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The family of a middle school student who was given detention for wearing a T-shirt bearing the image of a gun has filed a federal freedom of speech lawsuit against the school district.

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I am not sure just how to express my feelings on this. Our leaders of tomorrow are being taught all the way through school that, not only are guns inherently evil, pictures of the same are just as bad. I'll leave it at that instead of going into a semi-coherent speed typed rant.

There was a case in Boulder Colorado (99% sure it was the republic of boulder, maybe someone else will remember it and be able to track it down) about 2, maybe 3 years ago. A girl was told to go home and change her shirt because it was offensive. The shirt had the Marine Core logo on it. This anti American bias in the schools, at least that is how I see it, has got to stop.

It doesn't stop at grade 12, I get sick to my stomach thinking about the thousands of $$ I spent listening to left wing propaganda in college.

Just my 2 cents.
 

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They must be afraid that the gun will leap from the shirt, and start shooting at random. I have heard stories of children being expelled from school because they were playing cops and robbers at recess. This is just another example of what our country has been reduced to.
 

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Last year there was a case in Rhode Island where a senior who wanted his yearbook picture to be of him in a chain mail hauberk and coif, shouldering a naked greatsword and wearing a broadsword at his waist. The high school banned the photo because of their zero-tolerance weapons policy. The kid in question is a member of a medievalist hobby group, the Society for Creative Anachronism, and that's who he is right now. He and his parents sued the school system.

Even the ACLU came down on the kid's side. (Of course, that's because it was a First Amendment issue, but that's by the way.) The school was pilloried in the media for gross stupidity. The school system recieved thousands of letters (including one from me) sarcastically pointing out a number of hypocrisies:

1. The high school's mascot is an AmRev-era minuteman - whose musket is prominently displayed.
2. The high school allowed the school rifle team to pose with their target rifles. How is it that their firearms are okay under the zero-tolerance policy, while this kid's swords are not?
3. Photos of students with swords in school plays were okay in earlier years. A sword is a sword is a sword.
4. The color guard and the color guard captains are shown in the yearbook with rifles and sabers displayed. How come they can have their weapons in their photos and he can's have a broadsword?

The judge that heard the case last spring didn't even need to consider. He issued his ruling right from the bench after both sides had their say. He ruled the school's banning the kid's photo simply because it had a sword in it was a blatant violation of his First Amendment right of free speech. The school was ordered to include his photo, complete with chainmal, coif and two swords, in the yearbook exactly like all the other senior portrait photos.

I hope the boy in this case clobbers the jackasses in the school administration and collects a whopping great settlement from them. The school system may have a point regarding the presence of actual firearms in the school. But I never heard of a photo on a t-shirt hurting anybody.

And riddle me this: has the school ever given a kid suspension or detention for wearing a t-shirt with a photo of Che Guevara or Mao Tse-Tung on it? Or is wearing those offensive (to me) portraits okay because they are "free speech" protected by the First Amendment?
 

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This is the "Zero Tolerance" program in action. The administrators love it because it gives them a ready answer to angry parents. Such as "I'm sorry, but this is school policy and there is not a thing I can do." Personally, I don't want anyone teaching my grandchildren who thinks a 2nd grader drawing a picture of a gun, two 4th graders playing cowboys during recess and pointing their fingers at each other and saying bang, a teenager wearing a shirt with a picture of a gun or a military logo, or a person bringing a real gun to school all deserve the same punishment. The only person who deserves punishment in this group is the one who brought the real gun to school. Your school board can stop this No Tolerance Policy. Talk to them. If they refuse, vote them out and elect some who will.
 

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This just goes to show how jaded society is. This is yet another example of Political correctness run amok.

I hope the family wins their legal suit against the school and the pays dearly.
 

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i am underage on here, and in 2000 my friends and I were playing cops and robbers and this girl broke her collarbone (she got stiff armed on accident) and they banned all tag related games. all we got to do for a couple weeks was sit outside for 45 minutes and watch the grass grow. it was just taken to far, it just gets ridiculous. life is one big risk, you either live it and have fun or you live in a bubble and watch other people have fun.
 

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All of this stuff would be in the student hand book. They aren't allowed to wear anything drug or alcohol related, gang related, violence related, or anything offensive.

Sorry, but guns equal violence. Lets be realistic here, guns, especially hand guns, are designed to kill people. Not that the guns actually kill people, people kill people, but a gun, a knife, sword, whatever can all be viewed in the same way.

I know I don't see eye to eye on some things with most of the members here, but I don't hold any delusions that guns aren't used for killing. They are plain and simple.

