the wood.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Jgood: Sir; perhaps

www.cowanauctions.com

Middle Eastern Flintlock Blunderbus Pistol
1.75" bore diameter, 10" octagonal to round barrel length, NSN. Top of barrel flat marked "London" above proof marks. Engraved lock and hammer. Brass furniture with checkered stock. Butt stock with carved floral design on left side....
www.cowanauctions.com

474
Middle Eastern Flintlock Blunderbus Pistol

1.75" bore diameter, 10" octagonal to round barrel length, NSN. Top of barrel flat marked "London" above proof marks. Engraved lock and hammer. Brass furniture with checkered stock. Butt stock with carved floral design on left side.
Condition:
The barrel has a plum patina. The lock, hammer and frizzen have a plum to gray patina. The stock has a couple hairline cracks on the right side. There is a chip to the stock where the lock meets the wood.
for sure some similarities
 

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Jgood: Sir; perhaps

www.cowanauctions.com

Middle Eastern Flintlock Blunderbus Pistol
1.75" bore diameter, 10" octagonal to round barrel length, NSN. Top of barrel flat marked "London" above proof marks. Engraved lock and hammer. Brass furniture with checkered stock. Butt stock with carved floral design on left side....
www.cowanauctions.com

474
Middle Eastern Flintlock Blunderbus Pistol

1.75" bore diameter, 10" octagonal to round barrel length, NSN. Top of barrel flat marked "London" above proof marks. Engraved lock and hammer. Brass furniture with checkered stock. Butt stock with carved floral design on left side.
Condition:
The barrel has a plum patina. The lock, hammer and frizzen have a plum to gray patina. The stock has a couple hairline cracks on the right side. There is a chip to the stock where the lock meets the wood.
Craig Sir, You never cease to amaze me with your findings and info and knowledge.
 

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Technically this is a snaphaunce rather than a true flintlock. The bad news is that that narrows it down to a time period between the 16th Century and within the last 20 years in parts of North Africa.

Now, here's the weirdness:
1. The lock plate appears to be of the Swedish or Austrian pattern, more strangely, the plate, at least, appears to be mid 17th Century.

2. The frizzen is a really poorly made replacement that does not match the hammer.

3. The hammer itself is really unique. It is almost a cross between a snaphaunce and a doglock, except that the dog comes behind the hammer. I have never seen one exactly like it. This is the least primitive part of the gun, and I wonder if it was salvaged from something else since there are so many empty holes on the plate where the earlier lock probably fit.

4. The way the stock is banded to the barrel is the 17th to 19th Century Ottoman pattern, but this thing is far too crude to be from a more affluent area of Ottoman influence.

5. The shape of the stock is most common for 18th or 19th Century.

This all pretty much means I can't be much help at all. We are looking at a 300 year old Western European lock plate on a blunderbuss that shows distinct Ottoman influence.
The gestalt design shows aspects that can be narrowed down to a 200 year period.
Based on design influence we can narrow it down to this general area:
165657



If I was forced to give a guess at where this thing was made I would pick North Africa or the Balkans, but since I can't even figure out WHEN it was made, I would be afraid to venture that loose of a guess.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
@PaleHawkDown seriously thank you for all the information. Honestly the mystery of makes me like it even more. I picked it up because of the oddity about it and look. I figured for $60 it would make a great looking desk display. But once I got it home and looked at it I was really intrigued by the design and trying to find out more about it.

I too noticed that there are parts that look very similar to some of the other types of flintlocks but it wasn’t exact or something was off about the match now I can see why. Thanks again to everyone who has replied.
 

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Would I want to put a flint in it for display or is it best to leave it empty?
A flint might be a nice touch for display purposes.
Without powder etc, it isn't going to be a risk factor at all.
 

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A question for you Jgood.
What kind of red tape and paperwork will be involved for you to get that to the states when you come back?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
@ChaZam so I just looked it up and can ship back in my military household goods as long as I do the proper paperwork considering the age and type of weapon. Crisis averted I believe, thanks for bring it up was just excited for the find lol.
 

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That's good news. It will be good to get that sorted out now instead of it being a crisis at the last minute.
 

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I know very little about flintlocks, but that's a common tourist gun from the middle east.
It wasn't made to shoot, and is modern-just aged.
 

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I know very little about flintlocks, but that's a common tourist gun from the middle east.
It wasn't made to shoot, and is modern-just aged.
Not that one, guaranteed. Especially since it isn't a flintlock.

1. The Khyber stuff is usually better quality and they prefer flintlocks or percussion locks. They would not have chosen a snaphaunce/transitional doglock. While both types of lock were used in the Middle East, they are both harder to reproduce.

2. The Middle-Eastern blunderbusses you are talking about are typically pinned or wrapped - not plate-banded in the North African or Ottoman style.

3. When Middle Easterners DO fake doglocks or Snaphaunces as tourist tat, they typically use Jelail-type stocks. In fact, if you look up examples of Middle Eastern blunderbusses they pretty much all fit into either the Jelail style stock, or the English pattern stock.

4. You will never see a Middle Eastern blunderbuss, or indeed any other arm made natively in that region, with that particular lock plate. The fakes are copies of what people see. People don't tend to see late Renaissaince-era lock plates in the Middle East. Certainly they would not re-jigger them the way this has been done. With the exception of the Frizzen and stock, all the components on this appear to be non-native components of certain ages. This thing might be "One piece at a time", and, as a whole might be as late as the 19th Century, but individual components are much older.
 

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As I said- I know little about them.
What I can see is the workmanship is terrible. Bad riveting, no countersunk screws, no inletting for the trigger guard, badly cast barrel, crude shaping of both trigger and guard. I would hope guns were built better than this- or this was the Middle Eastern version of the Hi Point!
 

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As I said- I know little about them.
What I can see is the workmanship is terrible. Bad riveting, no countersunk screws, no inletting for the trigger guard, badly cast barrel, crude shaping of both trigger and guard. I would hope guns were built better than this- or this was the Middle Eastern version of the Hi Point!

No doubt it is bad workmanship, but when you consider only a dozen or so of the several hundred "nations" on the planet that produced firearms from the 19th Century and before had "good" craftsmanship, you might be surprised.

You should see some of the crude Westward Expansion garbage out of America in the early days. Missouri, Southwest Pennsylvania, and the Ohio Valley were rife with blacksmiths and farriers going into the gun business to meet demand.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I just think it looks cool on my shelf. At some point I will take it in and have it looked at most likely for custom reasons as I head back to the states.
 
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