But Lord Siddeous, is that... Legal?

Discussion in 'The Powder Keg' started by BattleRifleG3, Sep 10, 2002.

  1. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    I was wondering if it would be legal to hunt deer with an SKS in Pennsylvania, where semi-autos can't be used to hunt, if the gas piston was removed. I've heard diverse opinions on this, one of them being that it would have to be a permanent alteration. Suppose a permanently altered extra gas tube would be satisfactory?

    Then comes the more important question, is it safe? I thought of pinning a rod in the tube through the two air escape holes if I was to use my existing tube, or solder it in if it was on an extra. Or maybe I could just set the blocking rod in and make it big enough to be snug, but not so big that I couldn't remove it. If I used a rod, what material would be strong enough?
    Or maybe I could get a square rod, cut it to length, drill the end for the gas block, and lock the other end like one would the gas tube.
     
  2. Calvin

    Calvin G&G Evangelist

    Why not just buy a Mosin to hunt with? It would save you a ton of time and trouble. Not to mention the modifications you are talking about doing will cost more than a good Mosin.
    There's a saying when it comes to machine guns-Once an auto, always an auto. This means if it was registered as a full-auto, it is ALWAYS a full-auto, even if the automatic parts are taken out and made into a semi-auto only. The same applies to semi-autos.
    In other words, don't risk unnecessary trouble by hunting with an SKS if semi-autos are restricted. If it's an SKS, it's an SKS, period.:nod:
     

  3. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    Well, the cost would be nothing if I just plugged it, but I was myself thinking he might as well get a Nagant or Mauser for himself. Otherwise, I have the shotguns.
     
  4. OutlawC5

    OutlawC5 G&G Newbie

    Absolutely not, it is unlawful to use a semi-auto center-fire rifle for any kind of hunting in Pa.
     
  5. SilverRun

    SilverRun G&G Enthusiast

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    Weird law! Anyway, why not go buy something designed to hunt with. You owe it to the critter you hunt to make a clean kill.
     
  6. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    Welp, in the days since I've gone and bought myself a Mosin and Mauser. I now have four hunting-legal longarms. I now have the guns to arm a small hunting party. At the time I had just one hunting legal rifle, a 300 RUM Savage bolt gun. A couple friends and I had considered hunting together that year, but one of them had no guns. With him in mind I thought of temporarily plugging the gas system of the SKS. He has since inherited a Winchester 94 30-30 and is not bad at all with it, especially for a total beginner.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2004
  7. OutlawC5

    OutlawC5 G&G Newbie

    Out of all the kinds of firearms used to hunt whitetails in Pa, the most used is the 30-06. I have used one for years, just recently switching to a 7mm mag. Using an SKS, no matter what modifications were made would be considered, by game wardens, a semi auto centerfire rifle. First they take the gun, then they give you a ridiculous fine, then they revoke your hunting privledges for 5 years. Not worth it to try.
     
  8. TULAver

    TULAver Guest

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    I know 30-30 has been used for ages now to hunt with, but really, it and 7.62x39 are people(and paper, milk jugs, etc) killin rounds. Accuracy and penetration with both rounds are lacking(maybe not in hand loads and specialty rounds) for consistent clean kills on larger-than-human sized targets.

    Yeah you can kill deer with both, but you can just as easily wound and lose one, and I think if you're gonna go out with the intent of killing an animal for whatever reason, you OWE it to them to choose a weapon that will do it quickly and efficiently.

    Not a big fan of the normal idea of the "brush" gun, even though I am a big proponent of the stalk, as opposed to the "sit in my stand drinking beer till bambi's momma walks up to my feeder". .243, 25-06, 30-06, .308, .270 are what you need for deer. Less is too little and more is overkill. Or shotgun, 12ga does them in quite nicely if you're good enough to get close.
     
  9. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    I dunno if I'd say 243 Win is ahead of 30-30 Win.
     
  10. toolman

    toolman Resident Sasquatch Forum Contributor

    I have to agree BRG3, it is documented that more deer have been taken in Tx.with the 30-30 Win. than any other round. It isn't my first choice but I'm not at all uncomfortable using it.
     
  11. TULAver

    TULAver Guest

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    Well, you made me think a little. I'd say .243 is my minimum power/size balanced round that I'd hunt deer with. It's always done the trick for me, but then I've been shooting since I was old enough to suppourt a gun.

    Proper shot placement becomes a big deal with .243 because of the size of the bullet and the fact that expansion(in the cartridges I've shto at least) isn't as good as many others. But for accuracy and penetration, there isn't a much better, easier shooting round. I don't know if I'd hunt elk or moose with it, but then I've never hunted them in the first place so I wouldn't know what's best for them anyway.

    Everythign I've ever killed has been with one of five calibers: 12ga(mainly close work on possum and other brave varmints, and ducks a couple of times), .308(deer), .223(varmints), .22lr(squirrels, blue jays and grackels) and .243(deer, varmints, squirrels, possum). I like the versatility of the .243 and the fact that the penetration is good without leaving too nasty of an exit wound. Magnums are too destructive. If you're taking deer for food, that's a lot of wasted meat. Great for bears and larger, I'd imagine, but deer? It's almost like using .50BMG on human targets(gross overstatement, I know)

    So, with shot placement in mind, I'd say .243 is a much better choice-GIVEN that you're an experienced marksman.

    I don't know what I'd recommend for a newcomer for a deer rifle. .270 would probably be the best all around choice there. .243 would be great because of ease of shooting, but there's the shot placement, and the bigger rounds have bigger kick with them.
     