As a gun owner myself, I don't hunt or kill anything. I target shoot, and I love it and get better at it each week. I am already grouping near bullseye hits at 25 yards with my pistol, and only after about 3 months of shooting. Luckily, 9mm ammo is so cheap I can afford to shoot a lot right now. I also have them for self defense. I believe everyone who obeys the law and is a responsible safe gun owner should have the right to own a gun.

However, given our current culture/society, guns have a direct relation to violence, and given how much gun violence is in the media and put in our faces every day I think justifies the means of banning gun related clothing from public schools. I mean what if the kid were wearing a Budweiser or Camel T-shirt? The same thing would have happened
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Now I am not saying it is right or wrong but I guarantee district policy is pretty much along those lines. Now, where do we draw the line? I take it none of you have ever worked in a public school system? Let me tell you, teachers and administrators work their butts off. It is not easy work. I work IT/network admin for a school system and I have a hard enough time keeping up with them sometimes. I see every day how hard it is to deal with all these kids.

So, you create policy to deter some situations. Even though I don't think that would stop or deter violence, I understand their point of view, over worked and under paid and just another issue to deal with. Then you have to deal with every parent, and parents want to blame the schools in a heart beat instead of actually being parents. So, yeah policies like this are not only to protect the students, but the district employees as well.

This particular shirt in question had a military side arm, and a home land security badge and said something about being a terrorist hunter. Well, I can see lots of issues with that shirt being worn, especially with the word terrorist being thrown around a lot these days. Look at the biased opinions towards muslims in general on this forum. Just read through any thread that talks about Islam, you will plainly see grown men making ignorant assumptions about how Muslims are terrorists and can't be trusted.

Now, put all of that into the mind of a teenager. yeah, I think that would just be asking for trouble.
 

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I taught for several years before moving on to IT actually. I still see absolutely no reason to ban images of firearms. The idea that you can't have a picture of a gun, drawn, worn, or otherwise, just helps to vilify guns in the minds of the next generation.
 

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I taught for several years before moving on to IT actually. I still see absolutely no reason to ban images of firearms. The idea that you can't have a picture of a gun, drawn, worn, or otherwise, just helps to vilify guns in the minds of the next generation.

So, to you guns don't create imagery of violence? Guns are designed to kill things. Killing is violent, therefore guns represent violence. It is simple deductive logic at hand here. Like I stated previously, I don't use any of my guns to kill anything; I just target shoot. However, I don't deny the fact that they are designed to kill.

Now, if you are drawing or doing art work with a gun I can see that as being a bit too far. However, the policies are in place to protect everyone. You should surely know that you were at risk teaching with every comment and action you took, and if you took the wrong one it could cost you your career in education. Wearing a gun T-shirt clearly violates the policy of the school because it can be seen as violence.

Where do you draw the line? How do you draw the line? There is no good way to go about it, so you just ban all clothing that represents violence from schools. There is no other efficient way to do that with out having tons of debates and legal issues. So, how do you draw the line?
 

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Thats actually a really good point. I hate how the districts have protected themselves with blanket laws. These laws are not to protect the students, they are to protect the district from lawsuits. If they were in place solely to protect students a lot of things would probably be different. I sincerely doubt we wouldn't be expelling grade-schoolers for steak knives in their lunches, or high schoolers who have a steak knife in their car.

the rest I'll leave alone.
 

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If I get my conceal and carry and forget my gun in my trunk and pull up to a school, I am sure I will be arrested for violation of the no firearms on grounds policy. In my state it is very legal to conceal and carry. That is, if I were to get caught.

Why do you think that is in place? I am very responsible, have no criminal record, pay my taxes, blah blah blah, however, given the instance someone were to see my firearm or perhaps break into my car (which has happened several times in the past here) and found my gun and did something wrong with it, who do you think they would blame? Me, because I left my gun in my trunk of my car, and someone stole it.

Ignorance of the policy or law is not an excuse. If i try to argue in court, oh I wasn't aware that this was a gun free zone, then it is still my fault.

Also, terrorism is a sore subject these days, and muslim kids are picked on. I have seen it with my own eyes. That shirt could have brought trouble. I work for a more urban school district (metal detectors, hall sweeps, lock downs, etc) so I get to see lots of foreign immigrant kids.

Yes, unfortunately you have to be PC, because everyone today is a cry baby and gets all butt hurt about everything. That is just what we have become. A bunch of crybaby premadonas that expect everything to just be handed to us, and that we will live life as a rockstar. You can thank pop culture and lack of education for that one.

AH - cammo is fine, nothing wrong with it
 

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I cans only shake my head in amazement. Most of these kids see far worse images in 90% of the video games they play. From kids getting suspended for having a mullet to kids getting detention for wearing a t-shirt with images of a gun on it. It's pathetic. I suppose kids can no longer play dodge ball because it teaches violence as well right? Give me a break. It definately interferes and prohibits a persons freedom of expression that's for sure.
 

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I cans only shake my head in amazement. Most of these kids see far worse images in 90% of the video games they play. From kids getting suspended for having a mullet to kids getting detention for wearing a t-shirt with images of a gun on it. It's pathetic. I suppose kids can no longer play dodge ball because it teaches violence as well right? Give me a break. It definately interferes and prohibits a persons freedom of expression that's for sure.

Well, break it down and deduct where this all stemmed from? People are scared to death of school shootings, and how do you prevent it? You can't prevent it, so they come up with lots of policies to try force kids to play nice together.

It is a lose:lose situation, but if you can come up with a better answer there is a great career waiting for you in education administration.

Like I said earlier, where do you draw the line?
 

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Detention was all he got? Last year my daughter, a 9th grader then, was suspended for 2 days for wearing....of all things.....a hoodie! It was a plain burgundy hoodie and she happened to walk in from the cold with the hoodie over her head, and was immediately suspended....her first violation. Students in her district are not only banned from wearing hoodies of any kind; they cannot wear two different shoelaces (must match) & it cannot be in any neon colors; absolutely nothing on shirts....of any kind; pants cannot bag below the waist and undergarments exposed(I understand that); no mini-skirts, spaghetti straps or midriff clothes for the girls (I understand that, as well)- the list goes on and on; reasoning behind all this...according to her district's board of education-its to deter any gang related activities or the formation of such, amongst other things. The parents did try and dispute some of the new guidelines, but to no avail. In my daughter's case, ignorance is not defense and it was up to her father to remain cognizant of school policy (I am a non-custodial mother by choice..not by court decree, but that's another story)...but a suspension of 2 days for wearing a plain hoodie into the school (and a first offense)!! C'mon, now............
 

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Frankly, I'd draw the line heading in a very different direction than the wimpoids who are shit-scared of lawsuits are drawing it.

First thing: I would institute the Eddie Eagle program at the elementary school level. I would accompany this with a nice, dramatic demonstration of what a bullet does, to wit, blowing up a can of tomato juice or exploding a half-gallon milk jug. (The summer I taught rifle & shotgun at a summer camp for rich boys, I rigged up such a demonstration to show that guns are not toys. It put the fear of God into them and made it much easier to teach them firearms safety and marksmanship.) Attendance as in mandatory. If the bleeding heart liberal parents objected, I'd tell them, "Sure. Your kid does not have to attend this assembly. Just sign this release to that effect. Oh yes; the form includes a clause that if your widdle pwecious is killed or wounded by a firearm, you agree to hold the school system, the principal, all teachers, the police and all school employees harmless, and you cannot sue now or later in criminal or civil court. Your call."

Next thing: invite the local gun clubs to make presentations to the class, one class at a time, fourth grade thru sixth. No ammo present. Just bring in examples of bolt actions, break actions, revolvers, semi-auto rifles and pistols, maybe a pump action or two. Teach the kids the safety rules. Show them how the various kinds of action work. Let them handle the firearms. This would go a long way toward un-demonizing firearms. Most of the kids who are fascinated by them have never actually had a chance to touch one, much less fire a few rounds.

Next thing: offer marksmanship training after school to any kids that want to learn shooting. Start this in the seventh grade. The average school system can afford to spring for a few bolt-actions and some bricks of .22 LR and run some tagets off on the copier. Let the word spread through the student body, and in six months you'll have lots of students shooting.

Next thing: Start them on high power rifle and .22 LR pistol. Start this in the tenth grade. The rifles don't need to be tack-drivers or the latest and greatest; SKS and Mosin-Nagant rifles would do. The kids might have to pay for their own ammo or at least a part of the ammo cost, but that might simply make them appreciate it more.

All of this would be optional. But do that, and a lot of kids will be much less inclined to listen to the prating of the antigun media and to take the pronouncements of the nanny-staters with a ton of salt.

As far as keeping the kids safer: do away with the concept of gun-free zones. License teachers and staff to carry concealed. Subsidize their ammo and pistols, firearms training and range time.

Not every teacher would want to carry; the nanny-staters are everywhere. But the very fact that nutjobs could not be sure which if any teachers are carrying would act as a very serious deterrent. The reason nutjobs pick on schools is because they know there will be no one there capable of stopping them for going out in their blaze of gory. Remove that factor, and you will see nutcases going elsewhere to suicide by cop.

Well, tlarkin, you asked. My solution it utterly pragmatic and totally politically incorrect. It also will work. I'm interested in results, not political correctness.
 

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It probably looked like this



Looks pretty tame to me.
 

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Those communist mind laundries turn kids into defenseless cowards. Funny after all that correctness at school, they go home and watch the Terminator on TV. How ironic.
 
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