Discussion in 'The Powder Keg' started by bobvonb, Oct 19, 2016.

  1. bobvonb

    bobvonb G&G Evangelist

    no, not alcohol. Last weekend up on Rouse Ridge, literally on top of the mountain, my son and I in his 4-Runner got buzzed. We had noticed a Long-E-Z and another plane playing tag off to the side over Garner Valley. A few minutes later we got buzzed, back to front, by the Long-E-Z. It peeled off and I was impressed by it's performance. A few seconds later the second plane followed and also buzzed us, snap rolled 90 deg. as if to wave then peeled off. They were LOW but it's hard to judge. If I had to guess I'd say 25 or 30 ft. but as I say, hard to estimate. It was low enough we were worried it might hit a tree when it rolled. The ridge we were on was at about 5,000'.

    Fun in any case. The Long-E-Z was easy to identify, even to a non-aviator. The other was obviously a stunt plane but I don't know what type. It looked like the one in the pic with a bubble canopy.
    LongEZ.jpg stuntPlane.jpg
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  2. Very cool! I've never even heard of a Long E-Z but they're neat looking.

  3. Stickman

    Stickman Less well known member Forum Contributor

    The red one is a Vans RV-4. Great little airplane.
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    TNPIRATE Yo Ho Ho And A Bottle Of Rum Forum Contributor

    That is cool. On some weekends I can hear the buzz of an airplane. Of course I hear them all the time due to being near a small local non controlled airport.
    But it is that high whine that sounds like the motor is putting out a lot. Then I go out and start lookin in the sky. I'll spot him. My own little private airshow goin on. The pilot is doing loops, rolls, and stalls. He will stay up there a good 2 to 3 hours. Move off, and then come back and show off some more.
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  5. grizcty

    grizcty God, Guns, Glory Forum Contributor

    Way to take care of Buzzards! :D shotgunsmiley.jpg
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  6. Palladin8

    Palladin8 G&G Evangelist

    The Long EZ is the plane that John Denver went down in.
    Back in 95 my buddy and I were on a lake in Janesville, CA fishing when an F4 Phantom came screaming by us at tree top level. We nearly capsized the canoe twice. The first time is when it came streaking by and the second was when the sound hit. Those are some of the noisiest planes I have been around.
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  7. bobvonb

    bobvonb G&G Evangelist

    when I moved to the desert they were still flying Phantoms at George AFB. The called them machines that turned jet fuel into noise.
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  8. Stickman

    Stickman Less well known member Forum Contributor

    I watched a Youtube video of a couple of sailplanes soaring in ridge lift in California a while back. The SJWs filming were gushing in their enthusiasm to turn them in to the FAA.

  9. 870shooter1

    870shooter1 G&G Evangelist

    Years ago,the F4 flew out of DMAFB, and our big deal was to watch them fly around sunset! Nothing like seeing flame out the back almost as long as the fuselage!

    Had an old F4 jockey tell me one time while in hunt camp, "The F4 is living proof that man can fly a barn door if he just straps enough horsepower to it.". That still give me a chuckle years later!
  10. TXplt

    TXplt Gun Toting Boeing Driver Forum Contributor

    Glad you enjoyed the show ! Pretty cool and thanks for the pics.

    We did most of our low levels stateside at around 300' but in AORs sometimes it was 'safe and reasonable altitude' until SPINS directed altitude blocks due threats in the active areas (mostly to get out of the AAA threat and to a lesser extent deconfliction). In order to get under some types of radar SAMs you need to be quite low (but this then puts you into the AAA envelope). In particular during Operation Provide Comfort we sometimes were around 50-100 feet (the mirages operated here too). This let the Kurds know we were there and to help, and let the BGs know this too.

    That is pretty low (and loud when moving fast.

    The F-111 terrain following radar would take you down to 200' (the F-15 E would do 100 but encountered restrictive bank limits when so doing)--following the terrain at night or in instrument conditions. We were peacetime usually restricted to 400' but that's still pretty low when you can't see the ground. We'd usually be hand flying daylight when weather permitted except when testing the Auto TF out or training to it. In the F-15E we would deliver tosses sometimes where you'd ingress on Auto TF, pull up for delivery, roll to around 135 degrees of bank or so to get the nose back down, and give it back to the TFs.

    This could be disorienting at night !

    I do remember seeing a lone house on a rock in a lake flying OV-10s years ago west of Little Rock. We went in for a 'closer' look and got quite close due to the uniqueness of the setup. On first pass we saw a couple having breakfast outside and decided to have another look (part of FACs job was to find stuff after all). Second pass was "Was that a video camera (they were big things in those days and not many people had them) ?"

    Now a prudent individual would probably just move on. But we were young and imprudent and had to have another look. So we did.

    "'s a video camera......"

    They did call the base (we were TDY to KLIT). We tried to blame it on the C-130s (they had props too) but the individual calling was quite clear it had been an OV-10 and even gave the tail number (which meant we were probably a lot closer in that they were small subdued numbers on the tail not the big N-numbers you see on civil aircraft).

    But nothing really ever came of it except the liaison to our TDY (who was a junior officer and fellow fighter guy as well) said not to do it again--or at least pick a different house next time.

    An F-111 (a big airplane for a 'fighter') looks really low when doing the speed of heat at a few hundred feet. Judging airplane height is difficult and many folks underestimate altitude when it seems lower than normal. BUT when working some A 10s in DS 1 (practicing for the upcoming Gulf War) they crossed our plateau VERY low--you know it's REALLY low when you are used to working airplanes and you hit the deck as they go over top of you.

    Sound of freedom.
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2016
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  11. Palladin8

    Palladin8 G&G Evangelist

    When I was stationed in Korea we would be tasked with pulling duty up on Suwon Korean AFB. There was an ADA Battery there and we were responsible for the LEO. Our make shift MP station was about halfway down the runway and the only thing that separated us from the runways was a small grass field. At the time the South Koreans were still flying the F4 Phantoms. When those things would take off, everything on the desk would literally dance across the desk in the same direction they were going. If you were on the phone forget about having any type of conversation. At dusk it was fun to watch them take off with the afterburners going.
    I think the only other plane that came close to beating them for the noise was the Harrier. Those things are incredibly loud as well.
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  12. blue fox

    blue fox G&G Evangelist

    Black or even green duct tape would have fixed those tail numbers. Voice of experience from Germany for flying over nudist camps in choppers.
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  13. Junction15

    Junction15 G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

    Over the years, we have been buzzed by several different types of aircraft while tent camping in northern Maine. Loring AFB was active back then as well as Vermont ANG, and early on Pease AFB was still active so we had no idea where they came from.
    The first fly over was an F4 at Moosehead Lake. Treetop level and right over the tent. I swear you could see the rivets in the belly. And those trees were second growth and only about 20 feet tall.
    We had some F16's "visit us several time at that same spot.
    The most spectacular though was over 2nd Roach Pond. I think we were being used as "targets" on that camping trip. We were cooking supper before sundown and we could hear the roar. Then 2 F16's, one just a little ahead of the other, rounded Big Spencer Mountain and headed right across 2nd Roach. They were low enough that we could see a wake of water and they headed straight for us. As they got to our side they lifted just over the treetops and disappeared behind Trout Mountain. About 30 minutes later they did it again. I could not believe how low they were flying over the water as they approached us. My sister got a few pics but it rattled her so much that she only got one good shot.
    That night, we had one of the worst thunderstorms I have ever been in. Lightening was striking a small island about 50 yards off shore and striking the water between us and the island. But no one dared to go get in the trucks.
    Next morning at first light, our F16s were back with 2 more of their friends. We were buzzed several more times by all 4 of them. On the last pass, i think one of them must have lit the afterburner after he got to Trout Mountain. They were loud before but that was deafening.
    Well the ladies decided enough was enough, so we broke camp and headed over to the West Branch Penobscot River and camped at the Roll Dam site.
    So guess what? No more F16's but now we had B52's flying over us going into Loring. But at least they were higher up so not so loud.
    I recall reading of a complaint in the Bangor newspaper about Air Force jets flying too low. The official response was that they never fly below 500 feet. Uh huh. I know I could have tossed an apple in the air and hit one. And if they had gone any lower over the water, we would have gone up in the same fireball.
    But I thought it was pretty cool. Very impressive.
    Haven't seen any more of that since Loring shut down.
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  14. 63B20

    63B20 G&G Evangelist

    Is that 500' above sea level or 500' above Terrain?
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  15. texnmidwest

    texnmidwest Sir Loin of Beef Forum Contributor

    Growing up in Corpus Christi Texas it was not unusual for us to be out fishing in the Laguna Madre and have a T-28 do strafing runs on our boat. They would not get too low but it was fun to know we were helping train young intrepid pilots! I sure miss the drone of those big radial engines! Especially after cable came to town so the TV reception was not effected!
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  16. TXplt

    TXplt Gun Toting Boeing Driver Forum Contributor

    AGL--above ground level. The FAA rule is 500' from man made stuff in other than congested areas (where it's 1000' above the highest object within a 2000' radius). At the time for training limits we were cleared to 300' with some units down to 100' (which is where you kinda need to be--or a wee bit lower--to defeat some 3rd and 4th generation radar/TVM threats depending on type and terrain). Some weapons deliveries were lower--we did 200' levels on the range sometimes.

    "Flat world" line of sight (due earth curvature) is 22 Nautical Miles at 200' (which is quite a bit). As you get lower this obviously goes down (as it does if there's intervening terrain which helps you terrain mask). One of the reasons attacking boats gives most fighter pilots the willies. There's no where to hide even if you're ridiculously low. And they're VERY well defended.

    It's not an exact science though. If you were on the TFs they would try to average things out as not to violate the set clearance plane (which on the F-111 could go to 200'). It used a combination of forward looking radar as well as a radar altimeter and other sensors and would try to maintain the height without undershooting it (an 83% violation--where the TFs went more than 17% below the SCP, was a reportable and kind of a big deal although I never saw this happen--the internal systems would usually generate a fly-up before it did). We could also later fly on NVGs and/or TF's FLIR in the F-15E but I can't remember the lower (night) altitude limits on NVGs alone.

    Hand flying was obviously +/- a bit (we'd TF in weather or night, I'd usually hand fly to the max extent possible in day VMC except when doing TF training). In the older days the lowalt limits were loosely enforced. Not so now. Lowalt flying is a great deal of fun but obviously demands quite a bit of attention when doing 540 knots or in some cases more.
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  17. 63B20

    63B20 G&G Evangelist

    I know but what was it at the time of the buzz? O I forgot they never brake the reg do they:)
  18. blaster

    blaster G&G Evangelist

    fishing offshore West of Key West we often got "attacked" by Navy jets. if you saw them coming it was cool to watch, if you didn't know they were there until you heard the roar, it would scare the crap out of you! sometimes if we weren't actively working and saw one coming , we would go to battle stations and pretend to defend ourselves by swinging the trap davit or other deck machinery like an AA gun at them. (glad it wasn't for real because we most likely would be blown out of the water!) they came in low & fast! if there were other vessels in the area, they would also be attacked. it was great sport and relieved the monotony of weeks at sea.
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  19. Junction15

    Junction15 G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

    I presumed the altitude limit was AGL like TxPlt said. But we figured the military was playing with definitions a little. Google Earth shows the water at the spot we camped at as 1268' elevation.

    All I know is that the campsite on 2nd Roach was elevated about 10 or 15 above the water. As those jets were coming across the water we seemed to be almost eye to eye with the pilots. And the weirdest part was that on the approach to our camp, there was almost no sound from them until they were almost on us. Just a weird "rushing" noise that seemed to come from every direction. Then "baaaaaAAAVOOOM" as they went past and gained altitude over the mountain behind us. It was cool. I would not want that over my house everyday but that was fun to watch.

    I know of other folks around here that had similar experiences. Same thoughts on it. Pretty cool to watch and kinda interesting to "help" with pilot training. The only ones that would have complained are the "granola's" - and they actually stuff their poop into plastic bags to pack it out.
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  20. ACfixer

    ACfixer Global Warming Enthusiast Forum Contributor

    Do you want to go up in my Piper Challenger Bob? Give me a call, I'll take you flying buddy. I flew over your house twice today. ;)
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