  12. TULAver

    TULAver Guest

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    Yeah, more deer been killed with 30-30 than any other round, but, as they say, even more been wounded by it. I'm not saying it's not a deadly round in the hands of a capable shooter, I'm just saying there are a lot better choices for the responsible hunter.

    edit:
    Besides, it's not fair to base comparisons on the number of animals killed with it, because the 30-30 wins that by default. With the nubmer of calibers available today, I doubt any ONE will ever surpass the 30-30 in popularity, but all of the ones I mentioned are more capable.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2004
  13. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    30-06 of course, 270 sure, 25-06 maybe, but 243? I wouldn't say it's behind a 30-30. If more deer are wounded by 30-30 than 243, I'd ascribe it to the hunter, not the cartridge.

    That said, a full power round is my choice. Most likely my first deer will fall to a 91/30 Mosin.
     
  14. TULAver

    TULAver Guest

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    .243 is pretty durn powerful. It's small, but it's .308 power behind a 20cal bullet. I will admit though, it was a couple of ladies in my family, my aunt and cousin, who put me onto the round. They varmint and hunt deer with them, and have never had any problems. My aunt has bagged a couple of really nice bucks. Bit strong, but they were pretty. Must be my dang feminine side showing through. Still, there are lots of people who hunt deer with mini14s, and .243 is a heck of a lot better than that.

    Like toolman said about 30-30, .243 is not really my first choice, but I'm confident with it. I've taken deer a couple of times with it, but for the price of the ammo it's not stellar or anything. I'd feel much better with a .308 or a nice shooting Mosin. Actually I'd feel better with any of the other calibers I listed, even though I have less experience with the .270 and .25-06.

    I doubt I'll ever hunt again with one(.243), so I'll amend my list, since I forgot the old 7.62-54. Recommendations now are
    7.62-54
    .308
    25-06
    30-06
    .270.

    Despite how I may sound, I still have a lot of affection for the 30-30. It was my first "man's" rifle and it got me through a couple of nutria hunts. I just lost my taste for it when I seen what an even older round was capable of; that is, when I got my old Mosin.

    I never hunted with it, but I probably should have. I'd put that round up against any deer killer. Right between 308 and 30-06 to me.
     
  15. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    Yes a 243 has as much powder as a 308, but that doesn't mean it's as powerful. Putting a lot of powder into a small bore wastes its share of energy in a process called throttling. Also, kinetic energy is not the only thing that matters. Heavier bullets at slower velocities have much better knockdown for their level of kinetic energy than lighter, faster rounds with the same energy. For example, 45-70 has significantly lower energy than a 308, but it would probably be a much better choice against dangerous game.
     
  16. Oakie

    Oakie Guest

    ,243 vs 30/30

    The .243 may have a smaller bullet but it packs more punch(ft/lbs) than the 30/30 . They are about equal at the muzzle but the 30/30 drops off from there. The further away the game the greater the effect the 243 will have in comparison. You also have to consider things like sectional density which is way better on the 243, giving it better penetration.

    I just watched a hunt where "Hunt of a Lifetime" took a kid elk hunting and he used a 243and killed the elk with no problem. It would not be my first choice but I would take it over a 30/30.

    Oakie

    P.S. Howdy all. This is my 1st post. Love the board
     
  17. centuryhouse

    centuryhouse Guest

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    Hi all - I'm not a hunter, so pardon my ignorance. Why would an SKS be a bad hunting rifle? And why would a state in the United States of America ban hunting with an SKS?? What business is it of the state to dicate that?

    dw
     
  18. My 2 cents-------------More deer have been killed with the 30-30 because there are millions of them(junk) out there. Remember My opinion. Never under estamate a 243 or 6MM
     
  19. toolman

    toolman Resident Sasquatch Forum Contributor

    If all we're talking about is your average whitetail, there are quite a few really good rounds. I really like the old .257 Roberts, 7mm-08, and 6.5x55 Swede. There's also the .260 Rem, etc. FWIW, I always thought the .243 would make an excellent battle round. An M-16 chambered in .243 would be worlds above the current .223 in my opinion.
     
  20. SilverRun

    SilverRun G&G Enthusiast

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    Get over it

    Couple things:

    I think the 7.62x39 round is fine for deer at close range. I think the issue is the SKS. The State does not like semi-automatic rifles apparently - this I don't understand. My issue in hunting with the SKS is that many other rifles are much better for the job - not that an SKS wouldn't kill a deer.

    As for those putting down on the 30/30, I say get over it. A .243 does shoot flatter and on paper has more energy at long range, but that does not mean that it is better than a 30/30. It simply means they were designed to do different task. The 30/30 is a great short-medium range carbine that is easy to handle and shoots well in tight cover. Compare the .243 to the 7 mag and see how that works out. That comparison would be just as ridiculous as comparing the 30/30 to the .243. Come on guys, the 30/30 has been around longer than anyone reading this - it must not be that bad. By the way, I own all the calibers/rifles I mentioned in this response. So, I am not prejudice against any of them. They each have a niche and fill their respective roles admirably. I have spoken highly of the .243 in previous post. It is good for its intended purpose.


    By the way, I agree with everything “toolmanâ€￾ said. Check out the link below for your .243 AR-15. You may have to mortgage the house, but it is available.

    http://www.armalite.com/sales/catalog/rifles/ar10a4_spr.htm

    :assult: